[QUOTE=huntseat3;8179477]
I cannot find 5 1/2" mouthpieces, is the problem.[/QUOTE]
Several years ago, I spent hours over the course of a week or so scouring the internet for a short-shanked western curb with a 5 1/2 inch mouthpiece. They are almost impossible to find in anything but Mylers, although Reinsman (I think) makes an Argentine snaffle and a Tom Thumb with a 5 1/2" mouthpiece.
But, you can find Myler bits in 5 1/2" online at a number of places. For example:
You can also contact Myler directly. I think they are pretty agreeable about customizing bits.
[QUOTE=Showbizz;8179503]
Not my experience. Most stock horses show in custom Maheu bits with Harris reins, and most arabians show in custom Principe bits with $800 romels.[/QUOTE]
Yup. Even cheaping out on the Arab show bits still puts you at around 80 bucks. Cheaping out on the romels is still well over 100 bucks. But Principe with the 800 romels is pretty standard.
Changing bits is expensive and confusing to both horse and rider and really doesn’t solve much. It is much better to work on your seat (it should be an independent one) and leg aids and your hands than to keep changing bits.
I don’t know much about WP but I think most disciplines have certain bits that are legal for showing in that discipline and these bits can be found on the organization’s website. For example, the USDF lists bits that are legal for showing in dressage at different levels.
A good general rule to follow is to use the mildest bit that your horse will go well in. “Correction” bits and other bits are not correct for any usage. A horse should never be corrected with a bit; if the horse is not carrying himself properly and comfortably then the rider should work on improving her hands and seat. When these are correct, and the horse is forward and through (having his weight and balance on his hindquarters and carrying himself from his hindquarters and not lugging on his forehand), then his head will be in a naturally good, comfortable position for him. Trying to get the horse in a certain “headset” or “frame” is detrimental to good training, regardless of what discipline you are riding.
A balanced, centered seat in a saddle that fits the horse correctly, and the rider, will result in a horse that carries himself properly and comfortably and naturally.
If you are showing western at lower levels, I think you use a snaffle of some type, with two hands on the reins; for more advanced horses I believe some sort of curb, with one hand on the reins. I don’t understand the terminology used by some in this thread – a “finished” horse – a properly trained horse is never “finished” in the sense of not needing any more schooling.
[QUOTE=RPM;8179922]
If you are showing western at lower levels, I think you use a snaffle of some type, with two hands on the reins; for more advanced horses I believe some sort of curb, with one hand on the reins. I don’t understand the terminology used by some in this thread – a “finished” horse – a properly trained horse is never “finished” in the sense of not needing any more schooling.[/QUOTE]
In western disciplines, the mandatory switch from snaffle to curb is determined by the horse’s age. Horses below a certain age may be shown in a snaffle bit. Above that age, a curb is required.
The term “finished” doesn’t mean that the horse never needs any more schooling, it simply means that the horse has achieved a certain level of training. Western disciplines, just like the English disciplines, have their own unique terms and vocabulary. “Finished” is one of those terms.
[QUOTE=RPM;8179922]
Changing bits is expensive and confusing to both horse and rider and really doesn’t solve much. It is much better to work on your seat (it should be an independent one) and leg aids and your hands than to keep changing bits.
I don’t know much about WP but I think most disciplines have certain bits that are legal for showing in that discipline and these bits can be found on the organization’s website. For example, the USDF lists bits that are legal for showing in dressage at different levels.
A good general rule to follow is to use the mildest bit that your horse will go well in. “Correction” bits and other bits are not correct for any usage. A horse should never be corrected with a bit; if the horse is not carrying himself properly and comfortably then the rider should work on improving her hands and seat. When these are correct, and the horse is forward and through (having his weight and balance on his hindquarters and carrying himself from his hindquarters and not lugging on his forehand), then his head will be in a naturally good, comfortable position for him. Trying to get the horse in a certain “headset” or “frame” is detrimental to good training, regardless of what discipline you are riding.
A balanced, centered seat in a saddle that fits the horse correctly, and the rider, will result in a horse that carries himself properly and comfortably and naturally.
If you are showing western at lower levels, I think you use a snaffle of some type, with two hands on the reins; for more advanced horses I believe some sort of curb, with one hand on the reins. I don’t understand the terminology used by some in this thread – a “finished” horse – a properly trained horse is never “finished” in the sense of not needing any more schooling.[/QUOTE]
Um, do you ride western???
Because you really, really are missing a lot of information. Western bits aren’t like dressage bits, and the way we communicate with our hands isn’t the same. Curb bits are determined by the age of the horse, not their level of training. Morgans? Very common for even 3yo’s to be showing in curbs although I did see one using a snaffle at World’s last year. Arabs must be in a curb at the age of 6.
Western dressage.
So, a horse must be in a curb by a certain age regardless of where he is in his training and what age he was when he was first backed?
That is sort of similar to dressage, in which the bit is determined (to an extent) by what level the horse is doing. But I believe one does not have to move up to a double bridle at 4th Level; it is just at that level I think that you can move up.
But some horses do not start dressage until they are older, if they come to it from another discipline, for example, so it depends on the level of training rather than the horse’s age in itself.
I do know that traditionally western horses are not ridden with as much contact as “English”-discipline horses are, and that the difference in the degree of contact affects the bit used.
What I am reading on this thread is that the change is from a snaffle to a curb rather than a certain type of snaffle to a certain type of curb.
But of course none of that has anything to do with the fact that western horses benefit from centered, balanced riding that helps them learn self-carriage being ridden off the rider’s seat and legs more than depending on the bit to set head carriage and “correct” problems with how the horse carries himself. That is why traditional dressage is reaching out to and welcoming western riders and horses. The ways of going are different (and watching “western vs. dressage” videos I usually prefer the western horse’s way of going, but that is usually reining horses, not WP horses); but every horse in every discipline benefits from learning how to be forward and through. To carry his head naturally and not be bitted into a frame.
I don’t know if you all are talking about this kind of western pleasure–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17YnLlKLa4M
or this kind, which is more like what WP classes were when I was young–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvur_X_omtI
but this is how I like to see a good western horse move–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSIAfXlILSY
[QUOTE=RPM;8180270]
That is why traditional dressage is reaching out to and welcoming western riders and horses. [/QUOTE]
:lol: Oh, that’s a good one. Surely you jest.
RPM, you’re coming across here as if you think you’re a big expert reaching out to the great unwashed who populate the COTH Western Forum. It’s not the best way to encourage friendly dialog.
[QUOTE=RPM;8180286]
I don’t know if you all are talking about this kind of western pleasure–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17YnLlKLa4M
or this kind, which is more like what WP classes were when I was young–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvur_X_omtI
but this is how I like to see a good western horse move–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSIAfXlILSY[/QUOTE]
My horse isn’t a fancy pleasure horse by any means. I’m just wanting to show him in open western classes this summer because he’s got a nice jog and he can hold a decent frame.
[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;8180334]
:lol: Oh, that’s a good one. Surely you jest.
RPM, you’re coming across here as if you think you’re a big expert reaching out to the great unwashed who populate the COTH Western Forum. It’s not the best way to encourage friendly dialog.[/QUOTE]
LOL, I had the same thought. Am I the only one who started thinking of the “no, no, it’s Dressage not dressage. The D is capitalized” discussion from a bit ago? Funny, because I grew up watching Eitan and Holiday Compadre… Pretty darn sure I remember dressage riders everywhere were clutching their pearls at dressage even being connected with anything western… Dressage riders aren’t reaching out. Western dressage started, and it’s only recently that dressage riders have begun tolerating it and actually including it. Western dressage riders have been seeking that inclusion, not the other way around.
While the majority of dressage riders are great, it’s the few who are sure they are superior BECAUSE they ride Dressage (remember, not dressage) that ruin the image of the sport for everyone else. It never really takes long before one of these DQ’s is chiming in on how you’re riding your saddleseat/jumper/western horse wrong.
OP hope you get some useful info on your bit search. Not surprised to see once again that a topic in the Western forum has turned into a Dressage Is Better Than WP thread.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8180455]
OP hope you get some useful info on your bit search. Not surprised to see once again that a topic in the Western forum has turned into a Dressage Is Better Than WP thread.[/QUOTE]
I was riding a western pleasure Arab in the barn and got a lecture from the resident DQ about how I didn’t understand forward or contact. I took great delight in taking my dressage half Arab out next.
I honestly don’t get it… Dressage riders have entirely their own forum. Why venture into this one? If I don’t agree with something a discipline does, I just stay out of their forum.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8180455]
OP hope you get some useful info on your bit search. Not surprised to see once again that a topic in the Western forum has turned into a Dressage Is Better Than WP thread.[/QUOTE]
That may be one reason the western forum can’t get much traction.
When someone posts about any western discipline related topic, as a discussion of the hows and whys gets started, some jump in to tell everyone how misguided to just horrible and abusive they are for following that discipline.
I wonder if the dressage, hunter/jumper, eventing/driving forums have the same happening there, if the breeding forum has posters telling them off for breeding, etc.?
I am not talking about someone giving their opinion, ignorant that it is many times of what is being talked about.
It is when some won’t let discussions happen, but keep posting about their disdain of what others do and become increasingly insulting with it.
What happen to letting everyone do their own thing?
RPM really doesn’t get it…
There are kind ways of training WP, and there are cruel ways. I’ve seen both in Arabian land. I don’t doubt AQHA has some incredibly kind and ethical trainers who take the time to get the results kindly to balance out the less than kind trainers. AQHA WP isn’t my thing, but hey… It clearly makes other people happy, so I’ll go enjoy my horses my way and not worry about how other people enjoy theirs. About the only thing I universally condemn is big lick walkers, for obvious reasons.
No other discipline I know of feels the need to correct other riders the way I see with certain dressage riders. I had one a bit ago (who has since moved out of our barn, fortunately) ream me for an entire ride on a western pleasure Arab because I didn’t understand contact or forward. I took my big HA hunter pleasure mare out next… But seriously, how hard is it to just leave other people the eff alone???
Most dressage riders are great. But man, there are a few that really need to STFU.
I seem to recall it was Al Dunning talking about one particular bit a horse of his liked, one that was a solid mouthpiece but it wasn’t well balanced and would tip to one side if you balanced it on your finger under the port…he tried to put another bit on the horse that was ‘better’ but the horse was not happy about the change at all 
Sometimes it’s good to play around with different bits until you find the one your horse likes and listens to contentedly. Seeking that bit of signal with a subtle hand or wrist tilt takes some experimenting.
here’s another that may give you enough communication via the loose shanks and the comfortable mouth shape/flexion.
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