Weird situation with new horse - rearing

Hi tohorse - Question for you. This horse came from a dressage barn. I’m curious how did you ride your horses on the flat? I mean was there any emphasis on say lateral work, bending, softness transitions? I have learned a hard but good lessons. For the dressage videos they trot them back and forth on a wall same with canter. I did have them ride him outside and asked for a long loose rein. They did this for about 1 minute and I wouldn’t say it was a floppy rein. In retrospect I should have asked ride him on the buckle for the entire ride outside…period. I think I would have seen a bit of a different horse. My guess is he would have been great for the first 30 minutes but come 40 minutes he would have started spooking. But again you area right a tall guy was riding him in every video. I also wish I could have had them do a little trail ride hack but it seems at these european barns there isn’t a lot of places to “hack” outside the arena’s…and the weather was pissing rein in the videos.

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I’m not sure whether my experience (riding jumpers) will transfer well to a dressage barn, because my impression has always been that dressage riders liked to “drill” their horses a bit more. In this specific pro barn, the rides were very simple.

The horses were actually quite simple to ride - the main principles were to drive the horse with legs & seat on the bit, where the hands (and seat) provides the counter aid to contain the energy in the front. Turning was inside leg to outside rein. You’d push the horse in the corner with your inside leg and provide the counteraid with the rein. Very very simple…

The flat rides were pretty much riding around the arena, some circles, direction changes wtc. Maybe some extension in trot on the long line in you felt like it. Walk was for rest. Most work was done on canter, where you’d really focus on two things - “spring” and adjustability. Here’s Markus Ehning’s warm up, which looks a lot like a typical flat session we’d do… https://youtu.be/uJNjr-O7AOc If you watch you can see how he basically does a few laps in trot, then really focuses on simple things in canter after a quick warm up on a “longer” rein - changing the tempo, stride length, “collection”. See how deep is the seat - at some points he’s pulling the rein, sitting back and having the spur deep into the sides (see e.g. 3:12) and the horse is round like a ball- that’s what you’d call a pretty springy canter that activates all those hind end muscles neccessary to carry the weight of yourself and a beast like ME over a 1.60 fence :laughing:. Very VERY different from your average American Hunter pair. I mean day and night different. How many of us could ride like this today?

Most horses were taught lateral work, but it was never really practiced. Later work was more about whether the horse responds to the leg aid than anything else. I mean sure, I’d throw in a leg yield across diagonal every two weeks or do a flying change when changing direction on a diagonal, but I wasn’t too worried about quality and would never drill it. We’d never do any complex exercises with ground poles, transitions, 10m circles (lol) or flying changes. If I’d ever do that the pro’s wife would kick me out for drilling the poor ponies :laughing:

What you’d really strive for on your flat sessions was to get the horse have that spring in their step and adjustability in canter without losing impulsion - two really important things to get the horse to jump the heights. I’d probably do shortening and lengthening of the stride along the line pretty much every session on every horse, unless he was so green that I had to work myself to maintain a steady tempo which comes first. So in practice lots and lots and lots of leg with a deep seat and very liberal hand - as much as the horse needed for counter pressure.

Riding on the buckle was reserved to cooling off / breaks. Long-low I’d do maybe for a circle around the arena after a tough jump school. You’d technically warm up with a longer rein, but not long enough for the horse to stretch their neck (See video again). That’s what walk is for.

The biggest difference I see between US and European horses is actually in the seat. So many horses, especially OTTBs/hunters horses react negatively when I just try to sit in the saddle. I think a lot of European horses would take that lack of seat or crest release over jumps as if I’m half falling down and lose confidence especially in combination with a loose rein and no/little leg. Freedom can be overwhelming.

Edited to add that we’d hack maybe once a year and on experienced or deprioritized horses only. If a buyer would ask for a hack video, I think people would think it’s a strange request. Same with the loose rein. This could obviously vary from place to place. When I rode green horses later at a breeding farm, I’d hack them very frequently as I found it helped later with shows, colourful fences etc., but most places wouldn’t have time for this because you’re on a schedule to ride 5-10 horses a day so half hour each.

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This made me LOL. I bought a decently experienced European horse. The rider for the sales video had practiced a tiny bit of half seat enough to make the video but otherwise never really rode the horse that way. And his previous rider for forever was a bigger dude. While his personality is perfect for the hunters (his favorite thing is to stop and talk and take a nap), the first time I tried to get him forward by getting into 2 point, I swear he raised up his neck, cocked his head and rolled an eyeball back at me and started to stop, as if to ask, you ok up there? You do know how to stay on, right? :laughing:

But he absolutely loves a crest release. And bonus points if I float the reins a couple strides out. He figured that part out real quick as something that feels like less effort.

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At one point when I was riding in a dressage barn, one of the auction riders from PSI came over for a month or so to ride and observe in a US barn. Petite, cute, young looking. And one of the most effective, bravest riders I’ve ever watched. Could and would get on anything and make it look good and like she wasn’t doing much of anything.

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@tohorse thank you for sharing all of that. I think that many riders looking at importing european horses have a really clear grasp of what you shared. They see a catty, athletic, “wow” horse and do not realize that the way they envision riding the horse is so different from how the horse was started. I think this disconnect explains a lot of the disappointment or perceived dishonesty, especially from first time buyers or more timid riders.

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You are getting lots of great advice here but I just want to add… talk to someone near you who imports A LOT of horses. They will already know how to solve the problem, who to use, etc. No use reinventing the wheel. I would do this before I started sending the horse out.

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@tohorse is spot on. The seat is a huge difference in the riding style, especially if you are importing from Germany, the Netherlands, France, eastern Europe. Ireland and England are totally different beasts and I have no experience there. And yup, any video of a little petite girl jumping a horse in Europe in an American huntseat style of riding will bring you big bucks as a seller. Ask me how I know. :wink:

It is honestly buyer beware unless you go to Europe to sit on a bunch of horses and you speak the language and you have personal contacts over there. Not necessarily because the Europeans are trying to fleece Americans (although of course that happens unfortunately), but usually because the military style of riding (for lack of a better words) at the big breeding & sales barn is nothing like what you have here in the US, other than maybe at one of the big sales barns that is constantly importing young horses & flipping them in the states. Looking at a recent import on American soil will give you a better idea of what you really are getting, but of course the price goes up vs importing direct from Europe. Canada and some of the Latin American countries are often decent alternatives to Europe. Of course with covid, travel restrictions has changed everything. Having said that, many horses adapt to American style riding but will never feel secure in the 2 point hunting over fences - and with one with a rearing problem, perhaps you don’t want to be up over the shoulder all the time for safety reasons.

Anyway , @piperluvshorses I hope things are going better for you guys! It sounds like your guy enjoys the jumping vs the dressage and this is probably the best home for him. Hang in there through the growing pains!

omg!!! you are brilliant!
I can’t express enough how much i love this post!!

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Agree to this and @tohorse I have not read all the comments in depth, but IMO, OP wants a hunter/jumper and bought a dressage horse who has been trained AND used to contact while being ridden. I feel the horse may have been a problem and Europe which wasn’t disclosed and the OP is gobsmacking him with confusion with a complete different style of riding and experiences. I suggest if it hasn’t been suggested, the OP take some dressage lessons with a credible trainer and then start peeling the onion.

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There are absolutely huge differences in the feed, stabling, maintenance & riding styles between the US and Europe, but I have never had a horse exhibit a vice like rearing because of them. It is common to import young dressage horses as hunters. You will absolutely get this worked out with the right help. It’s critical to nip it in the bud. Luckily you are in a part of the country with a lot of fantastic trainers.

Interesting to add that many Europeans will tell you that these sale horses start living their best lives in the US. Our standard of care is usually much higher than what a horse that is not on a trainer’s top string gets (feed, showing, paddock fencing, vet maintenance). Young horses that come from fancy European sales barns often start with backyard breeders that keep them in their back yard on tiny lots with hurricane fencing. That’s how the sale barns can afford to resell at prices lower than the states for young, well-bred prospects.

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