Definitely an unfortunate situation. Hopefully the horse owner can find an attorney who can determine if the sale was not legal, and what options the horse owner might have if that’s the case. Or at least clarify what happened, if it was all legal.
Yes, what you say about the new property owner not being able to care for the 40 horses makes a lot of sense. I assume the new owner wanted the land, there is livestock on the land the new owner doesn’t want and cannot care for (most of us couldn’t) and is also a significant expense to keep in humane condition.
Is it possible that the horses were in somewhat sketchy condition originally thanks to recent breeding and inconsistent care, then poorly cared for by the person whom they were being “stored” by for $20 a day, thus resulting in them becoming what we saw in the worst photos? (And who knows what happened to some of the horses that “disappeared,” maybe some passed away, and maybe a few more were “skimmed” off by someone, in the hopes no one would miss them.)
It just sounds like a clusterfuck of irresponsible breeding and management, followed by another clusterfuck of legally taking care of things in an appropriate fashion. Unlike repossessing a car or a foreclosure, these types of asset seizures don’t happen every day, and if there is one thing law and government doesn’t handle well, it’s novel situations.
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Posters have said is the sole source of all our information here.
Further to various comments.
I would guess the Horse Dude Gentleman is someone contracted by the local.sheriff or bailiff to deal with animal control. Many smaller rural places don’t have actual SPCA facilities but do have ongoing issues with stray or problem livestock. One solution is to have a local person with flexible time, a stock truck, and acreage to go pick up stray animals and deal with the outcome. The person would work on call on contract with local LE.
I think the legal scenario here is more like stray livestock. You own a piece of property, someone else lets their livestock roam on it and won’t move them in a timely manner. You get what functions as animal control to act.
One of the things about law is that a law does not need to be fair, kind, or ethically correct. It just needs to be the law in this situation.
The Horse Dude Gentleman was obviously contracted by the sheriff or bailiff or other local LE, who were following a court order to clear the property for the new property owner. Accusing the bailiffs contract employee of theft is just one of those empty gestures people in those situations make.
Anyhow no one has yet found the actual state laws or the local bylaws that govern this case. Animal control is municipal, I think meaning prpcedures would differ between towns.
Edited to add, theres a post above citing the horse owners FB page asking “what qualifications” Horse Dude Gentleman had to be hired by a (redacted) legal agency to remove the horses. So horse owner tells us Horse Dude was working for the bailiff or sheriff or whoever.
That’s all the qualifications he needs. I would guess he’s their local on call short term contract animal control person who picks up stray cows and etc.
I expect there is law somewhere, evrn at the municipal level, about abandoned livestock and I expect he does this often enough to have a process. You pick up a random cow, you try to find the owner, you charge the owner a fee for releasing the cow, if owner won’t or can’t pay the fee and collect the animal, the animal is considered abandoned after xx days and can be sold.
Also works this way at tow yards for cars and boats and trailers. People do lose vehicles that way.
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Impounded vehicles incur similar high day fees and require less room and no feed, water or labor to store. $20 per day per head seems standard when viewed from that angle.
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Come to think of it, I’ve also heard of people who have had challenges getting back cars. Like, they park in a legal area for parking, law alleges it is a tow-away zone. Car is gone when driver comes back after a few hours. Can’t find car in shady storage lot.
All the more reason to avoid these situations from taking place with horses.
I’m much more familiar with people thinking they’ve parked legally when in fact they have not. Much like how this horse owner thought she could leave her horses at someone else’s property. In both cases, the law determined those folks thought incorrectly.
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Well, New York City can have some interesting parking laws! But one reason why it’s usually better to just park in a lot, versus figuring out street parking rules!
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I can’t even imagine how it must be in NYC! Even in Pensacola it’s a bit complicated. Different areas having different rules on different times and days.
I did object to a particular lot that had a sinkhole in it. Like why is this open?
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I’m imagining the post from the other side.
OGM I’m at my wits end. We finally managed to find a farm in our area, a bit rundown but we can fix it up to something nice. The problem is it’s a foreclosure that started before COVID and sale was postponed until after. The former owners have been sitting there for 3 years making no payments and don’t seem inclined to shift now. What do I do?
Update. The previous owners have moved out of the house but it turns out they are running some kind of backyard breeding operation and they have left 20 to 30 head of horses including new foals behind. I assume they are visiting to care for them but not sure.
Update: We got a formal eviction notice, but the girlfriend or partner of foreclosed owner found a lawyer to argue that she is legally a tenant who can’t be evicted without lengthy process. Our lawyer argued she has no tenant status at this point and is a squatter. Court ordered her to pay a $4500 fee into escrow to stay the eviction order and remain until September while the court decides her status.
Uodate: the deadline for paying the $4500 fee has come and gone without girlfriend/partner of former owner responding. The eviction order is now back in force. We estimate there are about 35 head of horses on the property getting minimal care. Some are thin, but it’s not a genuine welfare emergency yet, but will be come winter. But the big problem is we need to move in! We have horses of our own, we need to start fixing fence and tending to pastures. We’ve sold our previous place and we need to move. But this woman is making no effort to clear out her horses. Indeed, I wonder if she has the resources to do so.
What would our advice be from this side of the picture? It would be get a court order, get a bailiff, get animal control, and have those horses moved offsite yesterday.
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It actually just happened recently with a COTH member wrt her DHs truck, trailer and boat.
That situation was wrong too.
What makes them a backyard breeder, and what is the alternative to the term? In other words, if it’s not a BYB, what is it called?
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It might have been “wrong” but it was legal. LE had vehicle and boat towed after an accident, tow company charges a daily storage fee and could only release to legal owner but legal owner was incapacitated in hospital. Eventually vehicle was released to owner’s spouse. While extremely upsetting and the whole situation was heartbreaking for our poster, it was well within the structure of the law.
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She wasn’t evicted in May, contrary to what Kr alleges. The actual “eviction” (summary proceeding) was not before the Judge of the Town of Dryden Court until June or July. Subsequent to that date, there was an appeal to the Tompkins Supreme Court in August. The actual “eviction” did not occur until 8/26 or thereabouts. Tenant was caring for the horses throughout that time frame but apparently is a traveling nurse who travels for work.
The person that removed the horses did so on or about 8/26 or 27 and sent text messages to the Tenant. She was not provided the location.
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A BYB is obviously a subjective term. There could be different situations. But in this case, we have breeding going on without apparent sales, we have a herd that exceeds the economic sustainability of the owner, and we don’t see evidence of a thought out breeding program that finds buyers. I follow some small breeders online who appear very professional. They keep their herds manageable size and they sell their weanlings or yearlings. The horses all get optimum care.
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OK. So how do us observers figure out which poster here is most accurate with the facts and details?
It does not appear to be disputed that the horse owner had an eviction notice, appealed, was given a deadline to pay a fee to the court in order to stay that eviction while appeal was herd, and failed to pay it, after which the eviction order went into effect.
Thing is you can’t just stay on a farm tats been foreclosed and sold out from under you. That’s just not how this works. The bank will be lax but the new owner wants you gone ASAP and with good reason.
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That is the question - did they get a court order and have the horses moved legally, or did they take matters into their own hands and relocate them without due process?
It sucks to buy a property with tenants who aren’t paying, but that doesn’t mean you can do what you want with their stuff. In MA, she would be considered a tenant, and after going through the eviction process, if she left stuff behind the landlord has to pay to store the stuff for 6 months.
I am not sure what the law is for livestock. For pets, it is a felony to abandon them when you move, so law enforcement and AC are involved.
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I’ve posted the information to search at the Tompkins County Clerk’s website.
The procedural rules for both foreclosure and eviction are very specific and rigid in NY and always benefit either the homeowner in foreclosure and the Tenant in an eviction proceeding. I know there was someone posting earlier on the thread that she worked in the Eviction part in NYC, she can confirm as to evictions.
Most foreclosures in NYS ordinarily take up to 6-8 years if the homeowner challenges the foreclosure (most homeowners attempt to work out a resolution with the bank) and there are required pre-trial conferences that take time to schedule. 6-8 is the general information I give bank clients. If it is not defended, it usually will take anywhere from 2-4 years (without any moratoriums for Covid).
Evictions- I counsel my clients that it is often easier and faster to offer the Tenant money to leave. It is more effective. Otherwise, a nonpayment eviction (at the rate we are going in NYS) can take years due to the requirements under ERAP. A Holdover proceeding - depends on the tenant and the court - right now the actions I have brought for clients is roughly 120 - 180 days to get a tenant out if they do not apply for ERAP (exponentially longer if they do).
There was an issue of fact as it relates to the eviction, thus the pending appeal.
If you would like to read the Eviction documents- it’s public record: Case No.: 2022-0162
go to: https://countyfusion3.kofiletech.us/countyweb/loginDisplay.action?town=&countyname=Tompkins
The court documents are all there and then you will see that the eviction did NOT occur in May.
As for the foreclosure, it is Case No.: EF2019-0413
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There have been sales. In fact in September 2022, Kr was in active negotiations with the Tenant to trade a gelding for a mare. In fact, Tenant has sold a number of horses over the years, so it’s not simply that she was breeding indiscriminately. She had 19 broodmares on her farm when they were taken. Of those 6 mares had babies at their sides (if she was truly irresponsible - all 19 would have had babies and been rebred for next year). Kr was made aware of that fact prior to the sale as she demanded all of that information from the Tenant. Only 4 mares w/babies went to the sale - where are the remaining 2 babies?
We know 1 died in transport from wherever they had been held to the sale/auction; 1 is unaccounted for.
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And that to me is the most important part of the entire story. None of the court documents indicate that Tenant received due process as to her property/horses. There was not enough time to proceed with a stableman’s lien process - and in fact, would have required a court proceeding to get the court order.
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A stablemen’s lien would not be required because there is no boarding arrangement.
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