I would also make sure he is in TO with others that keep him in his place. I have always raised my young horses up with mixed herds (mares, geldings youngsters and the older take no guff ones). Having young horses only in same age herds can end up problematic.
I had a young mare that cow kicked while I was saddling. Missed me, but sadly for her I had a whip just behind me. I never again needed it!
Reactions need to be loud, and swift.
When you walk into a horses stall, drop feed then stay in that stall with them, even just walking across it as he eats as it sounds like you did here? Sorry, thats asking for it, you got treated exactly like another horse getting into his space while heās eating would be treated. Donāt do that. Any horse any age.
Sounds like itās time to install some stall manners. You are not another horse and heās not to disrespect you like you were another horse. On the other hand, heās not another person and itās his stall/ safe place/ buffet table so itās important you donāt give him opportunities to screw up like he did, figure out how to drop the feed without staying in that stall.
Anyway, this is not hard or rocket science but you MUST be consistent with him and anybody else who handles him needs to be on the same page. Every time you are around him, you are training or untraining. Thereās no middle ground, especially with impressionable yearlings.
You can use the round pen but remember yearlings have the attention span of a gnat so more shorter sessions is better then fewer longer ones. If you can keep their attention for 5 minutes, you are doing good, if you notice them starting to get distracted, change what you are asking them or take a short break. the Basically, you need him to face you as you approach with the halter and focus on you instead of surroundings. It really works best if you just practice these things as you halter him, lead him, ask him to stop, stand, turn and such. Going into a round pen and just trying to teach the lessons in there doesnāt work as well as continuing the lessons from the time you step in the stall or pen until you remove the halter with him facing you and staying that way until you leave the stall .
I didnāt say that very well, hope it makes sense. Lots of material out there on this type of training that has to become ingrained behavior every time, every minute you are with him. Itās not just round pen behavior, itās all the time everywhere behavior, you can not just do it in the round pen. Once you get his respect, he will gradually develop a longer attention span as you consistently handle him this way. Make the more advanced training go easier later on.
Worked with mine, all breeds and types and ages, in the stall to turn and face me before I stepped in and haltered them and they stayed that way until I walked out. Basic safety and mutual respect. However, I NEVER walked in, dropped feed and expected them to just stand there and sure never walked behind any horse with its head in a feed bucket. That would be asking too much.
I expect to be able to walk into a stall, drop the feed (into an existing bucket, or bring the bucket in), allow them to approach, and then walk across the stall (or even check something on their body) without any discussion. If a horse doesnāt allow that without turning on you, they are not safe to be around.
How else is someone supposed to put the food in, if the horse is already in there? Walk in, put it in, walk across the stall to walk back out. Every single horse should not even bat an eye at that.
I even expect that I could, do some grooming while they eat. I donāt do that, but I expect behavior such that I could.
I expect 100% that I can apply fly spray while they are eating, and I do that every day in the Summer. Itās no fun seeing them stomp and swish at flies while eating, and since all their meals are soaked, the last thing they need is to have mash slobbered all over legs and sides - just more fly attractant.
But Iām not hovering, I want them to be able to eat in peace. But absolutely they should be 100% ok with me in there filling a water bucket, or adding salt to a bucket if I saw they were low/empty.
I forgot to add:
When I say "walk into a stall, drop the feed (into an existing bucket, or bring the bucket in), allow them to approach, and then walk across the stall ", I should add some context to this.
For both of my foals, I spent maybe 10-20 seconds standing there after I allowed them to approach (because marching right over is not an option) doing a few wither scritches, and then I walked away and out of the stall. I did not want to set up a situation where it appeared in their mind that their approach was āchasingā me away.
Once they understood that, that I was not leaving just because they approached, then I was ok leaving right away, assuming their approach was respectful - no slamming their nose into the bucket while Iām still trying to put it down/clip it on.
We have to look at things from their perspective, not ours. Every interaction is training, everything we do they make a connection to something, so we have to think about what out actions mean to them, not just what we think they mean
And often, we arenāt even thinking they mean anything, but the horse sure does.
Oh, my, how I disagree with this ever so strongly. A horse with properly installed manners shouldnāt give a ratās if you hang out during feed time, groom during feed time, put a blanket on during feed time, etc. They should a) understand that you take no nonsense, and b) understand that you arenāt going to steal their food from them. This is so very basic. If feeding time is such a stress for a horse that they are liable to become violent, there is either something wrong medically with the horse (ulcers), socially wrong with the horse (allowing other horses to steal food from it), or it hasnāt been trained and is being allowed to train the humans.
Oh right, I forgot - blankets! I will absolutely be taking blankets off while they start eating. Occasionally I will put them on, but thatās harder, as I feed on the ground so their heads are down there, hard to fasten from buckles, but I absolutely expect that someone will bring their head up long enough for me to fasten a clip.
When I put fly spray on, I walk behind each horse to get to the other side. They couldnāt care less, and I expect them to not care. This applies to both foals I raised, the OTTB mare, and the āinheritanceā horse who used to be a little bit of a bully but realized that doesnāt fly.
Yes, there are horses who need serious work to allow a person in the stall while eating - not talking about those. They need a lot more work than just about feeding. But they arenāt even close to the majority, and most horses who are ill-mannered about feeding are that way because their human handling told them that was ok, ie, at a young age the person dropping the feed walked away as the horse was approaching, or got scared and left the minute the horse pinned his ears.
Yup. I spent a lot of time with my 4 year old while he eats. In the beginning, it was a lot of āYou donāt get to come get your dinner until I tell you that you canā. Then it was āYou still have to be polite while you are eating and I am doing whatever I need to doā, and āYou have to move away from your feed whenever I ask without being rudeā. He was always very mild mannered to begin with so he wasnāt as pushy as other youngsters Iāve dealt with, but I fully expect my horses to have someone come in their stall with feed, be able to, say, take time to dump the hay the horse tossed in his feed bucket because he wonāt finish his dinner if there is still hay in it (true story), and take their sweet time pouring the feed without being nagged by a pushy horse. And that will back up calmly if you need to get back into his feed for any reason (say somebody accidentally gave him the wrong horseās feed and needed to swap it).
We are at a barn now that you can dump feed without going into the stall, but every now and then I will go in with his feed to make sure his manners are still there and he hasnāt disappointed me yet. Iāll sometimes just hang out with him while he eats too and read a bit. And Iām so glad I spent this time making sure he was well mannered about food. He is one of the few horses there that isnāt pitching a fit for dinner, doesnāt pin their ears at you when you dump feed, doesnāt try to snatch hay from you when you bring it in, etc. And the workers all love him for it.
Insisting on good manners now will make him a well-loved equine citizen and will be appreciated by all who handle your horse throughout his life, as someone above has stated. Good on you for wanting to take the steps now to make sure that happens!
I disagree. While I try not to mess with a horse too much while he eats I donāt necessarily go out of my way to not be in their stall. I will put hay in their net, fill water, fly spray legs, adjust a blanket. I wonāt duck under their neck when they are eating. When I go behind them I verbally remind them I am there. Yes I keep a close eye on him so if they so much as threatens me I move him off the food. Trust me I have seen horses be pretty protective of their hay. Alpha horse does not let those below them have their personal space whenever they are eating. I am not another horse getting in his space while he is eating I am the boss.
I kept my horse at one farm. There was a gelding they used with the young horses. If there were 3 horses in the field there were 4 piles of hay. The gelding would come into the field and move both young horses off whatever pile they were eating from. He would frequently then go and eat from a different one. Moving those young horses off their hay was a basic reinforcement that he was boss. He was nasty about it, just firm. There may be a time I absolutely need to move a horse off their feed or do something in their stall when they are eating. I want those manners installed way before the point I need it. I want it part of his expected behavior. Horse will always be respectful of human.
I owned a horse that was territorial in his stall and field with people. I wish somebody had corrected his behavior when he was younger. With him if we had to work with him in his stall he was snubbed to the wall. He was a biter not a kicker.
It really isnāt much different than when I get a puppy. I put the food down. Sometimes I will pick it up and then return it immediate. Sometimes I make them wait a little longer. Sometimes I will put the food down and make them wait before they start eating. Same with rawhides, bones and toys. All things come from me and I can take them away at any time. As part of training I will either return the item or switch for a high value treat. There may come a time that they have gotten something they shouldnāt have and I want it to be normal and acceptable that I can take things from them. They are generally pretty willing to ignore that one time I donāt have something to return or trade for immediately. Yes I periodically reinforce this so they donāt forget.
When I get an adult dog I will eventually do this. I normally wait a few weeks until they are settled in before I do. All of my dogs get a Give command installed.
Everyone needs to follow JBās advice - that is how Iāve always done things when it comes to handling horses (4 plus decades) - hasnāt failed me yet.
I got my current horse as a 4-year straight from the track (16+ yrs ago). I can do absolutely anything with her at anytime and she never steps a foot out of line. She learned from day one what I expected. All my horses over the years were trained the same way once I got them. Nothing worse than as rude, disrespectful horse.
A valuable two cents!
G.
Thatās very generous of you, G.
Thank you.
Suppose I should have restricted these thoughts to young horses, those that have not had a set of manners installed or horses you do not know very well. Still feel an average 14 month old colt without a lot of work in him, that has not learned proper respect, should not be trusted in a tight space with food without a lead on.
We all have different experiences that shape our opinions. My personal horses have had good ground manners but experience working around other peopleās horses in tight spaces taught me not to take anything for granted and to make safe choices. Like making sure the horse is focused on me the entire time or in a halter and lead. And you never know if something unexpected could change the dynamic of the situation.
I still donāt walk in when the horse is eating. YMMV
If you canāt feel safe to walk into the stall when a horse you have in your care is eating, well, youāre doing something wrong. And thatās basically what weāre saying to the OP, is hey, you have a management and education problem here, not a horse problem. You might want to fix it before that yearling gets any bigger or more set in its miserable ways.
FWIW, many moons ago I owned a large, ungelded 2 year old. One of the other boarders had a 5 year old breeding stallion. Because we took no crap from our horses, we were able to cross tie them perpendicular to each other, work them in the same arena, go into their stalls unarmed, and had zero problems with either (or both) boys around mares and geldings.
Also, FWIW, it doesnāt take āworkā to gain respect. It takes good, consistent, firm handling which requires setting absolute boundaries for acceptable behaviour and immediately correcting anything that falls outside of those boundaries. And, interestingly, those horses that get it spelled out early and often are way, way happier than the ones who are constantly testing their boundaries.
Love JBās advice here.
Itās not just babies. My mare, coming back into work after a month off, decided to make a nasty face at me while I was walking out after putting her beet pulp in the feed bucket. The bucket I had in my hand was immediately thrown at her ass, she skittered off in the corner, and immediately started approaching to āapologizeā if you will. Sheās 8, and a boundary tester, particularly when not in consistent work.
90% of the horses I have dealt with, caught in the field, fed, mucked around and ridden in 50 years have not been mine. Think I only owned about 12, leased a few others but got all of those as adults and none came with what I consider decent ground manners. They got them installed for sure if they were mine or I was authorized to work with them beyond barn chores.
So, my life experience with horses has made me more cautious Sorry you judge me as doing something wrong but getting kicked into the stall wall dropping feed for somebody elseās horse is an experience not to be repeated. So I continue to be conservative on the safety side. Trust me, my personal horses stand facing me in the stall. Always try to drop the feed from outside but have the feed bucket right by the door at shows or in a barn set up that way so itās an easy step in and step out while they wait. Mine or not, not going to walk behind them during that 5 min. with their head is in the feed bucket.
Over that 50 years have driven two barn staffers to the ER who were kicked when feeding and covered for a few others who missed work due to feeding accidents. Thatās the experience that has taught me, others with different experiences have different opinions that effect how they approach horses.
OP here knows her yearling has not had a lot of handling. IMO it would be better to exercise caution until confirmed manners have been installed and she learns to enforce them as well as recognize subtle signs of impending action from the horse . That would have avoided that scare and giving the colt the idea it was acceptable behavior.
One thing I always keep in mind about the Internet is readers come on all levels of experience and knowledge plus thereās no standard in instructors or material covered in lessons. I donāt want somebody to read something I posted on here about the horse should allow them in while eating and march into a stall with some horse and assume itās safe. Then end up with their teeth in their sinuses as happened to a friends very experienced mother when she went in DDs stall with a flake of hay and crossed behind it as horse was eating the grain she had just dropped.
If we were sitting around together with some wine, we would be in full agreement but not with Internet advice to lord knows who.
.
I absolutely agree with this. All untrained, or training history unknown horses should be worked around as if they will get aggressive about something they donāt find to their liking, or who donāt have personal space awareness and just a normal āoh lookee, something interesting over there!ā gets you run over, until they prove they are trustworthy.
And this yearling has proven he cannot be trusted at this point.
I donāt walk in while theyāre eating just for the fun of it, not to hang out, not to groom just because I can.
I would make exceptions if I had to, but sometimes I really must pick stalls while someone is eating, and I absolutely trust my horses are not going to decide to double-barrel me. Would I do that if they were upset about something? Nope.
I canāt imagine not trusting my horses such that I felt it was unwise to walk in while they were eating.
The exception taken is not the advice to be cautious. It was the blanket statement that nobody should expect any horse to be ok with them in a stall with them
Fair enough. Text only does not allow for much nuance.
I am sorry , but this is ridiculous. I have raised most of my horses since 1976 and never have I ever been threatened by one when they are eating. I expect to be able to walk around them and touch them anywhere, when and where I want.
I am not one to pick at or pester them when they are eating as a rule.
I am not another horse and my horses know it.
That just means, you didnāt train horses for others, all kinds, all ages, whatever they bring to you.
If you did, you would have found out how many are sent to you to train just because they had developed those little problems like lording over the people that were not careful to train horses every time they interact with them, let them get by and by with more and more until they are that one horse that will try to get you when they think you are not paying attention.
Training horses well is extremely simple and easy, you never have to do much but consistently be nice but firm and respect the horse and have it respect you, no fireworks needed.
The trouble, as this upstart youngster, not everyone is paying that much attention and some times they get surprised a horse is asserting itself in an aggressive way, when they missed all the other little signs the horse was already doing so and not being told humans were not horse toys.
I will say, it starts with having the right kind of adult horses to model to youngsters that they canāt just run over others in this world.
Once a dam and other mares and other colts and later other adults have taught foals that they need to be polite, not bullies, it is much easier for humans to reinforce that.
It takes a village for foals also and plenty of humans forget themselves and are not serious enough around horses and let horses push them around, then wonder when horses in a bad mood get dangerous to be around, like at feed time.
The horses we raise well and mind well are not what is being discussed here, but those that were not taught well and there are plenty of those.