That’s my understanding. Robby has a product that sells in his H/J shows, I imagine NSBA will look to that to design their rules. I don’t know why people suddenly expect these shows to be vastly different from what his shows have always been. It’s the entire reason he told USEF “k, bye” because they wouldn’t let him run the shows that he wants. He’s the one holding the cards here, NSBA got handed this opportunity on a silver platter, they will work to define rules that permit his shows to run as he wants them to.
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I dunno. Jack Russell/Border Collie crosses are absolutely a thing for dog sport. Border Jacks they call them. I can’t imagine anything ever needing that much drive and obsession
If you’re going for anxiety, Heelers don’t typically have anxiety! They like to work but they aren’t neurotic. Aussie Shepherds tho…now that would be a nightmare mix with a CHI lol
I think the reason many of us were unsure is because in all the early press releases, there was no mention of the necessary changes to the rulebook that would be needed to support this. The NSBA hunter rules are not one in the same with the USEF ones. Even the green jump heights are different. So you can see the source of the confusion. NSBA can’t just absorb USEF classes without amending the rulebook.
Now they have included the details that the rules are being updated and that they expect them by end of November, and it is a much clearer picture. I think the questions have been less about Robby doing a great job with his shows and more about the NSBA needing the correct rules in place to include them.
Side note: NSBA has acted SWIFTLY. USEF/USHJA are still dragging their feet. Who would you prefer to work with if you were Robby? Robby does have to remember - he took a HUGE risk adding a 4th facility to the Ocala area, knowing full well there was a mileage rule in place. He took a gamble and lost. The NSBA has handed him a silver platter as well. Otherwise he’d just be running a big old fancy expensive local show.
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Am I the only one who thinks this is the perfect time to make an exception to the milage rule. Indoor shows are a tremendous risk during a pandemic. Allowing multiple venues to hold large outdoor shows no matter what the mileage seems like a no-brainer. Proper stabling, good footing and ample practice areas should be the primary safety concerns. Multiple venues within easy driving distances can be a benefit to young horses and riders looking for mileage. Drug testing, SafeSport and a last minute pus to write rules seem like easy things to correct. There should be enough revenue for Wellington, WEC and HITS to all get along. We should be allowed to try something new and different without threats from the USEF.
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No, you’re not. However, as Mary Babick noted in the email to members last week, our NGB is required to use a sport calendaring system thanks to the Amateur Sports Act of 1978 (Ted Stevens Act). Unless USHJA moved on from USEF, we are required to comply. With 2021 being an olympic year, I would think it would be even more important for them to uphold this - COVID or not.
Now, a smart person would look at the demographics and would ask why on earth this membership is subject to an NGB? The majority of the membership ride hunters, which isn’t even remotely an international sport, let alone an olympic one. When you question this, we get all sorts of arguments about “welfare” of the horse and “protection” of the junior riders. Is USEF really the only organization that can provide this? NO.
Why are hunter riders paying the price for an olympic event they will never attend? Jumpers are 37% of Zone 4, where WEC Ocala is located. So the remaining 63% of USHJA participants need to abide by rules that were never even meant for them. It’s absurd. People have asked WHY we can’t defect from the USEF and let them focus on managing the Olympic development programs geared at those top tier riders, etc… They were meant for the elite of the sport, anyway. Why not let them play in their own sandbox with their monopolistic rules and let the rest of us move on to enjoy the benefits of competition from the free-market?
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I’m not that familiar with Ocala. What were the first three facilities? Hits, Florida Horse Park, and…?
This is precisely my problem. The early press releases from WEC were very very misleading … in all the online talk, I seem to be the Lone Ranger in pointing that out. They also flat out assured some trainer friends of mine they would presumably have A ratings. I don’t like the deception.
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The Grand Oakes, which is absolutely a lovely place. It is ever so slightly south of the FHP in Weirsdale. It has adorable cabins, charming barns, a covered and rings, and puts on a great show in a smaller resort atmosphere. The horses all seem to breathe a sigh of relief when you get there - as do we. It’s a non “commercial” feeling show and is such a lovely experience.
While they don’t do rated hunter shows (because there are two other facilities) Ocala now has a 4th facility competing for everyone’s dollar. They do offer unrated shows and even have a grass ring which always makes for a fun hunter derby experience. I attended Dressage Under the Oaks there this summer and fell in love with the whole experience - it just feels like a vacation. We’ve been trying to go back for a local show just for the heck of it, it’s so relaxing.
I love the WEC Ocala idea. I wish it was in a different place where the mileage rule would have been more of a non-issue. And being in Ocala doesn’t exactly make it accessible. There were other places that would have been more accessible to a broader audience that wouldn’t have encountered this mileage rule. It’s a shame as it’s such a missed opportunity. But maybe it’s what really needed to happen for all of us - to have someone with the power and financial backing to truly disrupt the industry and turn it all upside down to make a change for the better? I still don’t see how this will make showing that much more affordable - but that remains to be seen.
A local breed show had to reschedule this summer due to COVID. The only date that worked was right on top of a next door region. Both shows sent letters to the USEF asking if it was ok to waive the mileage rule. People were desperate to show and qualify for finals. USEF said no. No exceptions. Next year the show is not running as a USEF show.
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The thing is the “calendaring system” doesn’t mean there can’t be competing events. The requirement was aimed at correcting disorganization among amateur sports leagues. But the mileage rule, to my understanding, predates this requirement. USEF has simply used that requirement to engage in anticompetitive behavior with the blessing of Congress as well as the courts who have taken up the issue.
According to Mary Babick, too much competition can run everyone out of business. I guess this has happened in some crowded areas in the northeast. Not crowded enough for as many shows as popped up, and so many of them failed. And so, USEF draws some hard lines on the mileage rule. This has a big impact out west where the rule applies as the crow files and doesn’t take into account that travel may be more difficult when mountain ranges are involved. And what happened here in CO, where basically one rated show can happen at a time in the entire state, is we became reliant on one venue. When that venue was mostly abandoned in favor of pumping more money into Tryon etc., now what do we do? Maybe the rule is good in New Jersey but not everywhere.
But there is a middle ground between zero competition and unsustainable competition. And this is where some exceptions to the mileage rule make sense. Especially given the current pandemic climate where cancellations happen left and right.
I used to show at the “old” HITS Ocala. It was fine. It wasn’t WEF, but it was closer and I didn’t have to pay WEF prices. Sure there were trees in the ring and sometimes large puddles where ruts were made in the “grass,” but I have been to “new” HITS once, several years ago now, and it was awful. Still under water even with fancy modern footing.
Without any competition, there is no incentive for some managers to strive to offer an adequate and safe product much less a good one.
I think it’s great that WEC is committed to offering a better product and for finding a way to let its customers in. Ocala may be getting crowded, but it’s a start. There are several other parts of the country that could use this kind of competition and facelift.
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USEF certainly has some Good Ol Boy issues but it does also have a lot of legal obligations that are easy to gloss over. I appreciate Mary Babick for many reasons, and one is that she goes out of her way to give out some of this context while also being smart about what we really need.
In general, it’s the intent of the Ted Stevens Act establishing NGBs to create an overarching organization that does reach down to the very beginning levels of every sport. That is why USET had to merge with AHSA back in the day. If you look at most other sports, they’re integrated in such a way that the NGB is involved all the way to the earliest levels of the sport - for example the gym where my daughter did gymnastics as a 5-year-old was a member of USA Gymnastics, and the rink where I took beginning figure skating lessons is a member of USFSA. The idea of the NGB concept is that it is meant to not have a big abrupt shift to a new organization when athletes get to the national/elite levels.
The USEF/AHSA mileage rule predates the Ted Stevens Act by a LOT.
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But if you look at other sports, you will not see a child competing in an entirely different discipline (hunters) working their way up to the olympics. Soccer is soccer. Figure skating is figure skating. They have the same goals and judging through the levels. I don’t know of a single other Olympic sport that thinks and ENTIRELY different discipline is a building block for an olympic athlete.
We have been brainwashed in this country to believe the path to Olympic riding success is to start in the hunters, then go to the equitation division, and then the jumpers, while every other country has littles jumping courses on pony jumpers to make their way to the top. We are the only country with a “foundation” in hunters. I’m not going to argue efficacy of the program, etc… Kids can get the same foundation from other classes, which USEF can gladly manage. Instead of pony hunters, it could be a series of pony jumpers and equitation classes for those future Olympic bound athletes.
The Ted Stevens act isn’t really necessary for hunters, and we are paying the price for it. A forward thinker would find a way out of this mess. I have never heard of a soccer player who can’t play affordable soccer because of a mileage rule…
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Tell that to Mary Babick, as this was the excuse of the week in the communication to the membership.
Opinion from Leslie Howard and her husband Peter, who is an attorney. https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/usef-is-missing-a-halleys-comet-opportunity
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IIRC once the decision was made to include hunters and hunt seat eq in the discipline affiliate that includes jumpers, that made hunters and eq fall under the umbrella of the NGB for equestrian. Probably not explaining this too well.
Getting hunters and eq out from under the umbrella would require a split of disciplines from USHJA and at least one more organization.
There are a lot of other USEF disciplines that are even further removed from the Olympic diciplines: American Saddlebreds, Shetland, Hackney, etc. But they all come under the same mileage rule.
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My point is that there is really no reason for the USHJA to continue to be affiliated with the USEF. Also, there is no reason for any of those organizations to stay. I am beginning to understand why the American Driving Society bailed. The others you mentioned as well as USHJA can do the same - it would be better than just complaining and blaming USEF for everything. The USHJA is not a tree. It can leave. It doesn’t want to. And even if it did, I doubt much would change. I think USEF is their favorite scapegoat to be frank. And I get that - nobody wants to upset the upper echelon. The Bloombergs, Gochmans, Betsee Parker and the like. That’s fine. The rest of us don’t need to play in their sandbox. Quite frankly, their HITS Ocala sandbox sucks (although I do realize they are at WEF, you get the point).
The reality is that we have all been invited to play in a much nicer sandbox. In fact, it’s the best facility in the entire country. We just need to leave our extremely abusive parent organization to get to use it. This is a bit of a test of codependence. Are we so rooted in silly USHJA/USEF ribbons and coolers and “awards” that we will have our precious horses live in sloppy accommodations all to outshow, outhorse and outspend everyone else to get the points we need to win a zone or HOTY award? Or do we care about our horses, care about where they lay their heads and night, and care about how devoted our host is to our horses vs their almighty pocketbook?
I paid into a green hunter incentive program that didn’t really happen last year. Do you think I got a refund? That is how crooked this organization is. Where is the money?
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Which is why the NSBA has such a great opportunity here. Everyone is talking about why things are the way they are and why they need stay the same or how hard it would be to change things instead of imagining the possibilities and coming up with an innovative solution. Most of us are tired of the same old same old excuses. CHANGE IS HARD.
Yet NSBA/WEC jumped in and pretty much whipped up a solution in a few weeks with out of the box thinking. So fine, if nobody is willing to reconfigure or rethink USHJA then it can stay the way it is. No big deal. Nice to see the NSBA jumping up, extending open arms to all these hunter folks and inviting us in. I mean, they are literally changing their rules in 2 weeks.
What a slap in the face that the USHJA survey this week didn’t even address this emerging situation. Are they just going to stick their head in the sand and ignore it? All they care about is who is showing rated shows this year. Same old, same old…
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