Western Dressage vs Cowboy Dressage, a few years in

[Alterration]

Totally. As a jumper convert I still prefer a shorter stirrup. Maybe eventually I will want something different but for now, I prefer to be able to get out of the tack. It’s how I balance.

[Knights_Mom]

@Alterration

I don’t want to start any controversies (of course, I’m probably going to) but it’s been interesting to watch how the two disciplines have evolved.

Having watched a few sample tests lately of each type, it seems like Western Dressage is going for “dressage with a western style horse” - meaning they are requiring contact on the curb, a more forward trot, etc. and Cowboy Dressage is going for “patterns with a cowboy oriented horse”.

I’m seeing a lot more of the Californio/Buckaroo style guys (just watched a pattern with Jeff Sanders) doing the CD. CD tests seem to be oriented to be handier, and WD tests seem to be more “classical dressage under western tack”.

Am I missing something big? I know the whole Eitan “thing” but I find myself disliking the idea of riding two handed with contact in a curb, and losing the jog bothers me. Yes, a western horse should be able to trot out, but a jog is still not a gait that requires posting.

My horse is in a bosal at the moment, but our eventual goal is to be able to be straight up in the bridle, whether that is a spade or a “Spanish style” curb. Just still trying to find our fit in life. He’s not ever going to be as quick as the WE superstars but we work at that as well.

I think you’re exactly right. From what I’ve seen the WDAA is doing exactly dressage with western tack.

[Knights_Mom]

@endlessclimb

@Alterration

I find myself disliking the idea of riding two handed with contact in a curb, and losing the jog bothers me. Yes, a western horse should be able to trot out, but a jog is still not a gait that requires posting.

Agree with this whole heartedly. I was actually going to guide an acquaintance towards WD, until I was looking for youtube videos and saw examples of contact (not just a little contact, either - it was full blown, shanks back, curb chain on chin, contact) with the curb, and then the addition of a mouth-shutter noseband. So instead, I convinced her to switch to dressage-dressage, and she’s having a blast.

This type of contact would be incorrect in western dressage. It is extreme. Contact is to be light.

[Knights_Mom]

@Rackonteur

Those two photos do not show “western” riding, nor do they show dressage. They’re not western, because the riders are using two hands with curb bits. They’re not dressage, either, because they’re using a curb bit alone, without a bridoon. And the buckskin is wearing boots, which AFAIK aren’t allowed in any dressage test.

Polos and 2 hands are permitted in WDAA. What you can’t do is switch from 1 hand to 2 or visa versa in the same test.

[Knights_Mom]

@Willesdon

As a complete outsider, with no skin in the game, to me some odd things stick out. Rising trot in a western saddle? Two hands on a western curb bit? An obstacle course rather than purely movement?

In a western discipline, I would be really impressed to see FEI dressage movements performed in a relaxed, one-handed western style. Canter pirouette, for example, I suspect would be a thing of beauty. Either discipline looks like fun to do.

Rising trot is permitted at certain lower levels to save the horses back. The WDAA is exceedingly horse welfare oriented.

[Knights_Mom]

@Willesdon

As a complete outsider, with no skin in the game, to me some odd things stick out. Rising trot in a western saddle? Two hands on a western curb bit? An obstacle course rather than purely movement?

In a western discipline, I would be really impressed to see FEI dressage movements performed in a relaxed, one-handed western style. Canter pirouette, for example, I suspect would be a thing of beauty. Either discipline looks like fun to do.

The WDAA World Show is in YouTube and I watched Level 5 tests. Some were gorgeous.

@Djones

@Alterration

So, despite the fact that they technically allow the two rein, you definitely would be using it improperly as a signal bit if you maintained any sort of contact on it.

Yeah, how does one “maintain light contact” when riding in a bit with as much as 3 1/2" port??? Yikes

It’s not hard, just an acquired skill set. I used to show AQHA horsemanship back in the day and would maintain light contact in a spade bit.

Do not think that riding with a curb or spade means a straight rein from mouth to hand. The contact can be lighter, the curb chain adjusted. Here is a buckaroo style WDAA Level 4 ride scoring 80 and it looks like the showpen is the Lazy E Arena in Guthrie OK which makes it most probably the World Show. 2 handed on a curb. Note disaster does not occur.

Don’t dressage riders use 2 hands on a curb with a double?

Joanne Williams, Ida Norris, Gail Carmona are all very dressagey people with enormous influence in this discipline.

How do I know? My best friend rides it and I learned it.

WDAA Basic Level, test 4 - 80.800%

[Alterration]

That’s a much nicer test than those that I’ve seen. However, in a spade that would muddy the signal. A regular curb would be ok.

Again - not taking away from the test. That was very nicely ridden!!

[Knights_Mom]

@Alterration

That’s a much nicer test than those that I’ve seen. However, in a spade that would muddy the signal. A regular curb would be ok.

Again - not taking away from the test. That was very nicely ridden!!

This is the riding I’ve seen from that show. Gentle, soft. I used to show in a spade. I didn’t move my hand. I thought it. That’s how light you have to be.

[Djones]

ok, so maybe I overreacted.

This riding would qualify as ‘light contact’ with a spade bit.

7 Clinics with Buck Brannaman Best Advice Video 7 Streaming Trailer

more “consistent light contact” in a two rein setup

Buck Brannaman Clinic, Two-Rein Ride

and some good canter work with consistent light contact in a curb, two handed

Western dressage quarter and half pirouettes-Episode 18: The Trail to the World...

[Alterration]

Those don’t appear to be the kind of consistent “light” contact that I see in the WD. If you see, the reins “flop” and swing. There’s a pretty consistent release. I’m not saying they are floppy like you see in the western pleasure ring - that would be useless in any bit, but the whole idea behind even the romel buttons is that they provide weight to the rein for quicker release.

In the WD example, though I wouldn’t classify that as heavy contact, the reins never go slack.

Maybe the issue is the definition of light?

[Djones]

I would imagine they would reward greater lightness when and where it presents itself? Maybe?

[Alterration]

What I’ve seen elsewhere on the web in the WD Facebook groups is that they require consistent contact with the bit and most of the judges are “regular” dressage judges so they would be used to more consistent contact.

Consistent contact, whether light medium or heavy, is antithetical to the use of a signal bit. The idea with a signal bit (or the use of a bit as signal, to be pedantic) is that when you touch it, the horse responds, and then does as asked. You release immediately to let them know they are doing the right thing.

If you were to continue to signal and not ever release you wouldn’t be appropriately riding in the two rein (and not just that, your horse might decide to eject you stage left if you’ve been training them in this manner). Even the bosal button is there to provide counterweight so that when you’ve picked up on it and the horse responds, the weight drops to make that release faster than the human hand can do alone. That’s why a cheap bosal or an unshaped bosal is “wrong” - it won’t release correctly or will provide too much noise on the face.

I think Brannaman’s rides would fit very nicely with CD. Depending on the judge (if BB was not BB) I think he might be penalized in WD for the inconsistent contact. Again, based on what I’ve seen. If anyone judges WD, I’d love to be wrong!

[sorrelfilly721]

That first video looks more like a trail class to me than dressage.

[Alterration]

It’s one “phase” of the CD tests. They have a few. Kind of like 3 day eventing, but without terror.

[sorrelfilly721]

[Maude]

Real cowboys post😊

[propspony]

I’m just going to point out that you’re not required to show western dressage in a curb. You can go all the way to level 5, the current highest level in a snaffle…

[Alterration]

Oh yes - that’s absolutely true - and I probably should have acknowledged that. I did like that aspect of WD.

[FjordBCRF]

@Djones

For some, WD is turning into the place to train and show competitively the really nice, well-trained dressage horses who lack the insanely fancy gaits needed to score well in normal dressage.

@Knights_Mom

Polos and 2 hands are permitted in WDAA. What you can’t do is switch from 1 hand to 2 or visa versa in the same test.

My BO is also a trainer and a judge and just dropped the western dressage bug in my ear over the weekend for this reason from @Djones above…as well as it is also allowed to use voice commands. My fjord is so responsive to voice commands also being a driving horse, that it killed me in our first schooling show to not be able to talk to him. I didnt realize it wasn’t allowed and got a warning on my first test LOL.

Working Equitation is really where my interest is, but we can do that in any tack. I’ve been thinking about getting a new dressage saddle and am glad I have held off as I might be looking for new western gear.

What is a typical western saddle used for western dressage? I’ve been looking online but it’s not completely spelled out.

[Djones]

@FjordBCRF

What is a typical western saddle used for western dressage? I’ve been looking online but it’s not completely spelled out.

It is currently a bit up in the air, believe it or not. To be safe, get something with a horn and skirts, though rounded is fine, and make sure it has normal western rigging. There is some measure of debate about pushing back on the likes of the western saddles made by DP Saddlery, which have billets and no skirts.