Was going to link that thread. Excellent input from
A vet /podiatrist. I think when you hear hoof beats… it’s not zebras. Chonky history of laminitis lovely fellow is foot sore AF.
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If the weather isn’t hot as hades tomorrow, I’ll get some video of him lunging and walking on different surfaces to get a better visual on overall movement. Anything else that would be helpful?
Cant see much of the underside of with hoof the glue ons on at the moment. I’m curious to see how he will be fully barefoot again once those come off, that should be helpful information in all this. They were set pretty good and have been on since June 23. I plan to have the trimmer come out to do him again/help take them off for me to get her thoughts at this stage AND since that’s a lot of growth to take off with just a rasp 
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Yes I have been following this one with interest!
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He looks better but of course it’s hard to tell with a front on shot.
I missed that he’s in glue ons. I love my glue ons, but they have to be set differently than a regular steel/aluminum shoe. Further back, more break over. I’m far from the glue on shoe expert but it might be worth posting a photo of his feet here.
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I appreciate these aren’t great analysis photos, but these were right after they were put on. My trimmer only does barefoot trimming and glue ons; no traditional horse shoes. I’ll snap some tonight, but they will also show 5-6 weeks growth.
Here’s a video from a weekend camp we did last summer. He is barefoot here and does give me a trip at about 20 secs in and it looks like left front again to me. (this was before “backing” finally clicked LOL) https://youtu.be/N8oZoaCrJ6E?si=NqxjsrM12ewRh3b3
And this one was from a lesson in March; barefoot as well. He does a little trip at the canter around 51 seconds in: https://youtu.be/PAq36hNDc3g?si=rfXkvaRmiPI3pTQv
Digging back, we have had tripping barefoot, in Scoot Boots, and in the glue ons. No noticeable difference really with that in mind but the worst instances were in the Scoots. Im open to it being a hoof issue given everything else we know with his laminitis/metabolic history.
With that said, out of any place on his body, his feet have had the most professional eyes (and rads) on them. Between my personal vet, retired vet friend, vet tech friend, my trimmer, and my trainers blacksmith all within the past year, nothing has jumped out to any of them as a possible cause or anything to “correct” with the feet. I like to ask as many professionals as I can since I have been trimming myself and don’t want to be the cause of any problems to him.
The chronic laminitis thought makes a lot of sense. When we were at the barn he did the best with his weight at (IE all the OTHER horses were losing weight…), I don’t recall any instances of tripping, or at least none that were memorable in the 8 months we were there. And though we are actively losing weight, we still have a little ways to go to get back down to where he was there.
IMO, the next time vet sees him, ask for neuro test; its not hard to do. If anything shows up, then as mentioned earlier, consider looking at his neck. I have no personal experience with the laminitis so can’t opine on that, but more than I ever wanted on neuro/neck issues. There were several things going on with my horse, all subtle and inconsistent - until they weren’t. Tripping was on that list and maybe the first thing that really got noticed. Cervical arthritis and spinal compression retired him at 10.
Good luck with him, he’s a cutey!!
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IMO in both videos he appears bilaterally footsore. In the second video it’s much more apparent; he is landing toe first. Landing toe first definitely puts him at a greater risk of tripping. And if you put a boot on, which has a bigger front area, I can see why he may trip more in them.
If you redo the glue ons, I’d ask for more break over on the toe. The front of the hoof should stick over the shoe a tiny bit. It gives it a rocker effect.
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I see what you mean by bilaterally foot sore.
In the working eq (?) clinic, that’s not what I call a trip per se. It’s an “ouch step.” Like if a barefoot horse stepped on a pebble. Which doesn’t mean it’s in the hoof necessarily. But horse has had a sudden twinge. Yes, it can lead to a stumble. But it’s not a trip like you get if a horse is dragging his toes and catches his toe on the ground.
Edited to add, the reason I’m quibbling about the actual trip versus ouch/flinch thing is I think it leads to different diagnoses. With the ouch/flinch, something is causing very intermittent acute pain on the left front leg, and yes it could well be part of bilateral pain making him go short in front. It could be hoof pain or knee pain or shoulder pain.
But he’s not dragging the foot or losing balance or catching the toe. So I feel like it’s maybe not neurological (though that’s something I have no experience with so could be wrong).
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when my horse buckles/trips like that he usually needs his coffin joints injected or his front fetlocks. Pro stride makes a huge difference, and it goes away.
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I agree that difference makes a difference! I don’t have a ton of first hand experience with neuro horses though a friend has been dealing with an EPM diagnosis. Her horse was NQR as long as I’ve known her then things got much worse. Nothing screams neuro to me with Charlie so far, but I also understand that the signs can be very subtle. We have Lyme in the area as well.
I think my next step may be to get a new set of eyes on him and his whole history. The other vet clinic in the area is just as reputable as mine is, and is where my vet tech friend works.
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What is the underlying cause? Something like arthritis? Tendon issues? I’ve had zero horses that have needed injections for anything so my knowledge is quite limited in that space.
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@FjordBCRF, I agree with Scribbler that Charlie looks like he’s taking ouchy steps and not really tripping. That would make perfect sense, because he’s already been diagnosed with laminitis and isn’t completely over it yet. It may be a sign that you need to back off a little on the work, or at least change what you’re doing–maybe just straight line walking and avoid turns or anything that puts excess pressure on the toes.
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I agree. He just moves like he is very uncomfortable in front. Can you share any videos where he wasn’t tripping or had laminitis? Did he move more fluidly then?
It is almost like the leg gives out on him ? He is just so heavy on the front.
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Uploading a dressage test we did in 2022 when we were at The Diet Barn. It takes a while but I’ll share the link when it’s done.
@candyappy this one went much faster than the other! I think he does look to be moving lighter in this video.
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And here was a video of us driving a couple weeks before his flare this year. Scoot boots on here, no trips.
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In his dressage video I still see lameness, it’s most noticeable to me when he is completing a circle at the trot. IMO his front left is slightly worse than his front right, but it’s still bilateral; which makes seeing it so much harder.
In his video of him in harness he is probably the soundest of the videos you’ve posted. But, his trot is not even and it looks to me like that front left is still bothering him.
(These are just suggestions, but several of my horses would prefer to be on the hefty side and I’ve dealt with similar tripping issues in 1 of mine)
If he was my horse, I’d get him thin. Like, racing thin, and put him on the lowest sugar feed I could find. Then I’d consult with someone who specializes in equine lameness, preferably someone with one of those new systems where the computer tracks the lameness; it’s much better at seeing it than we are and it provides a better baseline. I’d then expect that I’d be injecting the coffin joint (unless lameness vet finds it’s something completely different).
Last resort for me would be going to equioxx for pain management.
If he was mine, I would not stop working him. (unless a vet finds a reason to do so) He needs to loose weight and build muscle, neither are accomplished by standing around. I would stick to walk and trot, doing a lot of work getting him to lift off his front and use his hind end.
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That front left is def more consistent. I’m not great with subtle lameness but it’s frustrating having worked with three separate trainers since I’ve had him, who I’d expect to have a better eye than me.
Thank you for the suggestions @StormyDay they all make sense to me. For additional info this is his current dining situation:
Breakfast/Dinner
- 1/2 (2C) soaked beet pulp shreds without molasses
- Vermont Blend Pro
- Omega E (Flax + Vit E)
- Tractguard (butryic acid supplement for FWS)
- One AC (helps with FWS)
- 1TBSP table salt
- Apple a Day electrolytes
Forage
- AM 7lbs of soaked grass hay in a 1 3/4 inch hay bag that goes out to his limestone dry lot with him in a grazing muzzle. Keeps him busy all day and sometimes he will still have some left which he gets in his stall.
- PM 7lbs soaked grass hay in 1” nets in stall.
- 2lbs Unbeetable Forage Only (alfalfa/beet pellet) dispersed from an auto feeder in smaller portions every few hours over the course of 9PM to 6AM
I weigh his bags myself so I know we’re on point. I have enough hay bags for the entire barn at this point 
He was getting a few more total pounds more prior to the flare up. Everything is calculated now on a 900lb ideal weight vs a 1000 lb. He’s tapering off thyro-l this week and I have the Platinum Performance metabolic supplement to start him on. I believe that was referenced in the other thread someone shared.
Here is this years hay, it’s mature but still a little too much with WSC.
Ok! Feet pic from tonight.
Fronts (can’t see the underside because of the shoes)
Backs which I need to trim this weekend:
Here he is in action tonight:
Walking trotting on concrete: https://youtu.be/jMV9ck_z7Sw?si=jcelb2UcZ2lLgEUN
On gravel drive with some slope
IMG_4445
Lunging: https://youtu.be/NGEwJK13plY?si=1D_-pPS-WavGPvVM
In regards to keeping him in work. 100% agree. We’re up to a couple miles walking (mostly) farm roads and trails. As mentioned, I’ve been hesitant to drive him. I talked with my driving friend today, who has cobs of similar physique… and she said she wouldn’t shy away from light drives. Me with tack has to add close to 160 pounds on his back, which driving would avoid and he has the harness to push into some so I’m rethinking that.
Unrelated to your horse - but Lake Erie College!! I spent many a cold day there before I left Cleveland for Florida. But had fun w/ friends too.
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Hahahaha! I didn’t major in the equine program while I was there but took lessons every semester and worked there for a bit! It’s definitely recognizable!
