Most big shows (and small) do this, eventers pay in full and if the weather blows and it is cancelled- oh well. Maybe they get a schooling day.
I hope your horses are healthy and remain-so, but WEC is hardly the only show that has this standard.
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I think her point was that the state issued a quarantine that’s why she couldn’t go. I think everyone missed the point here. It wasn’t her choice, it was a state issued quarantine. Maybe I misread …
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KobeTrixie57 - that’s exactly my point. It is a state mandated quarantine and I am following the rules to be respectful of my fellow competitors. I would like that if there is mandate put on you by the state, the horse show would respect those guidelines as well and issue a credit for the stalls. We want people to follow the rules and keep everyone safe, not cheat and lie, just to make sure they don’t loose their money/stall fees.
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Instead of solely blaming the show management, maybe try writing a letter to USEF, explaining the predicament, and expressing your opinion that perhaps this is something that could be addressed by USEF legislation. As it stands right now, even though you are under a state mandated quarantine, there is no ruling saying show management has to refund any money. While it won’t get your money back for this show, perhaps it could help people in the future.
For example, if it were within the USEF rule book saying “exhibitors forced to cancel attendance at a show due to their state veterinarian’s mandated quarantine are entitled to a full refund from show management, including but not limited to stalls, entry fees, office fees, etc. Exhibitors must provide a signed statement from their state veterinarian to be eligible for said refund.” then you would have a leg to stand on here. Because there is no such mandate, and as already posted it is in the rules outlined by WEC that there are no stall refunds, I think in this case you need to just eat the stall fee and move on with your plans. Sure it sucks that you’re out the stall fee, but I don’t think you can say that WEC doesn’t care about EHV-1 orders just because they won’t refund your money.
Again, it’s not going to help you here, but just maybe (especially if enough people write to USEF with the same statement) something could change in the future.
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Sarah616 - I actually did reach out to both the USHJA and the USEF to express my concern because I completely agree with you. While it might not change the current situation, maybe by me addressing this with the USHJA and USEF and bringing this to the attention of my fellow exhibitors, there could be new policies and procedures to handle situations like this.
Send them a message saying that since they won’t refund your money even though there’s a state mandated quarantine, you will be coming with your EHV-1 positive horses to show.
I can bet you they will refund your money real fast after that message gets sent
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Issuing threats you have no intention of following through on is futile, and also makes her the ass in this story.
I get that WEC is a Big Fancy Circuit that could probably absorb your stall fees with little harm, but I think a USEF mandate to this affect would deter all kinds of smaller shows from even hosting events. I’m sure this is annoying & frustrating, but I’m not sure it’s a get-on-the-internet-and-raise-hell injustice. Especially when a barn mate just lost a horse and any chance to show at all.
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I did receive a response from the USEF.
"Thank you for contacting USEF regarding the World Equestrian Center Winter Classic #16 (#337028). I am sorry to hear you were unable to attend this competition due to a positive EHV-1 case in your barn that unfortunately resulted in the euthanasia of a horse. The USEF appreciates the commitment to the safety and welfare of the equine athletes which you demonstrated by not participating in this competition and risking further spread.
*Please understand that USEF permits competition management to create their own refund policies per GR911, ‘A Licensed Competition may adopt its own policy covering the refunding of fees to an exhibitor who cancels his entries after the official closing date and prior to the competition’s beginning.’ *
*I have attached the World Equestrian Center Winter Classic prize list to this email for your reference. The following statement in the prize list outlines the World Equestrian Center’s guidelines for stabling refunds: “Stall counts must be finalized 28 days prior to the show. Tack stalls do not need to be prepaid. After the closing date stalls are not refundable…” this statement can be found on page 4 under the ‘closing dates’ section. In addition, the prize list also states on page 7, “Canceled stalls will not be refunded for any reason if cancelled inside of 28 days before the show.” *
While your situation is certainly a highly unfortunate circumstance, competition management reserves the right to enforce their refund policy for cancellations within the 28-day period. USEF appreciates your prioritization of equine safety and welfare, and we wish all the best for you and others in your barn during the quarantine and that all horses remain virus-free."
I have to ask though, shouldn’t horse management and the USEF prioritize equine safety and welfare? I am being punished by doing the responsible thing. I would think that the USEF and WEC would want to encourage people to take the necessary precautions and stay home, quarantine and stop the spread of this deadly virus. Instead a precedence has been set to lie and still continue to horse show. I would never jeopardize my fellow competitors or their equines, but as we have seen in the past, many people do not care and do not care what they need to do win or chase points. Moving forward I will now worry the next horse show I attend might be the one that gets my horse sick, because the people at the top don’t really care about the their welfare.
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I don’t think it’s futile. Maybe it would make them see how ridiculous their policy is in this circumstance, and how dangerous it is to have a policy such as this in place.
USEF and WEC having this stance on disease comes across as very tone deaf considering COVID. Almost every business was understanding of disease during the pandemic and was ok with offering exchanges or refunds when someone tested positive, because you don’t want to punish people for doing the right thing or end up with asymptomatic but positive people just attending events anyways.
The other thing about this that is so foolish is that if a horse comes to their facility and is positive with EHV1 then the whole place has to be quarantined, which is going to loose them a lot more money than refunding stalls for horses who are coming from high risk areas.
If this was a situation where she decided she didn’t want to show, her horse was lame, etc, then I’d completely understand their refund policy. But this is an infectious disease. It’s very tone deaf. USEF and WEC can do better.
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I suspect this falls under the same heading as having theater tickets or a vacation planned and getting a positive Covid test or having to quarantine because someone else did, thereby missing the event.
Or getting rear ended and spending hours arranging to get car repaired, dealing with rental cars, and not getting reimbursed for all of it for months. Still better than getting rear ended and badly hurt or killed.
Years ago I had to scratch a show bc of lameness. I got most of my deposit back, but not my stall, which was in a permanent barn. Their logic was that they had to pay the facility up front for X number of stalls before the event. So no refunds despite the fact that the facility wasn’t sold out and they didn’t have to pay to temporary stalls.
Definitely sucks though.
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This has always been the policy and it has always sucked. But that’s part of the price we pay to show at such a nice facility, with great footing, stabling, wash stalls etc. You don’t like it, but it was very clear in their prize list and anyone who has shown there in the last 15 years can tell you-you are not getting that stall money back.
I can’t imagine the blowback that would have happened if someone did not do the right thing and brought an exposed horse knowingly to WEC just because they didn’t want to lose the $175. I can’t think of anyone I know personally that would do that! Everyone I know would be home frantically worried about their horse.
I hope your horse and barn mates horses stay healthy-scary stuff!
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Or the price you pay to show at a crappy facility! Same thing happened to me at HITS Ocala (circuit stall) and Culpeper. Was I bitter? Hell yes!!! Did I make juvenile threats about bringing a contagious horse to a venue? Of course not, because … adulting. And I didn’t need additional USEF regulations to enforce adulting, but I’m not gonna lie, I told the trainer to use the stall as a storage stall or just put some lawn chairs and a beer cooler in it so it wasn’t sold to another competitor. I’m fine with paying for it, but I’ll be damned if show management is getting paid TWICE for it!
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I read WEC’c actions differently - I read them as adhering to their stated refund policy, and not as encouraging owners or trainers to lie in an effort to avoid losing stall fees, but as allowing owners and trainers to be truthful, moral participants who would not wish to spread disease.
The burden is on us, as owners or trainers, to do the right thing, even when we are not rewarded for it or recognized. Would you risk exposing hundreds of horses to EHV just to avoid losing your stall fees? WEC is relying on us to do the right thing and say no.
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I dunno–I think USEF’s response was too sided to the Horse Show Manager Mafia. I think the association needs to adjust the rules, and quickly. When you reserve a hotel room, you still have a certain timeline where you can cancel and not be held accountable for the money. In this case the state is telling the OP to stay put. It’s not like the OP is scared of risking an EHV1 exposure and decided to not go. She lawfully does not have a choice-state mandate! I feel like show management has to get on board with yhe EHV situation, and the association needs to be a lot more exhibitor friendly–been having this argument for a few years now.
Why not a rule that says if you cancel your horses stalls because of a state mandate, at least one week prior to the date of the show, then in that case stall fees would be refunded. I think the OP makes good points.
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That would be great, but of course hotels don’t just offer those last minute cancellations for free, costs are increased accordingly - either across the board or for rooms with cancellation fees. It also varies depending on the location and competition, but there are plenty of hotels that do not offer last minute cancellations, but you can buy travel insurance.
That’s actually a better plan given EHV-1. It would be interesting to see how much it would cost to insure the entire usef membership for certain types of late-minute cancellations such as EHV1 or strangles quarantine, etc. Something not quite as common as lameness cancellations, but still could represent a financial loss to the horse showing membership. It would be an even better marketing idea if USEF just added it as baseline coverage as part of membership, assuming it was inexpensive enough to be absorbed financially.
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It sucks, but horse shows are a business after all.
SO and I were supposed to go to the aquarium today with BIL, SIL and the kids. Because of capacity restrictions due to COVID we purchased our tickets ahead of time. We did this knowing that they have a no refund policy. The other family picked up a stomach bug and we didn’t feel like going by ourselves so our group is out a few hundred dollars.
Did we complain to management or threaten to show up with sick people? No of course not, it’s a clearly stated policy and we’re mature adults.
You take a risk when you book something ahead of time. Sometimes it doesn’t work out.
If there’s that much concern about people ignoring quarantines than maybe the answer is harsher penalties for those people. That would deter the points chasers and unethical trainers and owners more than a stall refund.
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There’s a big difference between a law telling OP that she cannot take her horse and deciding you don’t feel like going/getting a cold.
Did COVID teach the world nothing? If given two options between doing the right thing or doing the easy thing people almost never choose the right thing.
Same goes here. Do we really expect every person who has had a horse exposed to EHV1 or is coming from a locked down state will just throw their hands in the air and say oh well, guess I’ll loose money and not show? I doubt it.
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Agreed… I think the thread about EHV in California supports your thoughts.
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The difference between many of the hypos here and the OP’s situation is that a legal mandate prevents her from taking her horse to the show. This is not her choice (though staying home would be the right one even without the mandate). This makes this more of a force majeure situation than many of the hypos being compared.
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Galway Downs is giving full refunds if your facility is placed under mandatory quarantine for EHV/EHM.
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