I have a friend who works for a company that puts in automatic generators in D.C. He says their biggest daily job is replacing worn out motors from the automatic starting every month.
Though not that complicated but to go into complete understandable detail of how to go about sizing a generator and or hooking up a small one would take a bit of time and be longer than most of my comments usually are.
So the short version. IMO anybody that lives in the country should have a generator. When power goes out in the general area due to storm damage. The sparsely populated areas are the last on the list to get power back. Though a bit “grease money” slipped into the right hands can get you moved up the list. Calling and letting the power company know you have lots of livestock in need helps sometime.
A “standby” generator is the way to go. 12kw will power the needs for the majority of most houses and barns. 15kw should take care of everything. Unless the house and barn is loaded with “watt hogs”, electric heat, electric hot water, big frig and freezer, A/C etc. Standby gennys are almost always fueled by natural or LP gas off of a couple hundred gallon tank. Unlike diesel or gas natural or LP gas doesn’t go “bad” even when stored for years. They are not unrealistically priced. They are not difficult to install but the people who do install them tend to be VERRY pricey. More like rape, rob and pillage IMO. I know how to install them. Something like this is pretty good bang for the buck;
For basic needs and to live reasonably comfortable for a week or two this portable genny is very much worth the money
To power up my wells I bought the appropriate size 220 male plug and wired it directly to the cutoff switch on at the pressure tank. Bought X feet of 10-2 wire and connected the correct size male plug for the generator and a female that fits the plug I installed on the pressure switch. Make sure and turn off the breaker for the well pump at the panel in case the power comes back on. It may fry the generator if it does. Though they do have a circuit breaker on them. Fire up the generator first and make sure it is set to 220/240 plug in the pump wire and the pump will come on.
To power basic house needs and or barn needs there are two way to go about it. The best and least hassle is to purchase a Transfer switch which come in different sizes/number of circuits which depends on the size of the genny. The genny plugs into the Transfer switch and "sub circuits run to the breakers needed in the panel. When the power comes back on the Transfer switch will “kick out” the generator power. The genny above delivers 7500 “running” watts to work with and enough Amps to power a lot of things. The first number given 8500 peak watts means it can deliver 85000 watts for a brief time.
High demand eleictric motors may only take X watts to run but to start up more like XXX watts. Like getting on to the freeway you have to “hit” the gas to accelerate to highway speed sucking a lot of gas for a brief time and then the engine “settles” back fuel efficient speed/power output.
I have found most of these types of generators specs do not always hold “true”, a bit over stated.
The average older forced air gas/oil fired furnace blower motor (1/3 hp) needs around 800± to run and around 1400 watts to start up. So on the conservative side that leaves around 6000 watts for other things. A ½ hp well pump will need around 1000 running watts and 2000+ start up watts. So that leaves 4,000 watts for things like lights, each blub has a stated watts needed, that is also used for a “reference” for how “bright” it is. This is a link to the average power demands in the average house.
It just requires figuring out what you need and do the math and make sure you don’t power more than the genny has to offer of the circuit breaker will kick out on the genny. When a high demand is asked the genny will “bog down” and you will hear it. This is normal. The movie Apollo 13 goes into detail about how they figured out how to power up what they needed with very limited power available. They had to figure out the “sequence” of what to power up first so as not to “blow the breaker”.
http://www.lowes.com/projects/pdfs/portable-generator-wattage-chart.pdf
I’ve “lived” reasonably well for over 2 weeks with the above generator in the middle of a very cool winter. Subfreezing 24/7. I had to pick and choose what things I would power at times. Run the frig long enough to keep things cold/frozen which I did during the day when I was out about on the farm and didn’t need to heat the house. Put tanks in the paddocks that had auto waterers. Break the ice out when needed and refill. Lights are no problem because I use low watt bulbs, TV, satellite, computer, cell phone charger, etc. are low demand. Ran the furnace off and on during the day depending on the house temp. I only fired up the generator during the day when needed. Ran it continuously at night and shut it down when I went to bed. Bit of a hassle but far better than no genny.
I plan to install a whole house genny in the near future. But I have been saying that for a number of years now. My wife is not into “roughing it” she goes to her parents’ house because they have a whole house generator.
Wow, awesome feedback!
A generator was on the list when we moved here last year, but got pushed back and last winter, we never lost power. So was moved from the “necessary” column to the “one day” column. Sounds like it needs to go back over.
What’s a little tough about the recommendation of stockpiling some water when we know the weather is going to be bad is that yesterday the weather was beautiful. Sunny, not windy, no weather. No idea why the power went out–maybe someone knocked into something with a tractor?–but really no warning at all.
I do have a single 100 gal trough for my north field, but I’ve been keeping it dry when the horses aren’t out there. I filled it just in case once the power came back on. East enough to keep it full during nice weather. I really wouldn’t mind keeping a couple 55 gallon drums filled for backup somewhere, but don’t want to heat them through the winter. The basement is an option (it’s not finished) but there’s the question of how to get the water out to the horses and also what to do with 110 gallons of water when it’s time to swap it out. My husband suggested the garage…it’s not heated, but does stay warmer than the barn, but my concern is that when we really might need it, it might be during one of those cold snaps and frozen.
We’re on propane and have 150-200 gallon diesel tank for the tractor. I think they do make propane generators…would it be smarter to go that route, or the diesel? Is this something I should talk to an electrician about, or some other professional?
They do make back up generators that run on natural gas, or propane. You will need to figure out what you want the extra panel to operate (well pump, water heater, fridge, freezer, furnace), and the electrician can tell you what size that will require.
Then you can figure out what size propane tank will be needed to operate the generator for the longest time period you think that you could be without power.
I think an electrician who in knowledgeable about your area could tell you what size of generator would work best for your needs, the size of propane tank, and the wiring changes to have the generator come on automatically. Also the biggest factor, the price.
The hard part is if it’s frozen. The Shaker community built a tank house, which was a big water tank on stilts and I think a lot of places had them but nobody remarked on them much, or there was a cistern a few feet down with a hand pump and you hand pumped up to the surface. I can recall really old commode tanks were five feet off the floor.
Shaker village had a tank house and Ward Hall had a roof collector and a third floor multi thousand gallon tank, so there was gravity feed running water in Shakertown and that mansion in the 1800’s. Many windmills used to be set up to fill a tank that then gravity fed a house.
It can be done, the generator is nice for some other things too of course, but get a Honda!
[QUOTE=Simkie;8342184]
Wow, awesome feedback!
A generator was on the list when we moved here last year, but got pushed back and last winter, we never lost power. So was moved from the “necessary” column to the “one day” column. Sounds like it needs to go back over.
What’s a little tough about the recommendation of stockpiling some water when we know the weather is going to be bad is that yesterday the weather was beautiful. Sunny, not windy, no weather. No idea why the power went out–maybe someone knocked into something with a tractor?–but really no warning at all.
I do have a single 100 gal trough for my north field, but I’ve been keeping it dry when the horses aren’t out there. I filled it just in case once the power came back on. East enough to keep it full during nice weather. I really wouldn’t mind keeping a couple 55 gallon drums filled for backup somewhere, but don’t want to heat them through the winter. The basement is an option (it’s not finished) but there’s the question of how to get the water out to the horses and also what to do with 110 gallons of water when it’s time to swap it out. My husband suggested the garage…it’s not heated, but does stay warmer than the barn, but my concern is that when we really might need it, it might be during one of those cold snaps and frozen.
We’re on propane and have 150-200 gallon diesel tank for the tractor. I think they do make propane generators…would it be smarter to go that route, or the diesel? Is this something I should talk to an electrician about, or some other professional?[/QUOTE]
You didn’t say how many horses you have to water. IMO having to haul water is a huge PITA.
If just want to run the well pump and some lights you don’t need a very big generator. I have both pull start and key start. My 15 year old pull start has never been much of a hassle to start. On a really cold day and if it is giving me a hard time I spray a LITTLE bit of starting fluid on the air intake, fires right up.
Duel fuel genny can be had like this one, LP/natural, or gas.
Conversation kits can be had for around $150++ and are easy to install on a gas generator.
Diesel generators cost a lot more. But are better if it is going to be used for extended periods of time and or 24/7.
One things for sure the day will come when you really wished you had bought one. And those will be the days when everybody wants one and you will not find one on sale. If you can find one at all.
[QUOTE=Simkie;8342184]
Wow, awesome feedback!
A generator was on the list when we moved here last year, but got pushed back and last winter, we never lost power. So was moved from the “necessary” column to the “one day” column. Sounds like it needs to go back over.
What’s a little tough about the recommendation of stockpiling some water when we know the weather is going to be bad is that yesterday the weather was beautiful. Sunny, not windy, no weather. No idea why the power went out–maybe someone knocked into something with a tractor?–but really no warning at all.
I do have a single 100 gal trough for my north field, but I’ve been keeping it dry when the horses aren’t out there. I filled it just in case once the power came back on. East enough to keep it full during nice weather. I really wouldn’t mind keeping a couple 55 gallon drums filled for backup somewhere, but don’t want to heat them through the winter. The basement is an option (it’s not finished) but there’s the question of how to get the water out to the horses and also what to do with 110 gallons of water when it’s time to swap it out. My husband suggested the garage…it’s not heated, but does stay warmer than the barn, but my concern is that when we really might need it, it might be during one of those cold snaps and frozen.
We’re on propane and have 150-200 gallon diesel tank for the tractor. I think they do make propane generators…would it be smarter to go that route, or the diesel? Is this something I should talk to an electrician about, or some other professional?[/QUOTE]
If you want to do it right figure out what size genset you need (remember that the standard is “need to have” not “nice to have” or “superfluous”) then get a transfer box properly installed on the building that you will power. If you got the jack go diesel. That’s the easiest fuel to store safely and easily transport. For a fixed unit I’d go propane since you already have a tank and that will burn the cleanest. If money is a barrier, buy a contractor grade gas unit and keep a supply of fuel on hand in a safe place. Keep the generator in a dry location and test run it every month or so except in real cold weather, then do it more often to keep your starter battery charged. If can keep the genset in a warm location that’s even better.
Stockpiling water in really cold climates is a problem. Water during a MN winter frequently becomes ice. Not a good thing if you’ve no power.
Here’s a “quick and dirty” article from somebody who’s not trying to sell you something:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to/a3603/how-to-buy-a-backup-generator/
And one more:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/generators/buying-guide.htm
These guy want to sell you stuff but look it over anyway:
Good luck in your search.
G.
[QUOTE=JanM;8342234]
They do make back up generators that run on natural gas, or propane. You will need to figure out what you want the extra panel to operate (well pump, water heater, fridge, freezer, furnace), and the electrician can tell you what size that will require.
Then you can figure out what size propane tank will be needed to operate the generator for the longest time period you think that you could be without power.
I think an electrician who in knowledgeable about your area could tell you what size of generator would work best for your needs, the size of propane tank, and the wiring changes to have the generator come on automatically. Also the biggest factor, the price.[/QUOTE]
The last link in my first post gives all the “numbers” needed just “check” what you want to power and do the math. Simple addition. This is not rocket science.
To find out what size propane tank is needed most supplier will be able to tell you based on the size of the generator. They usually don’t charge for hook up with a delivery contract.
There are plenty of websites that will do the same.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8342279]
If you want to do it right figure out what size genset you need (remember that the standard is “need to have” not “nice to have” or “superfluous”) then get a transfer box properly installed on the building that you will power. If you got the jack go diesel. That’s the easiest fuel to store safely and easily transport. For a fixed unit I’d go propane since you already have a tank and that will burn the cleanest. If money is a barrier, buy a contractor grade gas unit and keep a supply of fuel on hand in a safe place. Keep the generator in a dry location and test run it every month or so except in real cold weather, then do it more often to keep your starter battery charged. If can keep the genset in a warm location that’s even better.
Stockpiling water in really cold climates is a problem. Water during a MN winter frequently becomes ice. Not a good thing if you’ve no power.
Here’s a “quick and dirty” article from somebody who’s not trying to sell you something:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to/a3603/how-to-buy-a-backup-generator/
And one more:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/generators/buying-guide.htm
These guy want to sell you stuff but look it over anyway:
Good luck in your search.
G.[/QUOTE]
Doing “right” cost a fair bit of money. If all the OP wants is to power the well pump, a decent generator can be had to do that for a few hundred dollars. Installing a plug the cutoff switch is simple and only cost a few dollars for the parts and wire, $50±. As more money comes in install a transfer switch.
This is very simple stuff to do.
+100000 on the “you want a generator” train.
Fun story.
The barn I used to manage runs on well water. One fine June day, a tornado blew through. In suburban Philadelphia. Tornadoes don’t happen there very often. Power was out for a few days and it was in the high 90s. Luckily a creek ran through the back of the property. I spent HOURS dipping buckets out of the creek into tubs in the back of my Ford Ranger. The barn kids and I ended up referring to that day as The Day That Must Not Be Named.
Thankfully a boarder knew someone who let us borrow his generator the next few days. Moral of the story is get a generator!
[QUOTE=Doctracy;8341055]
Ugh. Woke up to a power outage. I am switching to propane ASAP. Hate not having coffee![/QUOTE]
Many food issues are easily solved with a gas stove and a handheld lighter if your stove has electric flame lighting. On-stove percolator plus bottled water and you can have coffee 
[QUOTE=PeteyPie;8342004]
Or you could do the homesteader system which I saw growing up: a claw footed cast-iron bathtub with a wood fire underneath. Works in all disasters and you could even have a warm bath![/QUOTE]
How would this get her water?
Yes, it would keep any water she has from freezing. I am just not sure how it would get her water, unless there is snow to melt.
It depends on a lot of factors (how many horses/automatic waterers/likelihood of long power outages in freezing weather). But you can live on a well without a generator. We have for 30 years in Va and Pa. Just our own horses (max 6) and no automatic waterers. A decision I made because of the electricity issue – lots of thunderstorms here and power can go out while I am at work – and if I have to keep troughs too there isn’t much point.
Here is what I do in our current place, where we have been for almost 20 years. In summer not such a big deal as we have large tanks in pastures. However if a hurricane or other big event is forecast that may result in long power outage (longest for us was 7 days after Hurricane Isabel,otherwise never more than 24 hours, never more than 12 in winter), I fill extra tanks in pasture and the key is one large tank in the wash stall. It is easy to dip buckets for the stalls. In winter we simply put a wood cover on the tank and I have never had it freeze solid – a skim on top – but still dip-able.
I also fill the tubs and buckets for the bathrooms for flushing toilets and the dogs.
We do have a small portable generator if needed. However I hate the noise so only use sparingly.
[QUOTE=Simkie;8342184]
I really wouldn’t mind keeping a couple 55 gallon drums filled for backup somewhere, but don’t want to heat them through the winter. The basement is an option (it’s not finished) but there’s the question of how to get the water out to the horses and also what to do with 110 gallons of water when it’s time to swap it out. [/QUOTE]
The cheapest portable water pump with a hose attached & run outside will drain those tanks in ten minutes. If you want to send the water farther away, a gas powered water pump will do that even better. I’ve seen them pull water from a stream up a steady incline 1000’ to a cabin. You can strap them to an ATV, buy a lotta hose/water line of your choice, and move a lot of water fast.
I haven’t read all of the replies and I don’t know much about wells, but I think most people have generators as a backup.
However, I boarded at a barn that had the well pump/electrical system (not sure which or if it was possibly both) completely taken out by an oak branch that came down during a storm. Whatever it was that got squished wasn’t going to be helped by a generator, so they had to have a water truck deliver water for 80 or so horses (most with fairly small troughs) for a few days until they got it fixed.
[QUOTE=Frog Pond;8343456]
The cheapest portable water pump with a hose attached & run outside will drain those tanks in ten minutes. If you want to send the water farther away, a gas powered water pump will do that even better. I’ve seen them pull water from a stream up a steady incline 1000’ to a cabin. You can strap them to an ATV, buy a lotta hose/water line of your choice, and move a lot of water fast.[/QUOTE]
Oh hey, look at that–that’s a COOL idea! Thanks!
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;8341774]
Buy the biggest generator that you can afford.[/QUOTE]
This is what my husband did. We have a natural gas generator that comes on automatically within about a minute of the power going off. It is big enough to probably power two houses, with everything running. As he says: “Go big, or go home.” :
For those in favor of biggest generator you can afford, did you ever regret? We keep going back and forth, between getting a small one, or getting a full house one. I mean, the full house generators aren’t exactly cheap, and you may only use it once a year. Seems extravagant?
[QUOTE=Gloria;8346622]
For those in favor of biggest generator you can afford, did you ever regret? We keep going back and forth, between getting a small one, or getting a full house one. I mean, the full house generators aren’t exactly cheap, and you may only use it once a year. Seems extravagant?[/QUOTE]
Gloria, I had the smaller portable gasoline generator for yrs. Even though I ran it at least once/month (and often every 2 wks) I still had problems with it. 
After Hurricane Sandy devastated NJ and the people with generators couldn’t get gasoline (gas stations devastated as well), I decided that with the grid in country not being terribly reliable I didn’t want the same thing to happen to me (not being able to get gas for the generator). That’s when I decided to go for the whole house generator to cover the house and the barn.
I turn 70 in a couple of weeks and honestly don’t want to have to out, start the generator and HOPE that I have enough gas to keep it going if we do have a serious power outage. After watching the people in NJ after Sandy hit, I made the decision to go with the whole house generator. I’m totally on electricity so I also bought a 500 gallon propane tank and had it buried so it wouldn’t be an eyesore.
I did have 5 different companies come and give me price estimates and decided to go with the one company that ONLY did whole house generators rather than the companies that did HVAC as well as generators.
I figured if I never needed anything beyond the gallon of propane used/month the propane in the tank would last 12 yrs. Also, if we did have a big power outage like we had during the '91 ice storm (some people didn’t get power for 2 wks)I’d have enough to last me about a week and hopefully the roads would be open that they could deliver more.
Have I regretted it? Not on your life! Yes, it was a fairly big outlay of cash. With buying and burying the propane tank and filling it plus the buying and installing the generator, it ran $12K. So far we’ve already had a 10 hour power outage and several shorter ones (5 minutes to 3 hours). I was fine. Had it gone on longer I think I’d have several families moving in. 
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Well I only have 2-3 horses but my farm was built before electricity so when the power goes out it is inconvenient, but the wood stove keeps things from freezing, water comes from the pond (horses go to the pond, I don’t haul) we have a privy but can also take buckets from the pond to flush the indoor toilets.
If i boarded 10 horses it would be a different story, but I don’t.
I had a bigger problem this summer because the pond dried up and had we had a power outage, I would have needed water.
But I don’t have a generator because my house functions OK without power.
