The new Stübbens did catch my eye, since I’m a Stübben fan already. I read somewhere that they are described as “men’s saddles” since the stirrup bars are far forward and place the pelvis in a position that is, apparently, not comfortable for many women. I was surprised to read that since I find them amazingly comfortable. But then again, I might be a dinosaur since I love older saddles and harder seats… Stübben has great saddle-making videos on Youtube that I watch when trying to wind down from the Corona news.
Anyone here with Pariani experience? I will get it sometime this coming week, and from the look of it, it’s the oldest one of the bunch. But my friend’s friend who is sending it said that it is the best saddle she ever owned. She’s a hunter/jumper.
i had a much loved 90’s Passier that was unfortunately stolen. Never found one again that was so comfortable
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I expect all older saddles were traditionally built to fit men.
There are some new high priced saddles that claim to be “women’s saddles” but honestly there is so much variation in women’s bodies that I don’t give this much credence.
I find forward stirrup bars and slouching around in a chair seat like I’m riding western or bareback to be extremely comfortable and how my body likes to sit 
just not good for my equitation!!!
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I had a Pariani jumping saddle around 43 years ago or so. I ride Forward Seat, I only had a Stubben Siegfried, and I DREAMED of having a Pariani. I saved up my money and ordered it through my local saddler.
It was not perfect for me, but better than the Siegfried. I fit 17" saddles the best, so that is what I ordered (and the saddler I went through agreed with me on that.)
BUT I was swimming around in it even though it supposedly “fit” me by the palm of my hand between my butt and the end of the cantle method. Then I finally got to be a residential student at a Forward Seat riding school and the general concensus of the ladies was that the saddle did not fit me (too large) and I needed to change saddles. I had distressing problems with getting left behind when jumping, and it was HARD for me to get into proper position.
The lady running that riding school told me that she found that the Pariani saddles worked better for men than they did for women.
I got back home from school, traded my Pariani for a 17" Crosby Wide Front PDN which really did fit me.
Two weeks later a male rider eagerly bought the Pariani I traded in although they were practically unknown in my area (NC).
Moral of the story–make sure the saddle fits you well. If your riding teacher starts to hem and haw take them seriously. It broke my heart to trade it in because it was the most beautiful jumping saddle I had ever seen with really nice leather and workmanship. Decades later I sometimes wonder if I would have done better to get a 16" or 16 1/2" Pariani.
Warning–back then (1975) people warned about the trees being weak and easily broken (mine stayed good), I think the company may have fixed that but I am not sure.
I hope the one you look at really fits you. They are so beautiful to look at!
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Sorry to hear that. Stolen! What model was it?
Hahaha, how true. In dressage, Schleese saddles are supposed to place you in a more female-friendly pelvis position, but I have never had a chance to try one. And then, I believe, one would have to try several different saddles on the same horse in the same day or week to really tell the difference. Which is what I look forward to doing with the four. The seat width of the Hermès Steinkraus is tiny. It reminds me of racing exercise saddles: FAST LOOKING. Built for speed and action. I’ll take photos after I give it a good cleaning.
That’s a great Pariani story, thanks for sharing! Yes, fit (=balance) is immensely important. Do you have any photos of your Pariani? I’m also a 17" seat, and the only saddles I have ever sat in that were way, way too big, all around, were Western saddles. I also find them to be unbelievably heavy.
The brand-new Pariani saddles that I glanced on their website this week are hyper-stylish. Always multi-colored (to the point of teetering on garish) and quite fat/bulky. But surely truly scrumptious in the finest materials and craftsmanship…
The old Pariani saddles from the original maker are beloved by their owners, certainly worth a try!
They do have extremely flexible trees, hence the ‘easily broken tree’ reputation. If you flex an old Pariani it will practically fold in half…but if you drop the panels and take a look, the tree is fine.
The company name was aquired and Parianis are now made by a different company. People I know who have gotten a new ones, hoping to replicate the feel of the original, have been disappointed. This is not to say the new ones aren’t nice saddles (I haven’t seen one), but they aren’t the same as the originals.
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HDR is actually the abbreviation for Henri de Rivel but many ads use just HDR.
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I do not have a photo of my old Pariani saddle.
The flaps were solid, one piece of leather, no outside knee roll suede or anything, and the flap leather was molded over the knee rolls underneath. The saddle was one color all over.
It was beautiful, I sort of think that it looked “sexy” with the smooth curve of the front part of the flap and the way that was balanced by the height of the cantle. I LOVED looking at that saddle, on or off the horse.
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Schleese has excellent marketing. Observing barn mates getting these saddles I am not convinced their reps can always follow through fitting horse or rider.
As far as saddle balance I’ve had some interesting experiences this year using a 6 pocket shim on a horse that has old lady back.
With the same saddle, a relatively small change in shim could make the difference between tipping forward and being stable, and also between bumping the pommel or not.
I was really trying to fine-tune my position on this horse for dressage and discovered how much difference let’s say a centimeter of stuffing could make in my video evidence
My own horse has a big barrel and my flaw with her tends to chair seat but the saddles I use on her have excellent fit for both of us.
My guess is the balance and twist of the particular saddle matter more than whether it’s for men or women. A saddle that doesn’t fit the horse can be uncomfortable for the rider.
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Sort of a side note, I went and looked at the present day Pariani site, and the saddles looked like many other saddles. I felt no overwhelming urge to buy one, and many of them just looked ugly, I would not be standing in a tack room admiring the saddle.
Back over 40 years ago the Pariani saddles looked DIFFERENT from the general run of saddles. In the pictures of the modern day Parianis I did not see one with the absolutely marvelous molded plain leather flap which I loved so much. Once I got the leather broken in those plain flaps would mold themselves to my knee, making a little pocket. As I would change the length of the leathers after a while it would mold itself to my knee again. SO much better than the modern day fad of calf-skin covered leather which I find to be so darn slippery with that irritating seam where the knee padding is attached to the saddle flap.
I also looked at some of the old ones on Ebay. Yup, I soaped and oiled a saddle that looked just like that in every detail under the lovely plain flap. Unfortunately they would NOT fit the two horses I ride currently, and I doubt they would fit the other horses that I might ride in the future.
Though if I ever had enough extra money I might buy one, put it on a saddle rack in my bedroom and feast my eyes on the beauty of that saddle!
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I’ve always been a fan of the older Stubbens. My childhood (1970s) saddle was a Siegfried and I loved it. Alas when I came back to riding as an adult, the 16 1/2 was too small for 5’9" me. I wasn’t jumping much anymore and ended up with the Tristan dressage model I have today, 17 1/2. It is built o the same tree as the Siegfried IIRC. I don’t find them hard. I like the firmness and the freedom to find my best position.
Both my kids rode in my childhood saddle as they grew up and did well with it. DD, who is built much like me, had a very nice position in it. DS tended to ride a bit more in a chair seat (both on the same honey at different times), but I suspect it may have been a bit of a guy/boy thing. I also had a Balance International Zenith and he sat similarly in that when he rode my TB.
Some of my friends have had Schleeses. I don’t care for their very deep seat. I feel constricted and locked in rather than having the freedom of movement that I have with my Stubben. Many of them eventually traded in their Schleese for various other brands.
I’ve used my Stubbens on a number of different horses and they seem to fit many shapes reasonably well. Also, with the wool flocking, as you probably know, it’s easy to make a certain amount of fit changes.
Good luck. It’s nice to have multiple choices to try at the same time. Saddle fitting can be such a hair pulling experience.
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Oh YES, that looks exactly like my former Pariani jumping saddle.
You are one lucky lady. I really hope it works well for you when you ride your horse with it!
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Thanks. It is a joy to look at it, isn’t it?? So classy and sleek and balanced. Let’s see how it goes with my horse and my butt, ha. If I get the green light from our saddle fitter, I will have to find a bigger pad for underneath. The sheepskin halfpad in-between will be useful.
I rode in a Courbette Stylist in the 90s, mostly because it was one of the few that came with an extra forward flap back then for my very long legs. I sold it because it was like riding on a rock. Another thing about many of these saddles is that they have a very narrow gullet compared to today’s saddles. Curious as to why you are looking at only vintage jump saddles?
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The Courbette Merkur arrived and looks stunning. The gullet is three fingers wide. I will wait for the saddle fitter to take a close look at it and then post more, but meanwhile: why vintage saddles? I love them, their quality, their minimal feel, and they usually suit my seat and mind. I got two of the four saddles through friends (who know me well) and am probably using this search as a perfect distraction from social distancing, sigh. The new saddles don’t speak to me as loudly and clearly as the older ones… if that makes any sense. Same with vintage cars, I just love them more than new cars.
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Yea I really miss the simplicity of the old cars so I understand what you mean. I will say that I do wish I had kept the Courbette. It was a very sturdy saddle and held up well. My current Black Country is no frills, no big blocks or bling; just a little softer seat. Best of luck, I hope you find what you are looking for!
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I also love the older saddles, the quality. I have a small collection for my own use. Hunter/jumper since the 70s. My “old” saddle is a Courbette Stylist 1, bought it new in the 1978. I ride TBs and TBXs, and it fits quite a few of them over the decades. Then I bought another one just 2 years ago, a 17 instead of a 16.5, but it feels the same to me to ride in. It’s about the same vintage, and neglected, but has come back to life just fine. I paid $50 for that one. It’s a “narrow”, when my old one is a “medium”, and it fits my “narrow” horse just perfectly. I bought it as a “rescue”. I also have acquired a Passier Century, the flat hunter saddle, but with a round cantle. It’s lovely too. And I have a Crosby “Olympic” (flat but with a tiny suede knee pad), and a Crosby PDN (another $50 purchase). These 2 medium width Crosby saddles fit a wee bit wider than the Courbette Stylist medium. The Crosbys replace my original PDN which I foolishly sold about 20 years ago. I don’t find that the hard seats are an issue with comfort, I find them very comfortable and stable to sit in. It’s not a soft cushy seat that makes a saddle comfortable, it’s the width of the twist. Since I like a “minimalist” saddle, I also ride in a racetrack exercise saddle, a Beavertail, a bit like a surcingle with a leather pad and stirrup bars with a half tree. I trained racehorses for 25 years, and it’s left over from that. It’s the closest you can get to the horse, thus the most secure saddle you can ride in, obviously, since it is used with young, green racehorses, and racetrackers are immune to marketing and promotions of saddlery companies, and the demands of style. However without the full tree, it isn’t a saddle that distributes your weight well on the horse’s back for long rides. Although I saw last year that one of the jumper riders in the USA is using one just like mine regularly at the shows, for just this reason… the closest you can get to the horse, thus the security. No padding anywhere.
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