Warmblood Import Nightmare

[FitzE]

@Laurierace

Why would any seller agree to that? If the horse passed all the tests on their end that is the end of their responsibility. They have no control over what the horse may be exposed to once the horse leaves their care, why should they be they have to pay for anything related to a horse they no longer own?

Because that is the entire purpose of a contract: the private ordering of business between individuals. You can write a sales and shipping contract allocating risk to pass when/wherever you please. Risk can pass to buyer when the goods (horse) are still on seller’s property if that’s what the parties agree to. Risk can pass to buyer at some time after the goods are in buyers possession, if that’s what the parties agree to. Risk can pass at any number of points in between those two (when cleared for export; origin port; in transit; destination port; customs; etc.). Incoterms exist for so many points of risk transfer that there are charts to keep track.

The end of their responsibility is when the two parties agree it is. Neither party has control during shipping yet one party bears the risk always - that’s fundamentals of international trade.

A seller who agreed to such a contract would likely build that risk into the price of the goods (horse) to reflect the estimated number of times she would end up absorbing those costs. She would refine that estimate based on experience over the years she is in business IF she decided to agree to such terms.

One party bears the risk of loss at each point in the transaction. Where that risk passes from seller to buyer is completely up to the two parties and there is nothing unusual or outrageous about any of the choices, including the one AD’s sister agreed with her seller.

[Mistysmom]

What a horrible situation! I sure hope everything works out for all involved.

[MyssMyst]

@AppaloosaDressage

Not to mention, the horse is also being denied farrier care and his feet are going to hell… and he’s a BIG boy stuck in a little stall.

This is ludicrous.

There is ZERO reason to deny this horse veterinary treatment or farrier care, and keeping a large horse confined with no out this long is dangerous for everyone.

[Temecula_Jumper]

Update: The family was finally allowed to get a vet out yesterday to see the horse. The vet administered Excede, SMZs and Banamine. The next retest is next week. If the horse fails again, the family is going to try to move him to UC Davis. The USDA would not approve a vet hospital in Chino that had quarantine and isolation stalls, so it looks like Davis is it in the state.

[Denali6298]

@Temecula Jumper

Update: The family was finally allowed to get a vet out yesterday to see the horse. The vet administered Excede, SMZs and Banamine. The next retest is next week. If the horse fails again, the family is going to try to move him to UC Davis. The USDA would not approve a vet hospital in Chino that had quarantine and isolation stalls, so it looks like Davis is it in the state.

I don’t understand why, if a horse tests positive for something, a vet can’t treat it while the owner decides what they are going to do. I mean I know it’s quarantine but if people are willing to comply with the protocols and the owner is willing to pay… Are vets not on staff at the quarantine places?

Sorry for my ignorance as I have never looked into importing a horse.

[WildLittleWren]

@Denali6298

I don’t understand why, if a horse tests positive for something, a vet can’t treat it while the owner decides what they are going to do. I mean I know it’s quarantine but if people are willing to comply with the protocols and the owner is willing to pay… Are vets not on staff at the quarantine places?

Sorry for my ignorance as I have never looked into importing a horse.

I second this. No veterinary or farrier care is absurd while this is being sorted out! Glad to hear the vet was able to start treating.

[Temecula_Jumper]

@Denali6298

I don’t understand why, if a horse tests positive for something, a vet can’t treat it while the owner decides what they are going to do. I mean I know it’s quarantine but if people are willing to comply with the protocols and the owner is willing to pay… Are vets not on staff at the quarantine places?

Sorry for my ignorance as I have never looked into importing a horse.

This has been a question the family has been trying to get answered since the horse arrived shortly before Thanksgiving. No, there are apparently no vets on staff at Jet Pets quarantine and while the USDA officials deciding this horse’s fate are vets, they do not provide treatment. The family has been told only a USDA-approved vet may administer treatment on the horse, and they were told there was only one in all of So. Cal. - a racetrack vet who refused to prescribe him antibiotics (because she thought he was fine) and who the family just learned has been suspended multiple times in the past year by the California Horse Racing Board.

The family only just learned last week from an FEI vet who is intervening on their behalf that any vet can easily get approved by the USDA and that they should’ve been allowed to have a vet of their choosing come out weeks ago.

[Denali6298]

@Temecula Jumper

This has been a question the family has been trying to get answered since the horse arrived shortly before Thanksgiving. No, there are apparently no vets on staff at Jet Pets quarantine and while the USDA officials deciding this horse’s fate are vets, they do not provide treatment. The family has been told only a USDA-approved vet may administer treatment on the horse, and they were told there was only one in all of So. Cal. - a racetrack vet who refused to prescribe him antibiotics (because she thought he was fine) and who the family just learned has been suspended multiple times in the past year by the California Horse Racing Board.

The family only just learned last week from an FEI vet who is intervening on their behalf that any vet can easily get approved by the USDA and that they should’ve been allowed to have a vet of their choosing come out weeks ago.

Oh my god that’s terrible. Shame on that vet! If he was fine he wouldn’t be on extend quarantine right? I can’t even.

[Peggy]

This is so wrong on so many levels. Hoping the horse gets out of LAX jail soon.

[lovezehorses]

@Temecula Jumper

This has been a question the family has been trying to get answered since the horse arrived shortly before Thanksgiving. No, there are apparently no vets on staff at Jet Pets quarantine and while the USDA officials deciding this horse’s fate are vets, they do not provide treatment. The family has been told only a USDA-approved vet may administer treatment on the horse, and they were told there was only one in all of So. Cal. - a racetrack vet who refused to prescribe him antibiotics (because she thought he was fine) and who the family just learned has been suspended multiple times in the past year by the California Horse Racing Board.

The family only just learned last week from an FEI vet who is intervening on their behalf that any vet can easily get approved by the USDA and that they should’ve been allowed to have a vet of their choosing come out weeks ago.

I am not american so I am not quite sure but it seems far fetched that there would be only one USDA vet for So. Cal. Especially if needed for livestock border crossing. I am sorry this is happening to the family and glad an FEI vet is helping out. I also hope the horse passes next test!

[findeight]

Oh, there’s more then one USDA vet out there but there is one designated specifically to the quarantine facility.

Really think the timing on this is the worst possible complication. Because of the timing of the holidays this year, many offices have been closed or operating on a skeleton staff only with those in authority taking half the first week and all of the second holiday week off. Not just govt offices either, service providers like dentists and lawyers and vets are running reduced staff with the senior partners off and major, non emergency decisions on the back burner until they return

Hopefully everybody is back at the office tomorrow and govt services crank backup tomorrow. They can get some answers.

[Plumcreek]

@Peggy

This is so wrong on so many levels. Hoping the horse gets out of LAX jail soon.

I would consider this shared experience a real boost to encourage people following to buy in the US.

[atl_hunter]

@findeight

Oh, there’s more then one USDA vet out there but there is one designated specifically to the quarantine facility.

Really think the timing on this is the worst possible complication.

^THIS. I vetted a horse before Christmas and am still awaiting a radiographic review from a university. Everything gets backed up at the holidays-especially the government.

[MyssMyst]

@Plumcreek

I would consider this shared experience a real boost to encourage people following to buy in the US.

Statistically, what are the actual odds of this happening? How many imported horses do we have each year, and how many end up like this? The odds are still in your favor importing. It might scare away those who can’t afford a surprise 10k or more, but it’s also easy to blow several thousand trying to find just the right horse in the states if you know exactly what you like and very few US breeders have the specific thing you’re looking for. If I can find a much higher number in Europe, and I can see that higher number in one trip? I’ll probably end up in Europe.

[Peggy]

IMHO there are so many things that can go wrong with horses and their purchase that the likelihood of a quarantine gone wrong adds a negligible amount of risk to the overall venture.

I can think of other reasons to buy local, including having a trial at your barn and a PPE from your own vet.

[snaffle1987]

@Temecula Jumper

Thanks everyone for your input. The parties spoke with attorney Chapman Hopkins yesterday and he said there are only three options: 1. Euthanize the horse; 2. Ship back to country of origin; 3. Keep horse in isolation and continue testing. He said the USDA cannot deviate from this protocol.

Since it’s the holidays, there are no flights leaving back to Europe from LAX in the next ten days, so they are going to keep the horse here for another two weeks. The attorney advised it has taken horses on other cases between 30-60 days before they finally achieved a negative result.

The family has been asking the USDA to put the horse on antibiotics for weeks to see if that could help with the test outcome. The USDA has refused because “the horse is healthy.” Attorney Hopkins said he will help facilitate the horse getting some antibiotics tomorrow, so fingers crossed that might help with the next CFT test in ten days.

I’ve been passing on everyone’s posts to the family and they are very appreciative!

they own the horse and the horse is in quarantine. if they want the horse on antibiotics, get the horse on antibiotics. its a treatable disease with antibiotics. If the USDA is saying the horse is testing positive for it; the horse is not “healthy” It is not up to the USDA to determine what vet work the horse gets while it is in quarantine. To not put this horse on antibiotics just seems absolutely absurd at this point.

[snaffle1987]

@findeight

Oh, there’s more then one USDA vet out there but there is one designated specifically to the quarantine facility.

Really think the timing on this is the worst possible complication. Because of the timing of the holidays this year, many offices have been closed or operating on a skeleton staff only with those in authority taking half the first week and all of the second holiday week off. Not just govt offices either, service providers like dentists and lawyers and vets are running reduced staff with the senior partners off and major, non emergency decisions on the back burner until they return

Hopefully everybody is back at the office tomorrow and govt services crank backup tomorrow. They can get some answers.

the vet at the quarantine facility should be putting the horse on the requested antibiotics if the horse is testing positive for a disease THAT CAN BE TREATED WITH ANTIBIOTICS. Has the owners talked directly with the vet at the USDA quarantine? If not, I suggest they do. They own the horse and are paying the bills. This seems pretty cut and dry to me and I am speechless that the quarantine facility is stating the horse cant be put on antibiotics because its “healthy” when its testing for a treatable disease. like W.T.F.

[snaffle1987]

@Temecula Jumper

Update: The family was finally allowed to get a vet out yesterday to see the horse. The vet administered Excede, SMZs and Banamine. The next retest is next week. If the horse fails again, the family is going to try to move him to UC Davis. The USDA would not approve a vet hospital in Chino that had quarantine and isolation stalls, so it looks like Davis is it in the state.

good for them for not giving up on the horse. Poor thing. UC davis will do right if they can get him there. Hopefully he retests clean and if not, they can get him on a much needed round of antibiotics to clear him

[Temecula_Jumper]

@snaffle1987

the vet at the quarantine facility should be putting the horse on the requested antibiotics if the horse is testing positive for a disease THAT CAN BE TREATED WITH ANTIBIOTICS. Has the owners talked directly with the vet at the USDA quarantine? If not, I suggest they do. They own the horse and are paying the bills. This seems pretty cut and dry to me and I am speechless that the quarantine facility is stating the horse cant be put on antibiotics because its “healthy” when its testing for a treatable disease. like W.T.F.

Yes, they talk to the USDA vet daily. Again, the USDA does not provide treatment whatsoever. The family is not allowed in to the quarantine facility and has had to rely on the import agent (Horse Flight), the quarantine facility (Jet Pets) and the USDA, all of whom have told them conflicting and erroneous information regarding care of this horse, including that there is only one USDA-approved vet in all of So Cal that can enter the isolation stall and treat the horse. It wasn’t until an FEI vet just recently intervened that they learned this wasn’t the case and any vet can be approved by the USDA. The USDA quarantine vet didn’t even know this, or at least didn’t deign to tell the family.

[endlessclimb]

I can smell a lawsuit for the costs of quarantine, if the horse wasn’t being treated for anything despite being held for a health related issue…