Westminster Dog Show Monday & Tuesday

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Calamber;6835044]
and the quality of the Portuguese Water Dog has already been commented upon. [/QUOTE]

Um, by whom, exactly? Two people who don’t show dogs said they didn’t like it; a couple others admitted it was an upset.

Apparently there are a few judges who quite liked it over the last 3 months:

Greater Ocala Dog Club 11/18/2012 B/G1
Savannah Kennel Club 11/29/2012 B/G3
Beaufort Kennel Club, 11/30/2012 B/G1/RBIS
Beaufort Kennel Club, 12/01/2012 B/G1/RBIS
Savannah Kennel Club 12/02/2012 B/G1/BIS
Greater Hickory Kennel 12/07/2012 B
Forsyth Kennel Club, Inc. 12/08/2012 B/G1
Forsyth Kennel Club, Inc. 12/09/2012 B/G2
Greater Daytona Dog 01/05/2013 B/G1
Greater Daytona Dog 01/06/2013 B/G1
Northern Neck Kennel 01/09/2013 B
Northern Neck Kennel 01/10/2013 B
Greater Fredericksburg 01/11/2013 B/G3
Greater Fredericksburg 01/12/2013 B/G2
Chesapeake Kennel 01/13/2013 B
Annapolis Kennel Club 01/17/2013 B/G4
Carroll Kennel Club 01/18/2013 OS
Carroll Kennel Club 01/19/2013 B
Annapolis Kennel Club 01/20/2013 B/G3
Middle Peninsula Kennel 01/26/2013 B/G1
Middle Peninsula Kennel 01/27/2013 B/G1/BIS
Westminster Kennel C 02/11/2013 B/G1

ETA: the more I look at the show records of her and the Doberman, I don’t think it was actually that much of an upset. She wasn’t a “nobody” that’s for sure.

[Anne_FS]

If anybody thinks that any judge is out there thinking, “ooo, I’m putting up THAT dog because the POTUS has one” they’re nuts. There are judges great, good, so-so, and crappy, but I don’t think even the crappy ones do that.

[GotGait]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;6835175]
If anybody thinks that any judge is out there thinking, “ooo, I’m putting up THAT dog because the POTUS has one” they’re nuts. There are judges great, good, so-so, and crappy, but I don’t think even the crappy ones do that.[/QUOTE]

I’d be far more inclined to think internal politics rather than Presidential level. LOL

[Horsegal984]

I was reading Calamber’s post as the American public made the PWD popularity soar and quality drop after POTUS got one. Maybe I was the one misreading it.

[S1969]

To be honest, I highly doubt the Pouch Cove breeders had any change in their breeding program based on the president owning one.

[leilatigress]

Fifi is one lovely dobe. It’s one thing when you can hide the faults behind hair but when it’s all out there you gotta be flawless and Fifi really is. I really liked the boxer too though it was a bit short and square for what I have been seeing. I wished they would have shown more of the Akita as that’s my secret closet love breed and of course the Rhodesian Ridgeback.

Terrier group! I was laughing when the bully made it a point to get the bait on the floor. I was really rooting for the Cairn terrier or the Westie, both crushes of mine. Cairn terriers are a lovely breed.

Toy dogs do have their place and I really wish someone would have told my Yorkie he was only supposed to be a companion dog! While he was only 5lbs a better ratter I have never met and a better herd dog I have met but he tried and was successful at it. I actually did obedience trials with him and he was a solid little guy. When I worked for a vet there was a fabulous shih tzu who was the epitome of her breed and a registered therapy dog. She brings comfort to everyone who touches her and that is a job.

[Anne_FS]

[QUOTE=leilatigress;6835212]

Toy dogs do have their place and I really wish someone would have told my Yorkie he was only supposed to be a companion dog![/QUOTE]

Your Yorkie is correctimundo. Yorkshire terriers are descended from real working terriers. In fact, they weren’t even called Yorkshire Terriers, but broken-haired Scotch terriers.

[sunridge1]

I’m with those who said it’s a travesty. Have you seen what it’s done to the GSD’s? The Cavaliers, and even the Poodle (according to my groomer who is a breeder). I’ve watched Westminster for many years with excitement until I became educated. And then later couldn’t find a sound GSD to save my life. Harmful, harmful breeding and some have gone beyond the tipping point.

[GotGait]

I hope those of you who are appalled never show hunters, do lead line classes (the horror dressing up those poor kiddies in gigantic show bows), halter classes, dressage, breed horses, or any kind of activity that is judged subjectively.
I don’t have anything against the things I just listed, and I see no difference between breeding horses for a specific function or look and a dog show.
It’s been in vogue for years now to sneer at purebred breeders and while some of breeds have gone off the rails - GSD’s - I see way more sound dogs of my breed in the ring. Mine is not the only one.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=GotGait;6835336]
I hope those of you who are appalled never show hunters, do lead line classes (the horror dressing up those poor kiddies in gigantic show bows), halter classes, dressage, breed horses, or any kind of activity that is judged subjectively.
I don’t have anything against the things I just listed, and I see no difference between breeding horses for a specific function or look and a dog show.
It’s been in vogue for years now to sneer at purebred breeders and while some of breeds have gone off the rails - GSD’s - I see way more sound dogs of my breed in the ring. Mine is not the only one.[/QUOTE]

Seriously. I bet they have a lot fewer sharps containers at dog shows than hunter shows.

And I love the terriers, but I am partial to several of the toys (including sort of crossover terriers.) Big dogs have their place but so do little ones. I have my breed distastes (unreasoning prejudice against Pomeranians, Bostons, for example) but they’re just my tastes. Some people adore those breeds. I think Shar Peis are adorable, I’m sure some people think they’re hideous.

[S1969]

I think the better comparison is to say – how would you feel about a person who watches ONE horse show on TV once a year (if they don’t forget about it being televised) and then comments on conformation, judging or the riding. Or better yet - for them to say “I showed a horse when I was young (30 years ago) and it was totally different back then” or “It’s terrible that these <dressage> show horses don’t actually get judged on important things like rounding up cattle.”

Sorry, people, but that’s how it sounds to those of us that actually participate in dog sports (including, but not limited to, conformation shows). Owning a dog doesn’t make anyone an expert in anything but their own dog. Watching a dog show on TV and disagreeing with the BIS judge is equivalent to me watching the Olympics and saying “well, how hard is that? The horse does all the work.”

Of course there are poor breeders, poor judges, and poor examples of every breed, just as there are poor trainers, riders and examples of every breed of horse. But there are also dedicated breeders, breed clubs, kennel clubs and lots and lots of doting owners who actually make breeding and exhibiting excellently bred dogs more of a priority than two evenings a year.

[GotGait]

Good point. Dog people get two nights a year. When the Olympics were on, how many dumb comments about “dancing horses” did everyone hear? Is it fun to listen to the uneducated masses mock your sport?
Has anyone heard about anything like the Humble scandal ever happening at Westminster?
And my point is that any high profile sport/hobby is going to have some bad apples.

[sunridge1]

What is wrong is they are not breeding “some” of these dogs to their original “working” standard. Same with horse breed shows. What you get is a bastardization with a bunch of genetic issues. While your breed may be safe right now I wouldn’t count on it in the future. My family has owned GSD’s for over 50 years. We’ve had a few true quality dogs form international breeders over 30 years ago. The last 3 that I’ve owned were sound and had no abnormalities. My last girl had all ancestors titled in her extended pedigree. No American breeding. She was sound until the very end. Still went on trail rides with me until congestive heart failure took over. I wanted to get another. Can’t trust anyone’s bloodlines anymore, EU or USA. They are not good using dogs anymore. It totally broke my heart. The first time since before I was born, NONE of family owns one, me included. I bought an Aussie instead. Great pup, I like her a lot, but she’s no good GSD. I’d sooner buy from BYB than one of the BNB’s right now.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=sunridge1;6835383]
I’d sooner buy from BYB than one of the BNB’s right now.[/QUOTE]

Good luck; not sure you’ll be “luckier” with a breeder that doesn’t do anything to test the health & soundness of their puppies. But it seems like you could certainly find a GSD breeder of working lines?

[sunridge1]

Apparently they are just as suspect from what I’ve seen. And to be honest there should not be a difference. They are/were a true working dog which should have the conformation to do so whether a bench show or a trial. That seems to big the elephant in the room, breeding at odds with the standard with the judges awarding them.

They are either in over drive or roach backed or cow hocked. That is just what I can see. All the while asking at least 2k for the blatant nightmare.

Believe me when I say that the dysplasia tests mean almost nothing since it’s already part of the genetic code. They don’t declare the dog is free from a genetic abnormality. I am not sure about the elbows and the eyes. Guessing they are also recessive.

[Renn_aissance]

I don’t know anything about dogs; I like to watch Westminster and Crufts to see the variety of breeds. I don’t know any of the breed criteria, either, so I can only judge them by how they look when they trot up. I stopped watching the German Shepherds after they always looked lame but so many of these animals are just beautiful dogs and every year I learn something new about one of them.

Last night I watched the Terrier group with my housemate’s dog Josephine. Josephine is a German Shepherd (supposedly purebred from people who breed them as farm dogs… maybe she’ll grow into it.) She was a trip- totally relaxed until she saw the Bull Terrier, and then she started play-bowing, cavorting, and trying to get it to play. Bull Terrier moved off screen, she went back to her bone. Bull Terrier back on screen, up she goes to the TV. Same with the Cairn. She didn’t think any of the other dogs were worth her interest, but every time she saw the Bull Terrier or the Cairn, it was havoc.

PS, thanks to whomever posted the link to the hunting poodles- way cool! If I ever got a dog, it would be a poodle. For the past 7 years or so I’ve dog-sat for a poodle a few times a year, and he is the neatest dog.

[IdahoRider]

A German Shepherd Dog can have hips rated “excellent” by OFA and still be nothing but American Showlines. A dog can have hips rated “poor” and be nothing but working lines.

You can’t just look at a dog and say with any authority that they have poor hips. Or good hips. It just doesn’t work that way. I did NOT like the GSD in the herding group. But you can’t look at her and say that she has bad hips, based only on looking at her.

I am a German Shepherd Dog person from way back. I have owned them and trained them for just about every venue you can think of. I own one now. The things that are wrong with the breed go way beyond conformation and hips.
Sheilah

[Emryss]

For what it’s worth, a local Doberman handler I know wasn’t terribly surprised that Mr. Vandiver didn’t pick Fifi, and was quick to praise the Portie.

And yes, there are superstar names in the handlers, just as in the horse trainers. I am lucky enough to know a few of them. Funny, the ones I know count themselves lucky to have had the privilege of having great dogs to handle, and minimize their own considerable skill in training, conditioning, and presenting their client dogs. True sports(wo)men, and I admire them.

As it is, though - owner-handlers can and do do well in the sport. The Cavalier, Halli Galli, was owner-handled, for instance - and he made the cut.

I like Westminster, but I must admit that I really prefer watching breed judging over Groups. It is especially enlightening if you’re lucky enough to see a large class being judged - then you can see what the judge is looking for at the breed level, and what the pet peeves are.

[IdahoRider]

I did a quick check on the GSD, and her hips are actually rated “good”. So hock walker or not, she has good hips.
Sheilah

[S1969]

[QUOTE=IdahoRider;6835470]
A German Shepherd Dog can have hips rated “excellent” by OFA and still be nothing but American Showlines. A dog can have hips rated “poor” and be nothing but working lines.

You can’t just look at a dog and say with any authority that they have poor hips. Or good hips. It just doesn’t work that way. [/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. That is true of all breeds, which is why good breeders use OFA and PennHip, etc. As a prospective puppy buyer of just about any breed - you should insist on hips being evaluated (and elbows, patellas, eyes, heart, etc. depending on the breed.)

@Emryss;6835472

I like Westminster, but I must admit that I really prefer watching breed judging over Groups. It is especially enlightening if you’re lucky enough to see a large class being judged - then you can see what the judge is looking for at the breed level, and what the pet peeves are.

I agree. The public imagines that dog shows = Westminster but many of them don’t realize the breed judging that goes on before the groups. My breed only had maybe 15 entries at WKC. Not a bad one among them, but hardly a huge representation of the great dogs in our breed. You’ll see more Brittanys in March at the NE Sporting Dog show; not all champions but not necessarily any less deserving of the breed win.