War Emblem to Old Friends

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=rascalpony;8358650]
Haha, that’s funny. I was sure I read that EM was slightly disappointing as a sire in Japan in one of the articles about him coming home. Oh, the media! After the foal crop he had over here (which was pretty good), I was a little surprised to read that. Good to know he produced well in Japan because he is just SO nicely bred, for anything really.

Can’t be too surprised he’s coming home after the TC - they must’ve gotten some incredible offers.

And EM’s temperament match War Emblem is home, hmm? Can’t wait til he’s at Old Friends. All indications are that he’ll be well off of the regular farm tour trail, but I’d love to see a few photos of him in the paddock Can’t forget seeing him and calling him as Derby winner - and being right.[/QUOTE]

I was noticing the comments about War Emblem being behind double fencing at Old Friends. Anyone know exactly how bad he is? How the hell did they even try and breed mares in Japan with him?

I have had one truly awful stud in my lifetime, and he was a TB. I have also had great TBs to handle. So, not a commentary on the breed. Just asking for specifics on this individual.

TIA!

[vineyridge]

I wonder what the temperaments of War Emblem’s get are?

I read something about Exceller’s slaughter somewhere recently. Sweden’s horse culture accepts slaughter when horses are no longer useful. But it’s not like the horse is shipped to an industrial slaughterhouse. I read that Exceller’s owner or groom, don’t know which, haltered him, led him to a quiet place on the farm where the slaughterer was waiting. He was quickly killed, and the initial butchery started at home.

Japan is a country with very little land to spare. It makes good sense not to have to use that land to retire horses. I believe that they are also short of protein sources and eat horsemeat. Just saying.

[ASB_Stars]

I am pretty sure that I read that the gal who cared for Exceller tried desperately to keep his owner from having him slaughtered. She ended up having to lead him in to the abbatoir, if memory serves. It was a devastating read, and obviously, is the reason for the eponymous association, which serves to try and prevent just this kind of thing from happening.

[Easytimes]

Old Friends told us he likes to be left alone and hates to be touched. He seemed very content, he’s is pretty much off by himself. He can’t see other horses. He is in double fencing. He picked his head up, looked at us, and went back to eating hay. Never made a nasty face. He looks great. They said you can’t trust him.

[Texarkana]

Not sure if this was shared yet, but it came across my news feed today:

Kentucky Derby hero Warm Emblem had to be gelded to stay in the US.

Title pretty much says it all. I was wondering how they were going to fulfill the CEM testing/quarantine protocol with him and his history of not covering mares. Stallions from CEM countries must test breed two mares so they can make sure the stallion will not pass on the disease… no exceptions.

With his history of difficult behavior all around, I don’t know why anyone would even want to keep him a stallion in retirement. It’ll be interesting to see if he becomes any more pleasant to deal with sans hormones.

[rascalpony]

Wow, that’s quite an article! I had no idea that they had to be test-bred on arrival in the US. I actually think it was a good move to geld him regardless. There’s no reason for him to be a stallion anymore and maybe he’ll be at least a little more pleasant now that he’s been snipped. I’m actually surprised that they attempted to test-breed him at all. As Texarkana said, why bother keeping him whole?

Nasty he might be, but to me he is quite the looker. That photo of him in the paddock is a nice one.

[Laurierace]

For starters, Old Friends is first and foremost a showcase for retired stallions, not geldings. Secondly gelding an older stallion, especially one who has sired foals is a risky surgery that you wouldn’t want to undertake for the hell of it. The wrath they would have taken had he bled to death as a result of the surgery would have been unending. I think they definitely made the right decision but were also right to have given him every opportunity to stay intact.

[rascalpony]

For starters, Old Friends is first and foremost a showcase for retired stallions, not geldings.

I mean yes, but they do have a few other geldings (like Eldaafer). I don’t personally feel like it should matter whether stallion or gelding, but I can see it mattering a little more because Old Friends specializes in taking in stallions.

Secondly gelding an older stallion, especially one who has sired foals is a risky surgery that you wouldn’t want to undertake for the hell of it. The wrath they would have taken had he bled to death as a result of the surgery would have been unending. I think they definitely made the right decision but were also right to have given him every opportunity to stay intact.

Entirely true. Once again, something I didn’t even think of. That procedure would take a much bigger toll on a senior stallion than it would on a young horse.

[INoMrEd]

One of my friends posted this on Facebook - it’s an article about War Emblem and why he had to be gelded:

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/kentucky-derby-hero-war-emblem-had-be-gelded-stay-us

[Texarkana]

It’s risky to geld an older breeding stallion, but not impossible. Growing up in the arabian world, we did it ALL the time. For an individual like War Emblem who is still relatively “young” (17) and is supposedly a PITA to deal with, it makes zero sense to keep him intact IMO. But regardless, the decision was made for them.

Old Friends has TONS of geldings. Over half of their showcase horses are geldings. They have always taken geldings. They even have a few mares. No one is going to be less inclined to go visit Old Friends or War Emblem because they gelded him. Maybe now we can hope he’ll be able to receive visitors in some capacity one day… instead of needing a heavy dose of distance to keep him happy and guests safe.

[ASB_Stars]

I was really wondering how they were going to accomplish the test breeding, after all of the press on how the behavior specialist from New Bolton, amongst others, had visited him over the years, in an effort to get him to find his groove.

It appears that Old friends handled this in the best possible way, all around, and good for them. He is a lovely addition, and it is also wonderful that he is retiring on his home ground. I hope to see him some day!

[cloudyandcallie]

[QUOTE=ASB Stars;8239990]
You may be right, but I have one word for you.

Ferdinand.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Better a dry lot than a slaughterhouse.

It’s all a matter of heredity and environment. My supposedly gelded before he left Germany Hessen as a 4 yr old has never quit having sex with mares. Go figure. (Just like with men, horses are different sexually.)

[cloudyandcallie]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8472347]
I wonder what the temperaments of War Emblem’s get are?

I read something about Exceller’s slaughter somewhere recently. Sweden’s horse culture accepts slaughter when horses are no longer useful. But it’s not like the horse is shipped to an industrial slaughterhouse. I read that Exceller’s owner or groom, don’t know which, haltered him, led him to a quiet place on the farm where the slaughterer was waiting. He was quickly killed, and the initial butchery started at home.

Japan is a country with very little land to spare. It makes good sense not to have to use that land to retire horses. I believe that they are also short of protein sources and eat horsemeat. Just saying.[/QUOTE]

But of course there’s first the bolt gun, then the throat is slit while the horse is still thrashing and alive and the horse is hung up by a hind leg to bleed out. Not the same as a tranquilizer and Euthanol.

So visit a slaughterhouse if you think it’s a peaceful death. Or watch someone on a farm slaughter an animal. I have.

[beowulf]

question – what do they do with the “test mares” that are covered to detect CEM? abort? what if the mare contracts CEM? why can’t they just only test the semen for the bacteria rather than expose other horse[s] to it? do the mares carry to full term or are the fetus[es] aborted?

[Laurierace]

Test mares have had their ovaries removed so are in constant heat but no pregnancies result.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8546388]
Test mares have had their ovaries removed so are in constant heat but no pregnancies result.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I was hoping it was something like that.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8546372]
why can’t they just only test the semen for the bacteria rather than expose other horse[s] to it?[/QUOTE]

I think the lack of symptoms and serological response in the stallion creates a high chance for false negatives from culturing the stallion alone.

[BAC]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8545220]
For starters, Old Friends is first and foremost a showcase for retired stallions, not geldings. Secondly gelding an older stallion, especially one who has sired foals is a risky surgery that you wouldn’t want to undertake for the hell of it. The wrath they would have taken had he bled to death as a result of the surgery would have been unending. I think they definitely made the right decision but were also right to have given him every opportunity to stay intact.[/QUOTE]

While Old Friends is predominately retired stallions, one of their very first (if not the first ever) of their rescues was the mare Narrow Escape. They have a few geldings as well and even took on a non-TB show horse a few years back.

You are right about the high risk involved with gelding an older breeding stallion but if you read the announcement put out by Old Friends they seem to have gone to great lengths to make it as risk free as possible including their choice of vet and anesthesiologist. I’m glad it seems to be a success.

[spotted_draft_x_fill]

Dr Tanner is a great vet for gelding as other things. I held a colt why he gelded him. He stuck around for awhile to monitor him to make sure everything was going smoothly. He even spent several hours with him on multiple occasions due to the manager not complying with follow up care. He’s a great guy that will teach you anything if you’re willing to learn and is eager to answer any questions you have. Couldn’t ask for a better vet for that situation and I would recommend him to anyone.

[harvestmoon]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8545220]
For starters, Old Friends is first and foremost a showcase for retired stallions, not geldings.[/QUOTE]

It is? Their current roster includes 69 geldings, 14 stallions, and 3 mares. And War Emblem.