That’s very impressive. Definitely goals. My favorite part is how relaxed she is with all of that.
My horse knows all the lateral work but he is so so far out from being able to do any of it in long lines. He’s already a little bit of an overthinker so have to keep things pretty simple for a while.
I noticed you don’t use a surcingle. Is that because you’re using a halter or just the fact that she’s so confident about it all that you don’t need one? Sorry I’m learning.
Not all western trainers want disengagement of the hindquarters. That sounds like some sort of NHS BS. A good western started horse should come with brakes installed. 
Oh under saddle he has brakes. But when he’s learning something new he’s just a little tense and overthinks things.
And yes I didn’t mean to throw shade any western trainers. I started riding Western myself when I was a kid before any dressage entered the picture. But according to the lady I bought him from and what we’ve seen, he didn’t really get the most complete start under saddle. And he definitely was taught to disengage hindquarters. In fact going straight is his biggest challenge sometimes lol. It’s not his fault though but we are filling in holes. Even if that was the intended purpose of this! I just wanted to work him with lunging on a small circle.
Well…most of the reason for no surcingle is time constraints. I have ground driven her since she was a baby (2yo) so yes, she is pretty confident with the process. I also had her drag tires and she has even dragged some broken tree limbs when she was younger. She was kind of a 98lb weakling as a youngster. I did not start her under saddle until she was 4. She did not really fill out and acquire some muscle until she was nearly 5. I do use a bridle and surcingle when I double lunge but for a quick ground work session or drive around the property, I just use the halter and no surcingle. I usually do a quick 5-10 minute warm-up lunge to gauge her attitude for the day before we take off
I love long-lining! As much as I enjoy riding, it’s such a pleasure to watch my horses move, and long-lining allows that. Horses are so beautiful to watch!
Started youngsters that way, and come back to it now and then for the adults. I normally use a surcingle and two long lines meant for the purpose.
However, when I worked with Vitor Silva of Sons of the Wind in clinics, he used a much shorter cotton rope in place of long lines, enabling the person to be closer to the horse without having a lot of excess line in the hands. I made up my own version of that, and use it occasionally.
It’s a very useful skill, and comes in handy, not just for introducing new skills. When I would take a young horse out someplace with lots of distractions, assuming that there was an appropriate space (not in an arena), I’d bring along my surcingle and lines to long-line first for a few minutes, before saddling up (I’ve never been much of a fan of lunging). Not to run the horse around, but to work on focus and dealing with hoopla, by doing something familiar and reassuring. With an older horse, it can also be used to help leg them up after a period of inactivity (health or weather related, for instance).
When I’ve participated in clinics, if the clinician is a known expert in long-lining, I’ve always asked that my session(s) concentrate on this area. Clinicians have seemed to welcome the opportunity to give a long-lining lesson – I guess it makes a change from one rider after another.
That is what I do. I have 2 very light cotton ropes for my driving lines that I made myself. I find anything commercial way too heavy. Kyra is quite sensitive and I didn’t like that much weight hanging from her mouth. I will say that when I built them, she could still be quite a handful and she didn’t respect that light a line. But patience and continued work and now the lighter lines work very well. When I do ground driving like I did in the video, I just use one as my rein. I just tie a bowline around the halter ring. If I was smart, I would put another snap on the other end.
If I were going to try to do it off of a halter (probably one of those hybrid rope halters) do you guys think I could still do the line over his back and do double lunging or is it best as a true ground driving (behind him) when using a halter? It wasn’t sure if the halter versus the bridle would make the communication different. Not sure if I’m making any sense!
I think with the halter, you need to be able to run the lines lower. Otherwise you probably pull the noseband up into the cheek bones including when the horse reaches down, which would be applying a negative type pressure in a positive situation. I’ve only used a rope type halter as a cavesson with the snap at the nose to encourage the horse to flex inward (instead of counter flex away from jaw area pressure) when normal lunging.
If I do double lunging, I do use the bridle and surcingle. I save the one line for ground driving. I don’t often do both in the same session. I either double lunge or I ground drive. I do use a Hybrid halter when I ground drive. I do love that thing. It has been a real help for ground work. The rope noseband is nice but the ‘meat’ of the halter is like a normal halter so I have the rings to use for reins. My horse is only 15.2 so the lines seem to be in the right position (similar position to where the side rings are on the surcingle). Very occasionally I ride her in it too. Usually winter when I do not want to subject her (or my hands) to a cold bit.
You can put the line over his back with the halter, just make sure the line is also run through the lowest surcingle ring.
The one difference between this video is we haven’t been running the line back and hooking it to the surcingle, which I think is what they did in this video? Unless that side reins… Anyways we’ve just been longline right to the bit. I kind of get the feeling my trainer did that first to make sure that we did indeed have brakes. Because he can be weird about pressure. He can be ultra sensitive or a bulldozer sometimes when he wants to be.
I welcome any thoughts! Also my lines aren’t that long at all. Maybe about half that long in the video. And they’re pretty lightweight feeling.
My hope is that I can just get us both comfortable enough of this that we can just do it for a few minutes before riding or instead of riding that day. Basically look into replace lunging for him.
Using the cotton rope as basically a single rein is what Vitor did, too, so that’s what I copied. It’s nice to work so close to the horse sometimes, especially for lateral movements. The rope rein he had, that I duplicated as best I could, was similar to the type used for halter leads (but not the heavy, thick stuff).
My long lines are mostly fairly lightweight cotton webbing (lighter than my lunge line), with long rolled nylon sections that attach to the bit that can easily slide through the turrets on my surcingle. Mine were supplied by the person who made my surcingle.
I watched almost all of this video (skipped a few seconds here and there). Her lines do seem long, and kinda heavy.
I personally don’t flap the lines at the horse to get it moving, as I believe that would impact the mouth. Same with moving along with the horse, I prefer not to have the lines bouncing along too much, as it seems to me that would also impact the mouth (naturally some movement is gonna happen). I try to be quite aware of the fact that running a line from the girth through the bit ring, hence through the turret to my hand, gives me a lot of leverage, and preserving the mouth is always in my mind.
It is good that you are working with someone. As much as I appreciate the art of long-lining, I’m aware that, as always when working with horses, there is the possibility of a dangerous situation arising. Confused horse could begin running backwards rapidly, or spin itself inside the lines. Line could get caught around a foot (either horse or human), which could go badly very quickly, etc.
If at all possible, IMO, it is best to learn long-lining in person from a very experienced trainer, and practice practice practice under supervision. But once learned, it’s an invaluable tool.
Ya that should be fine with a halter.
I agree the person in the video is using side reins - I’m not sure why, as that would be like using side reins when you’re riding (you already have reins to the mouth, why are you tying the horse’s head in?).
I get wanting to have brakes, but if you know those are installed I’d move to a halter when you can - that way there’s less risk to his mouth if something happens as you’re learning.
Regarding the line over his back vs around the hind end - that definitely is something he’ll get used to. Depending on the horse, you can stand very close on his side (don’t get kicked!) and hold a line around his butt to get him accustomed to it. Some horses really freak out and kick out, some are fine, and there’s everything in between. 
You can also try a butt rope in the way people teach babies to lead to get him used to it.
I’d put one line around his butt, and have a separate lead line, so you can drop the back line if you need to and still have control.
That sound familiar. Kyra has done that a time or two in her younger years. Luckily no bad sequelae…just unwound her and started again.d
Oh yes we don’t flap at him either and my lines are short. But it’s over the back like this.
You are all so helpful!!! Thank you
Flapping the lines is known as “John Wayne-ing it” around here 
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I’m going to add in one more suggestion. I once had a very experienced instructor, who is a judge and an in-demand clinician, suggest to me that I throw the excess lines over my shoulder to keep them out of my way when working closer to the horse.
I refused, and when the suggestion was repeated, I explained that there was no circumstance in which I was going to follow this advice, as this could clearly go fatally wrong in an instant. I thought this was a terrible idea, and said I’d much rather not break my neck, or strangle myself.
My recommendation is to never ever ever have the lines in a position where they could end up around one’s neck, which I know seems obvious, but apparently some people must do it.
It’s the #1 cardinal sin in driving, ground or put to vehicle!
When you are driving you only have 3 aids, reins, voice and whip, and the one that has the most degree of refinement is the reins. Voice can only duo so much and the top drivers will tell you a whip is ultimately just a “go stick”. If you flap the reins, even if you don’t touch the mouth, you have effectively abandoned all aids, all lines of communication with the horse in a way you never do when riding. It’s like you disappeared, especially if you are out of their sight line or in blinkers, which is a lousy way to train!
The only time the rein aid is “dropped” is after a full halt is requested and complied with. This is also useful in that when there is no rein contact well trained horses are expecting to stand still not wander around.
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