Western type saddle for life long English rider

If all you’re going to do is flat work then a Mac might work if it fits YOU. But the Mac was designed for small framed men, circa the 19th Century. I’ve NEVER found it comfortable. Originals are particularly problematical as they have the narrow trees of the time and will sore up a back in short order if they are not fitted correctly. They were designed to put the rider into a forked, chair seat. For anything other than flat work they are at best marginally suitable. The Army tried as early as the md-1880s to retire the Mac as they knew of it’s shortcomings. They did some testing and decided a Whitman design would work well and the proposal was on it’s way to acceptance until it got to the desk of the Chief of Staff in those days, one William Tecumseh Sherman. He declined to make the switch because at that time the Army had tens of thousands of Mac trees in warehouses left over from the ACW.

They tried again in 1912 with the Experimental saddles for both Officers and Troopers. They were characterized by an attempt at a “flexible” tree. The design failed as it was not robust enough for field work.

There were additional trials being conducted post 1912 but by the time a few were starting to emerge as possibles the Army saw WWI on the horizon and decided not to try and change saddles just before a major conflict. So when the U.S. went to war in 1917 the '04 Mac went, too. During the War over 900,000 Macs were produced. It stayed in service until 1948.

G.

I have a Schleese Devin Trail saddle which I LOVE. Definitely has the narrower twist and lots of flexibility in terms of fit. Pricey tho.

In my father’s WWII Field Artillery manual there are two saddles in the Equitation chapter, the McClellan and the “modified” McClellan (with English-style flaps).

In the early-to-mid-'70s I did some trail riding in an old McClellan (no flaps, western-style cinch) and found it very comfortable as well as lightweight. And I have never been a small-framed man! :smiley:

ETA: I don’t guess any of our recommendations matter to the thread as the OP apparently hasn’t been here in over a week.

I guess you either love the Mac or you don’t. I don’t. I did get to try a Grimsley Dragoon saddle and a Whitman from the 1880s. The Grimsley puts you where it thinks you need to be and keeps you there! :wink: But it wasn’t unpleasant. The Whitman was less “structured” but still quite comfortable.

I hope the OP found what they needed!!! :slight_smile:

G.

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I will not recommend any brand, but you can get an endurance saddle in western leathers, or a hybrid. For size you fit a 15" western seat you will need a 16" minimum in an endurance. Cantle 3" gullet 7-7.5 inches, swell 10 - 11 inches. If you ride english 19" you will need a 17 - 18" seat, perhaps choosing the larger. Also make sure they have double D’s on each side. You may want to center fire cinch. I do not want to predict gender but a narrow twist implies a female rider, so this would mean a lady saddle. So I suggest you google ladies endurance saddle. Since I train gaiters, I have a ladies endurance gaited treed saddle that fits a variety of horses, feels like an english contact saddle, has a rounded skirt, and a lower than most leather drop and is light. I did have to change out the nylon girth to leather, and changed the endurance western stirrups to english stirrups and leathers. Mine is just a clean looking saddle that will accept english or western leathers and cinches /girths and is probably the best thing I have ever rode. You can get them with or without a horn. Mine is hornless.

Try the Ghost Treeless saddles. Narrow twist, leg blocks, only 10 lbs, adjustable stirrup positions, flexible and adjustable panels to fit a wide variety of horses.

I feel strongly that you should try/ buy a leon liversage Kentucky! It was designed to look more like a western saddle but rides wonderfully balanced and much like a dressage saddle. There are no rolls but it’s secure without them and if you really wanted them I bet the maker could custom make fenders with them… also the fenders are set on more of a leather with a buckle so they r urn easily and are easily adjustable. :smiley:

A western saddle that puts you in a balanced, centered position is a saddle built on a wade style tree. the wade can be found light weight–mine is 15 lbs. it has a very short horn that is out of your way. to get a narrow twist on any saddle, have the saddle maker skive (shave) the ground seat to make it as narrow as possible.

Well made wades are not cheap, but what is it worth to you to sit effortlessly upright and balanced in the saddle, pain free for hours and miles on end? See if you can find a Mccall Lady Wade used.

My own saddle is a Fred Hook trail saddle built on a featherweight custom Wade tree. the Fred Hook is an adaptation of the cavalry saddle, and has cavalry rigging, no skirts, and a deep seat. they are very popular with backcountry outfitters and the US Forest Service because they are very comfortable and durable for hard use, and light weight. the stirrup fenders hang directly from the wood tree and swing, so no sore knees. used Fred hooks are very hard to find but have been known to show up on Craigslist or eBay. they can be purchased new from montana pack and saddlery in Bigfork, MT.

I also need a very narrow twist, as i have hip problems. I found all the endurance saddles I tried to be too wide for me the wade instantly felt right

TW Saddlery is part of Specialized Saddles. I purchased a Texas Wade from them and adore it (as does my horse).

They are a bit pricy but were lovely to work with. My very English instructor was perfectly comfortable in my saddle.

Concur.

Several years ago one of our local tack shops tried to sell me a Stubben Maestro. I sat in it and the saddle put me precisely where a German dressage coach wants the student to be. It was VERY confining. I’ve sat the Grimsley saddle which is also pretty confining but never felt as “restricted” as that Maestro.

The Scout has a slightly “roughened” seat. Not full suede, but not a “slick leather” either. It’s actually pretty good to give you a little “help” if you need it but not “tie you down” if you don’t.

G.

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Not an endurance rider (yet) but I love my Wintec D’Lux. It’s super-light without irons (my irons are heavy, but that’s because I don’t like light irons when I lose them) suede, sits like a dressage saddle and is SUPER secure. I use it on my green-bean all the time when I want to be velcroed in. I took the knee blocks out, because I hate that feeling, and paired with some grippy breeches I was pretty sure the only way I was coming off is if I intended to bail. It will be my saddle of choice once I get a truck and trailer so that I can get to good trails for endurance!

Wow, I have never seen a saddle like that Grimsley saddle before! I had never even heard of it. It looks like what I would have wanted back when I was trying to ride while contending with major agoraphobia and other anxiety complications.

@OneGrayPony I like the look of the D’Lux without the knee blocks. I like the all-suede even better than the 2000, which I have liked for several years.

Has the OP ever come back to see what-all we’re suggesting?

The Grimsley is actually quite comfortable and pretty secure. It was replaced by the McClellan 'cause the Grimsely was about $40/per and the Mac could come in at under $20. The Mac lead a “charmed life” as every time a replacement was sought economy or national emergency saved it. It also has seen use in Poland after WWI, Mongolia during WWII by USN weather personnel, and by the armies of Rhodesia and South Africa during the '70s and '80s.* Both the Grimsley and Mac will put you in a forked seat as that was the dominant seat when they were designed and in use.

G.

*I correspond with a couple of guys who were officers in Grey’s Scouts, a mounted dragoon unit of the Rhodesian Army. They have some great tales of engaging insurgent forces with very high levels of success. They were so successful that when they moved from one op area to another the insurgents left town! :slight_smile: I also have corresponded with a former Portuguese officer who commanded a mounted dragoon unit in Angola in the '70s. He, too, said that they were among the regular forces most feared by the insurgents. In both cases mounted troops could approach insurgent camps in great silence and were also very effective in using highly mobile, small units to effect ambushes. Stealth works on the ground, too. Interestingly, in both instances when the countries became independent they maintained mounted units, but on a much smaller scale, for several years.

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That saddle is GORGEOUS! It is pretty much the style I ride in now, but mine is cheaper (bargain basement), and I even switched out the stirrups for endurance style. I love my cheapo saddle -if I could afford the sticker I’d definitely go for this Specialized International. They ride just like a dressage saddle, and are legal in the Western Dressage ring.

Paula

Reminds me a little of Morgan and Forrest.

Try Bob Marshall treeless. Very light. Close contact and they make western and the endurance have no horn. Been riding in them for 15 years.

My friends call me the goldilocks of saddles because I buy and sell so many. Back when I was a child, i learned hunt seat and dressage. Then i rode western for many years. Starting with a wintec western. My wintec western is still my favorite saddle if it fits. It puts you in a nice position with your heels and hip aligned perfectly. Those wintecs are nearly indestructible! The belvins buckle rusted off and had to be replaced after about 15 years.

Recently I switched to a Tekna dressage saddle. The material is far superior to wintec. It doesn’t matter if it is pouring rain, you have excellent grip in that saddle. The Tekna has a narrow twist, so it doesn’t fit a bigger rider. Tekna also sells a swinging fender saddle which looks like a nice endurance saddle with an adjustable gullet. The only issue with that saddle is i believe you would have to ship it from Australia. I’m tempted to do just that!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm1T3iFGejk

Right now i ride in both the Tekna dressage and wintec western. My third saddle is a Kuda Paso Fino saddle which has a super comfortable seat, but the position of the rider isn’t as great for posting. I bought the Kuda for my Paso but it fit the Paint better. I like that saddle for the summer when it is too hot for strenuous rides. It feels like sitting on a pillow.

​​​​​​Kuda saddles look like a hornless endurance saddle. Worth trying if you can find one but most come in narrow gullets so you would have to look for a wide one. They sell like hot potatoes. Mine is ancient - the new ones are different and would be worth trying. Mine has a super narrow twist and is extremely light weight. Nice!

My 4th pick would be the Fabtron western saddle. They sell a hornless one as well. I’ve had mine about ten years and it looks great. Not really show worthy though, but it’s gotten soaked and abused and seems to barely show any wear.

​​​​​​I do not like solid leather saddles- the seat is slick, they mold easily in this humidity, and i have trouble with the western fenders. Most adult western fenders are too long for my legs or there is too much bulk by my ankles. Compared to some of the newer synthetics, they just aren’t as comfortable.

As for Wintec English saddles, i never found one that fit my horses. My friend has a percheron cross and a round pony and it fit her horses just fine. It seems to fit broad backed horses. It also fit one of my friend’s Andalusians.

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OP, I don’t know if you have found a saddle yet, but I just bought a very comfortable Lovatt and Ricketts Solstice Endurance saddle. I too am a life long English rider and used to have a Western saddle for trail riding but found it too constricting and heavy. I love my Solstice. It comes in dressage billets or hunt seat short billets and is made from buffalo leather, Very comfortable and I feel secure but not constricted. I found mine on Ebay for under 2000.

I never liked the McClellan because I’m a lot larger than a Civil War cavalryman and my prodigious posterior just can’t fit them. However, a few years ago, I stumbled across a modern reproduction built with a wide tree and a 14" seat. The original McClellans came in 11", 11.5", and 12" seats, so a 14 is significantly larger. To my pleasant surprise, it fits me very well and is quite comfortable. McClellan replicas can be gotten with wider trees from several makers but this is the only one I’ve found with a longer seat. If you’re not too big, you might be happy with a modern replica of a Mac. Also, the M1913 packer saddle was built with a wider tree and a few other differences from the standard McClellan, the most obvious of which is a brass horn. Like the Mac, it has attachment points galore.

The other super-comfortable saddle I’ve found is an M1917 packer saddle which is actually a militarized western saddle. I have a skeleton-rigged version which has no skirts and includes attachment rings and staples similar to the McClellan. I also have the full-rigged M1917 packer which has the normal western saddle skirts and full leather. They’re both extremely comfortable. They were built on a “working cowboy” tree back in a time when a man might be in the saddle literally all day and part of the night, so comfort was crucial.

I’m a big fan of Australian saddles as well and have trail ridden many a mile in a Bates Aussie. It sits much like a dressage saddle but deeper and more secure.

My husband is a western rider (I’m a lifelong English rider) and when I ride western he puts me in what he calls a “slick fork” saddle that doesn’t have the swells of a bigger western saddle. I also preffer the circular, metal Ox Bow stirrups and a shorter stirrup than is usual. These seem to make a ton of difference to my comfort. When we go on riding vacations out west my but gets this awful egg on it from the hard saddles so now take a seat cover! My knees can’t take eight hours with the long stirrup and big wide stirrup. My neighbor who switched to reining from jumpers has a lovely, light weight saddle in dark leather that looks divine. I honestly cannot lift my husband’s big, heavy saddles on our taller horses.