Western New York Equine Lawyer?

[Angela_Freda]

@ASB_Stars

The person in question doesn’t have that skill set, and here we are.

Understood, but how many people actually would?

It’s all very sad.

[ASB_Stars]

@Angela_Freda

It’s all very sad.

My concern is for the horses- first and foremost.

It disgusts me that anyone was able to get away with this. And, the fact that a rescue would allegedly support this, and plan it, turns my stomach.

[Jealoushe]

Is there a chance they (Rescue) were genuinely concerned about the horses, if there was financial issues?

[ASB_Stars]

It is my opinion that they were not. I have not heard anything about the local animal welfare officials ever citing the owner. It is my understanding that they had “adopted” horses to this individual in the past, and allegedly touted their wonderful care of the adoptees. I believe that the “rescue” had real knowledge of exactly what animals were in her possession. In my opinion, she had some very well bred stock.

[Angela_Freda]

I wish it surprised me.
I knew it happened via having seen bad rescue actors online, but then I saw it first hand in my own community.

[Angela_Freda]

@Jealoushe

Is there a chance they (Rescue) were genuinely concerned about the horses, if there was financial issues?

Concern about what exactly?
That she could afford their care- were they well fed? Trimmed? Getting proper vet care?

We’re there claims that the animals were being neglected? What is the legal definition of neglect in that jurisdiction? Cause the last time I read up on it, it’s pretty simple and basic what neglect is…

Throwing the horses in the fire that is this and many other sales, and all the risks involved in situations like a sale, is better how… ?

[Jealoushe]

Concerned about their care.

I’m not talking about what’s right wrong or better, I was asking the OP if she felt the rescue was concerned about the horses, and she answered.

[OverandOnward]

@Angela_Freda

You’re kidding, right?
Freeville is literally a one light town.
Sophisticated? Hardly.

I live in a much bigger, more developed and populated area, and I know of at least three cases of authorities and rescues scamming people out of their horses.

It’s not as odd or difficult as it seems some of you think it is.

Why the hostile attacking tone ???

Having said I’m not in the relevant state of course I don’t know all this. I’m just remarking on a very interesting thread. Your response is rude, attacking and totally uncalled for.

Why are so many posters in this thread just attacking each other like mean kids on a toxic playground? What does that have to do with the topic?

If one poster is trolling the others, why are you feeding the troll? Why not be the adult and just ignore it? Why spread it to every other poster in the thread?

This is a public social media forum and I and anyone else may post comments and ask questions. That is not an invitation for rudeness and attack.

If this can be discussed like adults I’m interested in the conversation. But for some reason most of the adults seem to have left the room. I don’t know why, but whatever.

@FoxyFizz I am so sorry your thread is being dragged down like this. This is not what COTH is about, of course you know that or you wouldn’t have posted here. All the best with what you are trying to do.

[OverandOnward]

COTH gives you the option to “ignore” an individual user so that you see that they posted, but the content of their message is not displayed.

How to use the “Ignore” function on this board.

• Upper right frame, click on your user icon**
• Click on your username**
• Select “Preferences”**
• Left side options select Users**
• Options to “Ignore” and “Mute”**
• Click Add and input the username (copy/paste and also it suggests)**
• And you can select for how long, up to Forever**

A nice option in certain circumstances.

[Angela_Freda]

@OverandOnward

Why the hostile attacking tone ???

Tone is yours

Speaking of rude

@OverandOnward

If this can be discussed like adults I’m interested in the conversation. But for some reason most of the adults seem to have left the room. I don’t know why, but whatever.

[Angela_Freda]

@OverandOnward

Your response is rude, attacking and totally uncalled for.

So report it.
I’m guessing mods would disagree.

I quoted your statements that seemed to assume alot about this region you now say you aren’t familiar with.

@OverandOnward

It seems that whoever orchestrated taking the horses was fairly sophisticated as to the legal situation that would make it difficult to do anything about it. However illegal or legal it was.

And, whoever, however, someone worked out a very detailed plan for taking the horses and moving them through an elaborate pipeline to wherever they ended up. They knew how to get the horses through each step without legal pushback that would have halted progress to the destination.

Clearly there was a destination, because they moved so promptly through each step to the next step.

It’s as if they had to run a complex maze – and they did it, quickly and correctly, on the first run.

That’s interesting on it’s own, to me.

You make many claims, evidenced by the use of a period rather than a question mark, about the process and procedures that are not accurate, even in the general sense in which you applied them.

“So much paperwork had to be ready for that to happen. Exactly the right paperwork to get past each step.” for example.
What paperwork are you suggesting is so hard to get in order for this to happen?

[Jealoushe]

@OverandOnward

A nice option in certain circumstances.

yes, indeed a good day to engage this feature.

[Scribbler]

@ASB_Stars

It is my opinion that they were not. I have not heard anything about the local animal welfare officials ever citing the owner. It is my understanding that they had “adopted” horses to this individual in the past, and allegedly touted their wonderful care of the adoptees. I believe that the “rescue” had real knowledge of exactly what animals were in her possession. In my opinion, she had some very well bred stock.

Interesting. Does this rescue actually transfer ownership, or are they the kind of place that retains ownership and csn be a bit intrusive?

[OverandOnward]

@FoxyFizz

Yes, there was a landlord/tenant relationship between the prior (foreclosed) owner and the Tenant. It should have transferred to New Owner and then properly terminated with a 90 Day Notice. That is the crux of the issue as to the eviction and whether it was properly conducted. New Owner did not recognize prior landlord/tenant relationship and indicated Tenant was actually a squatter which was an issue of fact that should have been decided at the town court level.

Got it. Thanks.

For those of us not in a position to be personally involved, this case serves as a cautionary tale, indeed. As a tenant or a landlord.

@Scribbler

But if the property is foreclosed and possessed by the bank, the original owner is out of the picture where the new buyer steps in. I doubt the tenant had a rental contract with the bank. At that point whether they were still paying rent to the former owner doesn’t matter because that’s not the property owner.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like tenant was able to survive in the limbo of being on a foreclosed property but caught out when the resale process started to move forward fast after the sale.

With the caveat that I’m not in the state and don’t know those laws, and as said am not an attorney, but do have some experience in property & landlord …

When the lender (bank or whatever it calls itself) takes possession of the property, and a valid tenant contract is in place, in my state the lender does become a landlord. And yes banks and financial institutions hate that, but the tenant has substantial rights in a foreclosure.

Where I am most of them farm it out to a property management company until they sell it at auction or the tenant contract runs out. In this state there are a wide range of lending entities from financial institutions to private lenders and who knows what else, and they vary as to what each one does from there. But they are all under the same law. In my state.

That tenant contract is a powerful thing so long as it is valid. In my state it has to be honored until it expires or the tenants agree to cancel it (for incentives). And there are some arrangements where a tenant can claim an implied contract and have it upheld, just because they are there and have been paying the rent, with or without current contract paperwork.

Some subsequent owners will offer “cash for keys” and try to buy the tenants out of it, offer moving services, etc. But it is up to the tenants how they respond.

If the tenants are behind in their rent then an eviction process may be possible, but that can become complicated as well, depending on what the tenant does about it.

Here, if the property is headed for auction, interested buyers will usually attempt to speak with the tenants and find out their state of mind. (Even if the sellers has asked that the tenants not be contacted.) If it becomes apparent that the tenants will not be cooperative with a next new owner who wants to make changes to the contract (such as agreement to cancel it and move out), that can hurt the buying interest considerably, which is not good for the bank (or other lender-owner). The presence of tenants and a contract that will pass to the new owner can definitely affect the attitude of prospective buyers at a foreclosure auction.

However it seems that in this case the clock was running, and probably steps were missed, and the tenant got caught in a legal situation that has now put them at a disadvantage. That’s what makes this such an example of how things can go so very wrong.

[ASB_Stars]

@Scribbler

Interesting. Does this rescue actually transfer ownership, or are they the kind of place that retains ownership and csn be a bit intrusive?

Allegedly, they sell horses as well as adopting them out.

[OverandOnward]

@ASB_Stars

Allegedly, they sell horses as well as adopting them out.

If they are a 501( c)3 it would be interesting to review their filings and see their certificate of formation and any other charter or other documents that state what their charitable mission includes. I’m not an expert on non-profits and 501( c)3’s by any means, but if they are straying from their stated mission – well there probably isn’t much that can be done about it that would be effective. But maybe publicize it and alert Guidestar and other charitable review organizations.

[Angela_Freda]

And obviously allow breeding?

@OverandOnward

If they are a 501( c)3 it would be interesting to review their filings and see their certificate of formation and any other charter or other documents that state what their charitable mission includes. I’m not an expert on non-profits and 501( c)3’s by any means, but if they are straying from their stated mission – well there probably isn’t much that can be done about it that would be effective. But maybe publicize it and alert Guidestar and other charitable review organizations

Nothing was done about AC4H, CBER and others… The agencies really don’t care, even if the issues are flagrant. Imo

[FoxyFizz]

Thank you

[ASB_Stars]

@OverandOnward

If they are a 501( c)3 it would be interesting to review their filings and see their certificate of formation and any other charter or other documents that state what their charitable mission includes. I’m not an expert on non-profits and 501( c)3’s by any means, but if they are straying from their stated mission – well there probably isn’t much that can be done about it that would be effective. But maybe publicize it and alert Guidestar and other charitable review organizations.

I found their filings to be entertaining. In situations like the one at hand, they allegedly go to their faithful, and beg for funds. They fill that hat, and buy what they can. I find it very hard to be critical of any rescue, because there are so many horses in need. This situation is different.

[OverandOnward]

@ASB_Stars

They fill that hat, and buy what they can.

You mean they buy horses? Or is this feed, supplies, etc.?

Do they have a facility where they house horses? Some rescues today do not have facilities, they foster out all of the horses. Facilities can be troublesome on a lot of levels and very expensive.

I’m sure you already know all of this – Rescues are very individual, of course. But many will not buy horses except in very rare circumstances. Horses are turned over to them voluntarily, or placed with them after being seized by law enforcement. There are some that will buy at auction for the purpose of rescue. But rescue auction bidders/buyers are well known to the auction community and some in that community take advantage of them to get more rescue money in their own pockets.

Nothing wrong with adopting out or even selling the horses to good homes, if the purpose is the best welfare of the horse. Horses who are ready to move on do have to go out so that more in need can come in, if that is the mission of the rescue.

So yeah, I think I get your point that this ‘rescue’ is buying & selling and probably for profit, not to ‘rescue’ horses that in some cases may not need rescue.