Lady - I read your post, and It is for all the reasons you posted, that dressage style score sheets and scribes would be a much better way to go. Each movement has a value, and the rest could be covered in collectives. The score sheet that you posted was pretty ridiculous.
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Well what consequences have there been for Kelley Farmer, Larry Glefke and Scott Stewart?
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I simply tried to explain why scoring hunters is different than scoring dressage. Those scoresheets I posted are NORMAL hunter score cards that a hunter judge marks. As an FYI, one of those āpretty ridiculousā hunter scorecards was completed and judged by Julie Winkel, who is arguably one of North Americaās top hunter judges, clinician and trainer. There is no point in you and I arguing over this as it is clear you are not familiar with hunters. I encourage you to learner judge with a reputable hunter judge so that you can learn more about hunters before trying to argue points that do not apply to the sport of show hunters.
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@Nickelodian
This is what the NSBA rulebook currently states regarding illegal meds:
- No person shall cause to be administered internally or externally, to a horse, either before or during an approved event, any medication, drug, mechanical device or artificial appliance which is of such character as could affect its performance or appearance at that event, EXCEPT FOR THOSE CONDITIONALLY PERMITTED THERAPEUTIC MEDICATIONS, THE USE OF WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY PROVIDED FOR IN THE THERAPEUTIC MEDICATION SUBSECTION OF THIS RULE AND NOT OTHERWISE PROHIBITED BY GOVERNMENTAL REGULATIONS. Upon discovery of administration of such 40 NSBA drug, medication, mechanical device or artificial appliance, show management shall immediately report the matter to NSBA. Any action or substance administered internally or externally, whether drugs or otherwise, which may interfere with the testing procedure and/or detection of any foreign substance to mask or screen the presence of such drug, is forbidden. a) Presence of such medication or drug in a horse participating in an NSBA-approved event shall be grounds for the Executive Committee or other appropriate committee of the Association to take the following action. If it is determined that the use of said drug or medication was not within the guidelines set in the Therapeutic Medication section of this rule: 1) The horse shall be disqualified from all classes in which it participates at the show; 2) Ban the owner, exhibitor and/or absolutely responsible party from participation in future NSBA-approved events for such period as determined and/or be fined or penalized as determined by the Executive Committee or other appropriate committee. b) It is presumed that the sample of urine, saliva, blood or other substance tested by the approved laboratory to which it is sent is the one taken from the horse in question, and its integrity is preserved. All procedure of such collection and preservation, transfer to the laboratory, and analysis of the sample are correct and accurate, and that the report received from the laboratory pertains to the sample taken from the horse in question. It correctly reflects the condition of the horse during the event in which he/she was entered, with the burden on the exhibitor or other responsible party to prove otherwise at any hearing in regard to the matter conducted by the NSBA. c) Presence of such medication or drug in a horse participating in a NSBA-approved event shall be grounds for the appropriate committee of the Association to take the following action: The horse and the individual(s) responsible for the condition of the horse shall forfeit any points, prizes and/or earnings earned at that NSBA show, ban the responsible individual(s) from participation in further NSBA-approved events or shows for such periods as determined appropriate
So the horse with a positive has to forfeit prize money and a possible ban from showing. Granted right now that may not have the teeth that we would all like to see, itās at least something and in my experience the stock breed associations and shows act quite a lot faster on positive tests than Iāve ever heard of USEF acting. Everyone Iāve known who participated in drugging and was caught in AQHA and NSBA shows is still banned and I quit showing there in about 2003.
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Just saw a horse ad on FB noting the horse (a warmblood) is both USEF and NSBA registered - definitely the first time Iāve seen that!
Considering the size of the place now, I wonder what it would look like after an expansion??
That may be so, but it gives the competitor absolutely no information to inform their future training.
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Which is why hunter shows do not post the score cards for competitors to view and riders discuss their rounds with their trainer. 
As I explained in my initial post above, the short hand used on the judgeās score card is for the judgeās reference only. Competitors do not get to view the judgeās cards.
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It is my understanding NSBA currently tracks and posts horse records based on earnings which can be found on the NSBA website here: https://www.nsba.com/nsba-horse-earnings and all NSBA show results are also posted on the website. NSBA has a relationship where they share show results and earnings with breed organizations as well as EquiStat and Robin Glenn pedigrees. Seems to me, they are quite competent at maintaining records for their competitions.
As for horse eligibility, for AQHA and similar stock horse shows, eligibility is based on a combination of points and earnings. NSBA currently tracks both, with eligibility based on results as of December 31 of the previous year. Language in the current rule book indicates: " All monies are considered as recorded by NSBA, the recognized breed alliance partners, EquiStat and Robin Glenn Pedigrees." Although these are terms breed associations use, as I understand it, similar language will be included in the 2021 handbook to address the Hunter Jumper division.
The NSBA rule book is available online here: https://www.nsba.com/nsba-rulebook. When I asked, it sounded like the new rule book is usually published online in December and available for hard copy purchase late December or early January.
The majority of the expansion is commercial, retail and hotels Farmettes will be available starting at $1.5 milliong. For three acres. The house is extra.
Except all that tells you is a broad total of 3 categories. If Iām horse shopping and looking at past results for Dobbin, I canāt tell from that whether it won $5000 from one really good show, or finishing 6th in a show every week for a year. I donāt know whether it was ridden by a pro in the 4ā workings or an amateur in the 2ā6" section. I donāt even know if itās still eligible green, because thereās no indication how long itās been showing, or in what divisions. It doesnāt tell you anything about the breed/breeding of the horse, or itās rider/owner history.
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DUH !
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And hereās the other concern I have; which is that NSBA has no idea what hornetās nest itās just walked into. I donāt know what a typical ācompetitiveā NSBA horse goes for, but associations that try to sit down horses that have a few hundred thousand dollars invested in them have not had an easy go at it. And have spent gobs of monies legislating those cases. Are the NBSA coffers ready to take on the likes of KF & LG & BN on speed-dial retainer? Yup, USEF bungled that whole thing, but Iām doubtful that the NBSA testing procedure is any more flawless, and at least USEF was able to spend the money to try and make it right.
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This. I donāt understand after all the haranguing on the drug rules people canāt understand why this is such a problem. Without the threat/fear of a drug test infraction, without at very least the threat/fear of the public humiliation, drugs will absolutely run rampant. The % actually tested is always always very small. Itās the random sampling method, and the fear of the outcome that keeps people honest (like and audit from the IRS). Without that, I truly do worry about horse welfare.
I got into an argument on fb about this very thing. And what was even more horrifying to me is that I was told I shouldnāt care about the potential drug infractions because they wonāt affect me since Iām not showing at the shows. I stated that this was not just a level playing field issue, but a horse welfare issue. I was laughed at.
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USEF just sent an email out about the WEC shows. Apparently because of the NSBA partnership, theyāre stripping all the weeks of USEF approval and pulling the recommendation for the week of FEI jumping.
Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Especially since Iām guessing many fewer folks than usual will be doing FL this year anyway due to COVID.
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LOL. USEFās email is in response to WEC beating them to press with a straight up YOU GET A STALL and YOU GET A STALL and YOU GET A STALL Oprah style whammy.
Thatās right. Free stalls for every horse at WEC Ocala, and a giant middle finger to USEF.
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USEF really knows how to shoot themselves in the foot, donāt they? Tone deaf doesnāt even begin to cover it.
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WEC just keeps looking better and better to me. Iām not trying to qualify for anything. Iām trying to go to a show and have fun while my horse isnāt crammed like a sardine in an overpriced āstallā with a pole on the middle of it that floods in the rain.
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The free stalls come at a price of reducing the āprize money and prizesā offered during the circuit ā that goes from $10MM to $4MM.
Yea but if I biff it or fall off or am not fast enough in a 30 horse class, I donāt get any prize money either way. $250 less a week no matter what? Thatās pretty much prize money.
USEF stripping WEC of all four weeks is a MAJOR āsucker in the dirtā tantrum for a guy thatās been great to the organization and around for a long time. Iām sure FEI will pull too, which is unfortunate, but Iād hope they Ignore USEFā tantrum and go ahead with what will definitely be a well run show no matter what, at a world class facility.
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