[QUOTE=Jhein12;8111491]
At least in my area, you can tell which cats are feral and which are people’s pets.[/QUOTE]
How?
Truly curious how one for sure tells the difference between a feral cat and any other cat, since so many are saying it is so easy.
And no, I am not supporting what the woman did. I am just amused by the insistence that it is so easy to tell a feral cat from a roaming pet.
I have a barn cat and also have a feral that shows up from time to time. In this case, it is super easy to tell them apart, even if you have never seen them before. One looks well cared for and one does not. One runs off the instant you make a move and one will let you approach him and pet him.
[QUOTE=Coyoteco;8114087]
Actually, both points made are incorrect.
First, the statement you condemn doesn’t attempt to equate the conduct, but discusses the ridiculous argument that someone should be above prosecution or have seriously illegal conduct excused because he/she is valuable to society in other ways. The point was very well made by the poster of that example.
Second, yes people would care if she did the same thing to a raccoon. I know in the town near me someone killed a raccoon by beating it to death and he was prosecuted for animal cruelty.
The photo was considered sick because of the manner of torture and death inflicted on the harmless animal.
eta: There actually are protocols for euthanasia. Shooting a cat with an arrow does not qualify as “euthanasia”. There has been a perversion of the word for its true definition, but even with the most lax definition/usage, the legal protocols were not met here. You can’t kill an animal in a cruel manner and meet the legal requirements for “euthanasia”.[/QUOTE]
Uh, shooting an animal with an arrow is hardly ‘cruel’ or abusive.
Unlike beating it to death.
Yes, some people get offended. But some people gt offended at everything others do, regardless, so that can hardly be the measure of things.
Shooting an animal with a bow and arrow is one thing.
Shooting what appears to be somebody’s pet is another.
And putting it in this manner on FB, well, that’s stupid, but not criminal (and violates FB’s TOS rules)
I don’t think the animal had been caught in a trap, the leg seems to be hidden behind leaves and branches. Somebody mentioned the cat might not have been dead, which would be a concern. A Vet ought to know the difference.
But we are entering an era of legal prosecution fueled by public outrage, not letter of the law, and that I find troubling!
And it is not just this case, but a great deal of others, some where the public OUTRAGE is clearly misplaced.
Now, mind you, I don’t now this woman from Adam’s dog, and I have to say her picture is less than favorable to me, and that is without looking at the cat nor her comment (which are a whole nother story).
Maybe she needs to consider a stint abroad, removed from first world problems.
Although, ideology driven organizations might frown upon the conduct displayed on FB like this…
[QUOTE=Coyoteco;8114087]
First, the statement you condemn doesn’t attempt to equate the conduct, but discusses the ridiculous argument that someone should be above prosecution or have seriously illegal conduct excused because he/she is valuable to society in other ways. The point was very well made by the poster of that example.
Second, yes people would care if she did the same thing to a raccoon. I know in the town near me someone killed a raccoon by beating it to death and he was prosecuted for animal cruelty.
The photo was considered sick because of the manner of torture and death inflicted on the harmless animal.
eta: There actually are protocols for euthanasia. Shooting a cat with an arrow does not qualify as “euthanasia”. There has been a perversion of the word for its true definition, but even with the most lax definition/usage, the legal protocols were not met here. You can’t kill an animal in a cruel manner and meet the legal requirements for “euthanasia”.[/QUOTE]
I never argued that she should be above prosecution. I was simply responding to those who think she should be consigned to working menial jobs for the rest of her life based on - sea of conjecture aside - a single insensitive statement and disturbing photo.
I also wasn’t equating the manner in which she killed the cat with a medical euthanasia. I was merely pointing out that a cat’s owners in either situation could claim that the vet violated Texas’ general statutes, given that there was no consent given for the cat to be disposed of.
As far as telling feral and pet cats apart … my barn cat is very sweet and personable around people she knows, but will flee from a stranger. Very similar to the actual ferals who live around my workplace, who appear to be in good weight with shiny coats.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8114158]
Uh, shooting an animal with an arrow is hardly ‘cruel’ or abusive.
Unlike beating it to death.
Yes, some people get offended. But some people gt offended at everything others do, regardless, so that can hardly be the measure of things.
Shooting an animal with a bow and arrow is one thing.
Shooting what appears to be somebody’s pet is another.
And putting it in this manner on FB, well, that’s stupid, but not criminal (and violates FB’s TOS rules)
I don’t think the animal had been caught in a trap, the leg seems to be hidden behind leaves and branches. Somebody mentioned the cat might not have been dead, which would be a concern. A Vet ought to know the difference.
But we are entering an era of legal prosecution fueled by public outrage, not letter of the law, and that I find troubling!
And it is not just this case, but a great deal of others, some where the public OUTRAGE is clearly misplaced.
Now, mind you, I don’t now this woman from Adam’s dog, and I have to say her picture is less than favorable to me, and that is without looking at the cat nor her comment (which are a whole nother story).
Maybe she needs to consider a stint abroad, removed from first world problems.
Although, ideology driven organizations might frown upon the conduct displayed on FB like this…[/QUOTE] What she did was a crime by Texas state law whether the cat was a pet or not. So she did commit a crime. She has an advanced degree and works with animals, so should be aware of the cruelty laws in her state. She exhibited a behavior that shows she felt she was above any repercussions. (the I’m too awesome statement) It’s been veterinarians who have pointed out the cat in the picture wasn’t dead. So that’s kind of expert witness and I don’t think she cared if Tiger was dead yet or not. So at least callous if not actually cruel.
Personally I would like to see her license pulled, her diploma yanked (yes they can do that), some jail time and then she can try to find a job. Perhaps something more suited to her temperament like a hunting guide back in Wyoming. Though if they hit her with felony charges she won’t be able to own a weapon. Guess she should have thought about that.
What is frustrating to most people is how slow the sheriff’s office is moving, giving her plenty of time to trash her hard drive, brick her phone, dig up and incinerate the cat (if indeed she buried it and didn’t just throw it out) and basically destroy evidence. Hopefully the Facebook servers will contain what is needed.
[QUOTE=Scaramouch;8113928]
If it had been a raccoon, NO ONE would care. The picture she posted is only considered “sick” because we have a rather arbitrary affection for cats as a species.
If the cat had been hit by a car but not fatally, do you really think she’d have been charged for euthing it without the owner’s consent?[/QUOTE]
The cat wasn’t euthanized. In fact I’d agree with the other vet professionals that it wasn’t even dead in the photo, as the legs should be limp and hanging, not in various positions of raised/curling. A vet should never take pleasure in euthanizing any animal, no matter the species. I would lose all respect for ANY vet that boasted about euthanizing an animal, and especially so for one who took photos with the deceased animal bragging about being “vet of the year.”
Add to the disgusting bragging about how she’s too good to fire when she can’t even tell the poor cat isn’t dead? F’N moron deserves to lose the license she never deserved in the first place. She certainly didn’t mean that oath she took, to protect animals from suffering. And please note, I as well as plenty of vets/techs are actual hunters. We hunt wildlife, in season, for food. We do our best to kill with the first shot, to prevent any suffering and the first thing we do upon reaching the animal is to ensure it is 100% gone. Being a vet doesn’t mean you can’t be a god hunter, but this woman is neither. She’s a disgusting narcissist and a blemish on our profession and society as a whole.
[QUOTE=Paks;8114200]
What she did was a crime by Texas state law whether the cat was a pet or not. So she did commit a crime. She has an advanced degree and works with animals, so should be aware of the cruelty laws in her state. She exhibited a behavior that shows she felt she was above any repercussions. (the I’m too awesome statement) It’s been veterinarians who have pointed out the cat in the picture wasn’t dead. So that’s kind of expert witness and I don’t think she cared if Tiger was dead yet or not. So at least callous if not actually cruel.
Personally I would like to see her license pulled, her diploma yanked (yes they can do that), some jail time and then she can try to find a job. Perhaps something more suited to her temperament like a hunting guide back in Wyoming. Though if they hit her with felony charges she won’t be able to own a weapon. Guess she should have thought about that.
What is frustrating to most people is how slow the sheriff’s office is moving, giving her plenty of time to trash her hard drive, brick her phone, dig up and incinerate the cat (if indeed she buried it and didn’t just throw it out) and basically destroy evidence. Hopefully the Facebook servers will contain what is needed.[/QUOTE]
Yes, in most states this would be a felony. I’ll just agree with this post and use it as my response to AlaGirl.
[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8114257]
The cat wasn’t euthanized. In fact I’d agree with the other vet professionals that it wasn’t even dead in the photo, as the legs should be limp and hanging, not in various positions of raised/curling. A vet should never take pleasure in euthanizing any animal, no matter the species. I would lose all respect for ANY vet that boasted about euthanizing an animal, and especially so for one who took photos with the deceased animal bragging about being “vet of the year.”
Add to the disgusting bragging about how she’s too good to fire when she can’t even tell the poor cat isn’t dead? F’N moron deserves to lose the license she never deserved in the first place. She certainly didn’t mean that oath she took, to protect animals from suffering. And please note, I as well as plenty of vets/techs are actual hunters. We hunt wildlife, in season, for food. We do our best to kill with the first shot, to prevent any suffering and the first thing we do upon reaching the animal is to ensure it is 100% gone. Being a vet doesn’t mean you can’t be a god hunter, but this woman is neither. She’s a disgusting narcissist and a blemish on our profession and society as a whole.[/QUOTE]
And, I agree with this.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8114158]
Uh, shooting an animal with an arrow is hardly ‘cruel’ or abusive.
Unlike beating it to death.
Yes, some people get offended. But some people gt offended at everything others do, regardless, so that can hardly be the measure of things.
Shooting an animal with a bow and arrow is one thing.
Shooting what appears to be somebody’s pet is another.
And putting it in this manner on FB, well, that’s stupid, but not criminal (and violates FB’s TOS rules)
I don’t think the animal had been caught in a trap, the leg seems to be hidden behind leaves and branches. Somebody mentioned the cat might not have been dead, which would be a concern. A Vet ought to know the difference.
But we are entering an era of legal prosecution fueled by public outrage, not letter of the law, and that I find troubling!
And it is not just this case, but a great deal of others, some where the public OUTRAGE is clearly misplaced.
Now, mind you, I don’t now this woman from Adam’s dog, and I have to say her picture is less than favorable to me, and that is without looking at the cat nor her comment (which are a whole nother story).
Maybe she needs to consider a stint abroad, removed from first world problems.
Although, ideology driven organizations might frown upon the conduct displayed on FB like this…[/QUOTE]
And, I was very careful to say that she should be prosecuted and then, when convicted for animal cruelty type of crime, she would go before the licensing board where the conviction would grounds for revocation of her licensing.
So, whereas I would agree with your sentiment that it is the letter of the law, and not the level of public outrage that should determine prosecution, that is not a valid argument in this situation. In most states it is illegal to shoot cats. In Texas it is a felony. Now public outrage or certain legal actions certainly can be invoked to pressure a state or local government agency that refuses to do its job.
I was one of those people who spoke out about the ugly truth in necessary elimination of predatory domestic animals (dogs.) You’ll read in that thread as well, about the many times that a dog was removed from the property unharmed. I have worked with canines my entire life, and there is a massive difference between someone’s pets having a playful chase of my goats and slinks away with a guilty expression when caught, or even runs up to ask me to join the game and a dog turned predator and dangerous. I have never shot a dog that could be safely removed.
I have never felt the need to dispose of a cat in a similar method, feral or not. Even feral cats cannot harm my stock - anything small enough for them to be interested in should be properly housed to prevent predatory attack. They can carry disease, and if there is a feral hanging around, the traps come out.
It makes me sick to my stomach every time I had to put down a dangerous animal (thankfully something I may not have to repeat very often if at all, at least in the foreseeable future) and it was a last resort. There are entirely too many other ways to deal with feral or stray cats.
I’m sure there’s folks on here who think I am foul because I have shot dogs to protect my own beloved pets and livestock, but I am secure in what I have done - and what I will not do. Using a bow and arrow on a cat caught in a leg trap is something that would never cross my mind in any fashion.
[QUOTE=inca;8114146]
I have a barn cat and also have a feral that shows up from time to time. In this case, it is super easy to tell them apart, even if you have never seen them before. One looks well cared for and one does not. One runs off the instant you make a move and one will let you approach him and pet him.[/QUOTE]
I asked the question because my experience is like what Scaramouch posted.
[QUOTE=Scaramouch;8114165]
As far as telling feral and pet cats apart … my barn cat is very sweet and personable around people she knows, but will flee from a stranger. Very similar to the actual ferals who live around my workplace, who appear to be in good weight with shiny coats.[/QUOTE]
The feral cats in my neck of the woods are mainly in good weight with a nice coat. There is the exception from time to time but I doubt you (general you who say they are easily identifiable) would scream feral looking at a healthy cat wandering around a field.
By barn cats were previously feral. Also fat and shiny and friendly with me but would not stand there and let you come near it.
My barn cats and random ferals are not rarely seen sitting next to each other outside the barn.
I helped treat an incredibly sweet cat who was caught in a leg trap a couple years ago. I cannot find the photos of his foot when he presented to us, but essentially all of his toes save for the dew claw and “pinky toe” were removed, some still had dead pieces of bone totally exposed. The poor cat had been missing for a coupe days and came home like this. The owners were Hispanic immigrants who were limited on funds but huge in heart, it was obvious how much they loved this cat. We fixed the foot as best we could (at cost) and used donated antibiotics and pain meds for the poor guy. A few days later our suspicions were confirmed about how that poor cat lost his toes when the male owner came in crying holding a plastic bin. Inside that bin was a cinder block with a steel jaw trap attached, the remaining portion of that sweet baby’s foot still clamped in the jaws. It was one of the most sickening things I have ever seen and to think that a VET of all people could think a trap like that was appropriate to set is absolutely nauseating.
For anyone who is interested, the photos of the trap and now healed cat are here.
http://s137.photobucket.com/user/horsegal984/library/Sharing
[QUOTE=Coyoteco;8114281]
And, I was very careful to say that she should be prosecuted and then, when convicted for animal cruelty type of crime, she would go before the licensing board where the conviction would grounds for revocation of her licensing.
So, whereas I would agree with your sentiment that it is the letter of the law, and not the level of public outrage that should determine prosecution, that is not a valid argument in this situation. In most states it is illegal to shoot cats. In Texas it is a felony. Now public outrage or certain legal actions certainly can be invoked to pressure a state or local government agency that refuses to do its job.[/QUOTE]Exactly and believe me if one of the findings is there was nothing on her hard drive or her mother’s camera/phone so they couldn’t prosecute, I’ll scream.
I hope the couple who lost Tiger pursues civil charges regardless of how the sheriff’s investigation comes out. As OJ proved, just because your innocent in criminal court doesn’t mean your innocent in civil court.
Five years ago, we lost a barn cat to a leg hold trap that an Amish kid set up in the woods near our place - not our property.
He came looking for his trap, happened to be the day after we had to have her put to sleep after a week long battle trying to save her.
He did not get his trap back.
When I was a little kid, a man rented a house two houses down from us. Our cat happened to walk across his lawn - he admitted to the sheriff later that it was just the edge of the lawn- and he shot my cat with a rifle.
He knew he was a pet. He did it anyway.
I was very little. My cat came up the stairs of the front porch where I was playing, dropped down next to me, and died.
So let’s just say I’ve ZERO sympathy for this b**ch. ZERO.
In our area, there are no services whatsoever for stray/feral/injured cats. None.
And there are lots of people who think “it’s just a cat”.
So people dump cats, and they breed, and people are incredibly cruel to them - like this POS - and the excuse is, “it’s just a cat, or it’s just a barn cat., or it’s just a feral cat”…
If I see a stray or a feral comes onto my property - though most of the time, it’s people dumping cats - I will try to trap right away. Then I will at least get the cat fixed, and basic shots.
I’ve had some that we did this with who we never saw again, and many who… stayed.
Either way, at least we are trying to help them.
I find this attitude infuriating. I am actually glad to see so many people outraged over this little cat - I hope that piece of garbage loses her license, at the least.
[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8114380]
I helped treat an incredibly sweet cat who was caught in a leg trap a couple years ago. I cannot find the photos of his foot when he presented to us, but essentially all of his toes save for the dew claw and “pinky toe” were removed, some still had dead pieces of bone totally exposed. The poor cat had been missing for a coupe days and came home like this. The owners were Hispanic immigrants who were limited on funds but huge in heart, it was obvious how much they loved this cat. We fixed the foot as best we could (at cost) and used donated antibiotics and pain meds for the poor guy. A few days later our suspicions were confirmed about how that poor cat lost his toes when the male owner came in crying holding a plastic bin. Inside that bin was a cinder block with a steel jaw trap attached, the remaining portion of that sweet baby’s foot still clamped in the jaws. It was one of the most sickening things I have ever seen and to think that a VET of all people could think a trap like that was appropriate to set is absolutely nauseating.
For anyone who is interested, the photos of the trap and now healed cat are here.
http://s137.photobucket.com/user/horsegal984/library/Sharing[/QUOTE]
Thank you for what you did for that cat and his family. 
I honestly wonder if she has something wrong with her brain – I mean, this is so beyond me how she could boast about her killing and how great she is. I don’t want to make excuses for her, but for her to have been admitted to a vet school, went through training, and graduated, the question still nags at me “where did it go wrong?” Was she always a sociopath who was hiding her true feelings, or does she have a brain tumor or parasite or something?
It’s so sad…that poor cat and those poor people.
[QUOTE=Pancakes;8114547]
I honestly wonder if she has something wrong with her brain – I mean, this is so beyond me how she could boast about her killing and how great she is. I don’t want to make excuses for her, but for her to have been admitted to a vet school, went through training, and graduated, the question still nags at me “where did it go wrong?” Was she always a sociopath who was hiding her true feelings, or does she have a brain tumor or parasite or something?
It’s so sad…that poor cat and those poor people.[/QUOTE]
Read up both about sociopaths and narcissistic borderline personality disorder. Both are master manipulators and consummate liars. But yes you would think someone at the school or in her classes would have caught what was going on and most likely they did but didn’t feel it was their place to do anything. The most most evil phrase in the English language in my opinion is “I thought there was something wrong but didn’t think it was my place to do anything about it.” That phrase causes untold damage and tragedy.
Hopefully this is a reliable source
https://www.facebook.com/JusticeforTiger/posts/879428172119167
"Texas State Board of medical examiners are meeting right now to discuss an emergency suspension of Kristen Lindsey license, for killing a pet cat with a bow and arrow…They are discussing suspension, revoking of her license,fines,penalties and disciplinary action. It Is likely, they will temporarily suspend her while the police finish their investigation and then make a decision based on that. "
I corrected some grammar errors in the post when I quoted.
[QUOTE=twelvegates;8113543]
NP inca
I hope she is able to resurrect her career somehow. It sounds like she was a very competent equine vet, and we can’t have too many of them around.
She isn’t the first person to make a horrible career mistake and certainly won’t be the last.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps she could consider a career in gross pathology, where she only has to handle dead things.
[ Originally Posted by Scaramouch [IMG]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png)
If it had been a raccoon, NO ONE would care. The picture she posted is only considered “sick” because we have a rather arbitrary affection for cats as a species.
[QUOTE=talkofthetown;8113935]
Yep…[/QUOTE]
I’ve had to dispatch rabid coons and skunks.
I take no particular pleasure in doing so, nor do I have the slightest urge to post photos illustrating my prowess to the interwebz.
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