weirdest crosses you've seen/heard of

[ladyj79]

I’m going to sound like a complete jerk, and I promise jdeboer01, it is not my intent, but having spent lots and lots of time with wb breeders and professional riders, many of them would (and do) say the same about crossing Friesians and Warmbloods, or Friesians and anything. Or Friesians as sport horses. Or anything that is not a wb, which still isn’t a breed, as sport horses.

I like Friesians. Which is to say I like to look at them, and I have trained and am friends with FEI riders who ride Friesians, so I can’t say I necessarily agree with them, but it is hard to be a breeder of a unique cross that I’m sure you love and your clients probably love and most of us would likely enjoy looking at, if not riding, and make comments about other crosses.

In fact, I looked at a Friesian WB colt in the spring of 2013, and what really kept me from pursuing him was the knowledge that many of the people I train with would not be receptive to me developing this horse for the upper levels. Because in their mind, for good or bad, what I was doing was buying a corrupted WB who was less than the sum of his parts. Maybe I’ll change my mind and end up with something like him, but as with any cross, I will be mindful that there will be people who think I’m an idiot, and that with scoring as it is in dressage, there’s a distinct possibility my horse won’t stack up.

Of course, I’m still opposed to most people breeding…pretty much anything

(Oh, and don’t feel too bad, most of these people hate-hate-hate PRE horses as well. I trained an Andalusian sales horse a few years back and my trainer made fun of me daily because “that horse is for bullfighting, not dressage!”…and he’s NOT alone in his hatred…because apparently to these guys the SRS is engaged in bullfighting.)

[jdeboer01]

[QUOTE=ladyj79;7694135]
I’m going to sound like a complete jerk, and I promise jdeboer01, it is not my intent, but having spent lots and lots of time with wb breeders and professional riders, many of them would (and do) say the same about crossing Friesians and Warmbloods, or Friesians and anything. Or Friesians as sport horses. Or anything that is not a wb, which still isn’t a breed, as sport horses.

I like Friesians. Which is to say I like to look at them, and I have trained and am friends with FEI riders who ride Friesians, so I can’t say I necessarily agree with them, but it is hard to be a breeder of a unique cross that I’m sure you love and your clients probably love and most of us would likely enjoy looking at, if not riding, and make comments about other crosses.

In fact, I looked at a Friesian WB colt in the spring of 2013, and what really kept me from pursuing him was the knowledge that many of the people I train with would not be receptive to me developing this horse for the upper levels. Because in their mind, for good or bad, what I was doing was buying a corrupted WB who was less than the sum of his parts. Maybe I’ll change my mind and end up with something like him, but as with any cross, I will be mindful that there will be people who think I’m an idiot, and that with scoring as it is in dressage, there’s a distinct possibility my horse won’t stack up.

Of course, I’m still opposed to most people breeding…pretty much anything

(Oh, and don’t feel too bad, most of these people hate-hate-hate PRE horses as well. I trained an Andalusian sales horse a few years back and my trainer made fun of me daily because “that horse is for bullfighting, not dressage!”…and he’s NOT alone in his hatred…because apparently to these guys the SRS is bullfighting.)[/QUOTE]

No, you don’t sound like a jerk ladyj79. I’ll be the first one to admit that Friesians are not the ideal dressage horses – by far. But the fact of the matter is, many of their fans want to ride them in dressage. Also, the KFPS (largest purebred registry) has finally begun to include sport ability into their breeding goals and stallion selections rather than just pretty and does it nearly knock it’s teeth out with it’s knees at the trot?. Thing is though, I think they’re too late. There’s not enough variability in it’s own gene pool to do any real improvement to the breed. They already suffer from several genetic issues due to inbreeding. My personal goal is to improve the Friesian horse through bringing in some outside blood. I’m doing what the KFPS really SHOULD be doing. It’s my true hope that someday they’ll reopen the “Hulpboek” and approve some non-Friesian stallions for experimental outcrosses. I find it sad that they would favor breed “purity” over meaningful improvement and health.

[Graymaresrule]

Sophie’s dam Beeza is supposedly Connemara x Trak (Falke) I tried very hard to document her pedigree but couldn’t. It’s a shame since she produced some very nice Irish Draught Sport Horses.

I’ll have to check my old computer for pictures and the very extremely nasty comment from one continental WB breeder concerning her offspring. It was along the lines of "I hope her foals aren’t in some feedlot this very cold December evening.

ahhh es, post 71
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?283917-Spinoff-Experiments-in-breeding/page4&highlight=beeza

and herself https://plus.google.com/photos/103406099668134314917/albums/5462609142849098097/5467746109601587538?banner=pwa&pid=5467746109601587538&oid=103406099668134314917

[ladyj79]

[QUOTE=jdeboer01;7694226]
No, you don’t sound like a jerk ladyj79. I’ll be the first one to admit that Friesians are not the ideal dressage horses – by far. But the fact of the matter is, many of their fans want to ride them in dressage. Also, the KFPS (largest purebred registry) has finally begun to include sport ability into their breeding goals and stallion selections rather than just pretty and does it nearly knock it’s teeth out with it’s knees at the trot?. Thing is though, I think they’re too late. There’s not enough variability in it’s own gene pool to do any real improvement to the breed. They already suffer from several genetic issues due to inbreeding. My personal goal is to improve the Friesian horse through bringing in some outside blood. I’m doing what the KFPS really SHOULD be doing. It’s my true hope that someday they’ll reopen the “Hulpboek” and approve some non-Friesian stallions for experimental outcrosses. I find it sad that they would favor breed “purity” over meaningful improvement and health.[/QUOTE]

Agree with everything, and wish you the best of luck!

Also I want to ride one in dressage haha but my trainer won’t let me.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=ladyj79;7694135]
wb breeders and professional riders, many of them would (and do) say the same about crossing Friesians and Warmbloods, or Friesians and anything. Or Friesians as sport horses. Or anything that is not a wb, which still isn’t a breed, as sport horses.

In fact, I looked at a Friesian WB colt in the spring of 2013, and what really kept me from pursuing him was the knowledge that many of the people I train with would not be receptive to me developing this horse for the upper levels. Because in their mind, for good or bad, what I was doing was buying a corrupted WB who was less than the sum of his parts. (Oh, and don’t feel too bad, most of these people hate-hate-hate PRE horses as well. I trained an Andalusian sales horse a few years back and my trainer made fun of me daily because “that horse is for bullfighting, not dressage!”…and he’s NOT alone in his hatred…because apparently to these guys the SRS is engaged in bullfighting.)[/QUOTE]

Realize this can be a combination of marketing (why would you buy something different from what WE breed) and lack of knowledge. The Euro registries are fabulous marketing machines.

A good horse is a good horse - and not everyone understands that. I know a breeder who does GOV (Oldenburgs) and states that everything else is crap. My horses have beat her horses in every single show where we’ve been up against each other. Without an exception. But in her mind, the GOV is the superior horse. In all cases.

And some trainers are not comfortable working with anything different - every type of horse requires some different tools in the box. If the aren’t familiar w/ how to work with a baroque horse, they are going to push you towards something they ARE familiar with. Or if they’ve worked with ONE bad apple - that is it, the condemn the entire breed.

Many years ago, when I got my first Friesian cross, my trainer was appalled. She learned to love him, did some research on training baroque horses, and even encouraged another student to buy a Friesian some years later. When she was looking for a young horse for herself, she seriously considered one of mine.

I’ve had a few top clinicians, trainers, and breeders work w/ my horses, and they all agree, these are quality animals.

I’ll fully admit, not all Friesians are suited to dressage - but you can’t really deny the results. Those bred for sport are succeeding in sport. Proud Meadows was the “break through” breeder - they had the money for a good trainer, and their stallions showed very successfully. Although still a rare breed, and with a high percent of low level rider owners, the Friesians still make their presence known in the show ring, even into the FEI levels.

If I was headed for the Olympics (hahaha, fat chance there:D), I’d import a Dutch WB, but for a fun, talented ride, give me a Friesian or FX any day. And I’m going to switch trainers if I run into one that says I must ride a WB.

[crthunder]

I rode an Arab/STB gelding in college. Loved him to pieces but what was the thinking behind that cross?
There was a lady north of me trying to start her own breed “friewalkers” by breeding her friesian stallion to TWH mares.
I personally am not a fan of the friesian crosses… Lots of crap out there with soundness issues that are $$$ bc they retained the black and hairy part. Certainly nice ones out there but not my cup of tea!

[Dee-Vee]

I am asking out of curiosity. Why would you cross a Friesian with a QH? What characteristics are you breeding for??

With full due respect for both breeds, they seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum in conformation and job asked of them.

I am a QH person…Appendix to be precise. When it comes to horses, I have always held onto the belief of “what fills your eye”. So it is a stretch for me to understand how a Friesian crosses well with a QH and why you would want to do it…backyard breeding totally aside, that is another issue.

Thank you

[jdeboer01]

@Dee-Vee;7695721

I am asking out of curiosity. Why would you cross a Friesian with a QH? What characteristics are you breeding for??

The vast majority of Friesian x QH (or Paint) crosses are strictly for color, and are marketed virtually 100% of the time as “Friesian cross” rather than “QH cross”. While I’m sure there are some nice ones out there, the thought process behind the cross makes little sense.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Dee-Vee;7695721]
I am asking out of curiosity. Why would you cross a Friesian with a QH? What characteristics are you breeding for??

Thank you[/QUOTE]

Not my area of expertise since it isn’t the type of cross I do… But remember, many people are breeding for family horses. There is more to breeding then the sport horse market. And for someone who wants a prettier, more uphill horse with a bit more flair to their movement, and better feet and bone (and yes, hair) this could be a successful cross. Both breeds tend to have good minds. Those that I’ve seen have been nice, all-around horses that could do a bit of everything, and were very pretty.

As already noted in a previous post, there are also people who cross QH (and Paint and Appy) to Warmblood - again, looking for that great brain, and a nice, all-around horse.

COTH focuses on sport horse breeding - but in the horse breeding world, that is just a tiny niche.

[Dee-Vee]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7695815]
As already noted in a previous post, there are also people who cross QH (and Paint and Appy) to Warmblood - again, looking for that great brain, and a nice, all-around horse.

COTH focuses on sport horse breeding - but in the horse breeding world, that is just a tiny niche.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I had not thought beyond the “sport horse” market. A new perspective.

[jvanrens]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7648430]
Did they put the warmblood on the donkey, or the donkey on the warmblood?

I’ve heard that the foal grows to the size of the uterus and then after birth grows to its genetic capacity…but don’t know if that is true at all. The thought scares me a bit.[/QUOTE]

Donkeys do come quite large, so the cross could be horse/mammoth, so there shouldn’t be an issue with crossing the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mammoth_donkey

[Fred]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7651613]

most TB mares should not be bred, especially track reject horses![/QUOTE]

Many very good breeders would disagree, Mystic Oak.
I hate the dismissive expression ‘track reject’.
The lifespan of any horse on the track is generally short, and when that career is over, if the horse is lucky, he or she may go on to another career.
There are many wonderful mares who come off the track- their pedigrees may not be currently fashionable or commercial in terms of yearling sales.
That is not a reflection of their QUALITY and athleticism, or their value as
superb sporthorse broodmares.
They may in fact, have superb proven sport TB pedigrees.

Of course there are many mares of all breeds who should not be bred.

[ladyj79]

I think we can all agree that while there are certainly tb mares who don’t need to be producing “sport horses”, they kinda don’t fall into the weirdest crosses theme

[jdeboer01]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7695815]

As already noted in a previous post, there are also people who cross QH (and Paint and Appy) to Warmblood - again, looking for that great brain, and a nice, all-around horse.

COTH focuses on sport horse breeding - but in the horse breeding world, that is just a tiny niche.[/QUOTE]

The person who posed the question was referring to Friesian x QH, not Warmblood x QH. There’s a big difference. That aside, I do believe that the breeder of mention is, indeed, marketing their horses as “Sport Horses”.

Also, many of the horses registered by the Friesian Sport Horse Registry are Friesian x QH. (Or Friesian x whatever). They are still ALL being called “Sport Horses” by virtue of the registry name.

[alibi_18]

most of these people hate-hate-hate PRE horses as well. I trained an Andalusian sales horse a few years back and my trainer made fun of me daily because “that horse is for bullfighting, not dressage!”…and he’s NOT alone in his hatred…because apparently to these guys the SRS is engaged in bullfighting.)

The SRS is breeding and riding lipizzaners, not lusitanos or PRE (andalusians).
Bullfighting horses are typically lusitanos.

So far the weirdest horse I’ve seen was a Canadian x Trackehner. The cross itself isn’t weird per say because a lot of people around here cross draft types to lighter breeds (TBs usually) but this one was so badly put together… a big head with protruding eyes, big boned/huge knees and hocks/feet. Tall and long but thin in its body?!? With a short thin neck… Nice mover and gentle giant but always lame… His body couldn’t handle any type of work because he was just a conformation disaster… He got all the bad parts from both sides!!!

[ladyj79]

@alibi_18;7696742

The SRS is breeding and riding lipizzaners, not lusitanos or PRE (andalusians).
Bullfighting horses are typically lusitanos.

Yes, A18, I’m aware of the distinctions, which was kind of the point, because for many riders or trainers of “sport horses”, there is no distinction among baroque horses, or again, as I said in the same comment you are partially quoting, anything that isn’t a wb, even though that’s not a breed, isn’t a sport horse to some people. I’ll try to spell things out more completely in the future, even though jokes are way less funny when they require multiple reiterated explanations.

[Donatella]

[QUOTE=jdeboer01;7696653]
The person who posed the question was referring to Friesian x QH, not Warmblood x QH. There’s a big difference. That aside, I do believe that the breeder of mention is, indeed, marketing their horses as “Sport Horses”.

Also, many of the horses registered by the Friesian Sport Horse Registry are Friesian x QH. (Or Friesian x whatever). They are still ALL being called “Sport Horses” by virtue of the registry name.[/QUOTE]

Haven’t they started calling these type crosses “heritage horses” since they’re not really “sport horses”?

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Fred;7696227]
Many very good breeders would disagree, Mystic Oak.
I hate the dismissive expression ‘track reject’.
The lifespan of any horse on the track is generally short, and when that career is over, if the horse is lucky, he or she may go on to another career.
There are many wonderful mares who come off the track- their pedigrees may not be currently fashionable or commercial in terms of yearling sales.
That is not a reflection of their QUALITY and athleticism, or their value as
superb sporthorse broodmares.
They may in fact, have superb proven sport TB pedigrees.

Of course there are many mares of all breeds who should not be bred.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree w/ your last sentence - and that is my point w/ TB mares too. Way too many people think they can pick up a TB mare for free (or under $1,000 which is essentially free) and breed future race horses or sport horses. Yet, reality is, most of these mares should not be bred. And that really applies to more then just TB mares - it is all breeds. However the race horse industry is ruthless in its culls, and too many people think any TB mare is a suitable sport horse dam. And we all know that isn’t true.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Donatella;7696918]
Haven’t they started calling these type crosses “heritage horses” since they’re not really “sport horses”?[/QUOTE]

Two total different registries. Friesian Heritage Horse has separate books for sport horses and utility horses, recognizing that not all Friesian crosses ARE sport horses. They also offer up inspections, and a horse can only make it into the sport horse book if they meet the sport horse inspection criteria or prove themselves in sport.

In the area of weirdest crosses, I have to say Friesian crosses do NOT corner the market by any means. The PMU industry put out some pretty interesting crosses - Standardbred X Percheron anyone? And gaited horse X ANYTHING - I’ve always wondered why. You often lose the “gaited” but keep some of the funky gaited conformation. Then - one that has puzzled me - there are a few breeders who are doing Mustangs and Mustang crosses. On purpose!?!?!

[mscapen]

Tb\ Icelandic poney

I broke and rode one of those about 20 years ago. Accidental breeding ( or so the story goes): Tb mare left in pasture with Icelandic poney herd Icelandic poney stud found a way.
The result was cute grey really dense coat 15.2 at 4 moved like a charm and had a very large swigny canter. Lovely dude.
Also started riding in my nick of the woods in the days where most horses were grade, they came in all shapes and sizes. Most really nice school horses some we evented with.
One I rode regurlarly was heavier set moved like a sowing machine unless you got him really reved up, but was the neatest jumper I knew.
But one never knew really, one large chesnut mare ( draft body size) had a dish face and moved like a warmblood. We assumed someone bred their belgian to some Arabian ( there were a few stallions in the area).
Warm bloods were non existant in that area in those days.