Well, I rode in the Lovett & Ricketts Ellipse yesterday and today on my mare and I really liked it! It has a hoop tree but a narrow twist, so you sit a little higher (which I don’t like, but will tolerate). The saddle just seems to fit right around my horses’ backs. I think I would want a crescent girth with it, but I am really encouraged by this. I lunged the baby in it today and it moved only a very small amount, which I think an adjustment and crescent girth could deal with. I am still waiting for the Trilogy Veragos to arrive, but I am happy with this saddle. I am planning to get on the 4 year old in this saddle Friday (want to lunge one more time and check the before and after). 
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No, but the WOW saddle has changeable head plate, panels, seat, and flaps.
The Vinici rides pretty narrow with the monoflap design. I have a wide hoop tree and it feels pretty narrow in the twist to me. I really like how the serge panels mold to the horse, and the felt can be helpful with saddle stability.
The L&R can be ordered with serge panels too. I work directly with Adrienne Hendricks and she is a big fan of serge, which I have on both my Patrick and BC saddles.
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Interesting! I’ve never been a fan of their saddles, but I’m glad it worked for you. Schleese and Horobin have a similar concept, getting the narrow twist by placing you further up off the horse. How did it go on the 4 year old yesterday?
He was great! Thanks for asking! I even rode him on a cold, windy morning and he was just a star (although a little wobbly, lol–he had 90 days and then a break since April 13). Played with billet placement (there are four options with this saddle) and it stayed in place without a point billet. So happy.
I am now playing with the assortment of knee blocks and there are two stirrup leather positions. I am going to keep this one but order a half size larger because I like more room in the saddle. I’ll have to look at the other mentioned brands but am pretty happy with this (and the County fitter even said I couldn’t do better for a saddle on my young horse who hasn’t popped withers yet). I did get my saddle from Adrienne Hendricks too.
The Trilogy Verago–I did not even ride in it. The wide twist on that saddle and the size and heft of it was not my thing and it perched on top of my horses instead of nestling into a place and wrapping around them like the L & R saddle does.
I did spend about a whopping $1,000 on shipping fees for saddles. One place, Chagrin Saddlery in Ohio is fantastic–they ship a saddle for free and enclose a return label for $75. Most of the other places leave you on your own. The most I spent was at Skylands Saddlery, where it cost $125 each way AND a 3% stocking fee AND they said they would adjust the saddle for the trial and they did not adjust it. Most of the local saddle reps will now charge $250 to visit you and hawk their wares and they will not look at the fit of any other saddles. If they don’t have what you need in stock, it’s a 3-6 month wait. My area is very lean on independent saddle fitters.
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Good information, thanks!
Pelham Saddlery also had very good shipping rates: $55 for one saddle, each way; $75 for two. They enclosed a return shipping label (as did Chagrin Saddlery) which made the return super easy for me. When I returned the used County Epiphany (used for 6 months), I had to pay insurance on it and it cost $168 for one way!!!
Yes, I’ve always found PS good to ship/try saddles with good rates. They just weren’t great about comparing my tracing to the saddle. I usually ended up sending them back, unfortunately.
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I found this true with multiple places. The problem with Pelham’s $55 shipping is that it takes 10 days. In my case, the saddle arrived after I had my fitter out to look at a bunch of saddles and I found that the saddle I like was the best possible fit during that fitting and I bought it. So the saddle from Pelham never left the box. It will also take 10 days in the return, tying up my credit card for longer.
Adrienne Hendricks did a fantastic job fitting my difficult to fit horses, but she also had my Hennig, which I sent to see if it could be repaired and that Hennig was a great fit for them both. The issue there (long story) is that the old Hennig US guy put his own tree in the saddle instead of a Hennig tree when I had the tree replaced and the tree would not stay put after being tossed around at the colt starter’s. He padded around that tree to try and make it fit, but never told me that was what he was going to do. It turns out that Hennig won’t sell (trees or saddles or anything else) outside of the EU now, so that is also why I did not get a used Hennig. I wish I was told this when I sent my Hennig for the tree replacement last fall as I would have been so much further along on a saddle search and would not have wasted over $2k trying to retrofit my Hennig!!! Anyway, the Ellipse she sent was a fantasic fit, for both of my riding horses and for ME! I am ordering another one from her (and interestingly, I like different sized blocks on the two horses). Then in a year, I get to figure out how to fit an entirely different type of horse. But I’m riding my coming 4 year old now and it’s going great! I was worried about having to long a gap after his 90 days (since mid April) but he is being wonderful–standing like a saint at the mounting block too.
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I got my L&R from Adrienne as well and I love riding in it. The saddle fits my barrel-shaped warmblood perfectly, never moves, and I love being able to use different blocks depending on what kind of riding I’m doing that day. I’ve had it 5 years now, still looks brand new. My other horse is very oddly shaped and super difficult to fit. Wound up trying a Trilogy Debbie on him just because the fitter happened to be driving past my place. Weirdly, it wound up fitting the old boy very nicely and was even comfortable for me (which his old County was not). You never know what’s going to work until you try! Congrats on getting your L&R!
I suspect this may be geography dependent via ground shipping. I am in an adjacent New England state to Pelham so shipping to me is just one day via UPS ground. For someone on the other side of the US, UPS ground is going to be a longer journey.
i can’t really address your question. My last two horses were just like yours - narrow and forward girth groove. My current gelding is just built like an apple.
My current saddle is a used Schleese saddle new to me but fitted to me by a Schleese rep. I also have a fairfax girth. The girth does slide up a bit but the saddle (I noticed yesterday for an unrelated reason) marks seem to be similar suggesting it doesn’t slide. But reading you post, I’ll have to assess more carefully.
I found on the first horse I mentioned above, which I rode with a Wintec Isabell and a wintec girth (for here SO MUCH more grippy than standard leather dressage girths), a neoprene pad between the saddle and the saddle pad stopped or slowed down the saddle slipping forward on the slippy saddle pad. I didn’t want the neoprene directly on his back. It worked quite well for us. I might try this with my current fitted saddle as I investigate if my saddle is moving forward with the girth because he’s built like an apple in his mid-section, getting larger on late spring/'summer grass despite him only getting ration balancer.
I can only suspect the growing midsection could be pushing the saddle and girth forward, as I think about it. Check back with me in March, after winter winter grass in his pasture which has so many fewer calories and sugars than the summer ice-cream grass.
I am really liking the Lovatts & Ricketts Eclips so far. It does not ride forward. It has so much adjustability.
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My problem with my old Custom was with the fitter. The saddle always worse after it had been adjusted. I gave up, and went with Schleese - the only people in my area who were able to fit my mare at the time, and we tried every brand we could.
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This. I love, love, love my Custom. The new rep/fitter could not get the fit right on my horse (although I had no issues with the old rep/fitter) and ghosted me on trying to set up a 3rd fitting (within 4 months).
Got a new horse, of course it doesn’t fit him, and it’s consigned with an independent fitter now. Sad to see it go, sad because getting another thru the independent is not really possible, and sad because nothing else fits me like it did. And my horse is pretty ‘standard’ for fit.
Pouty; I’m pouty.
I’m getting serge panels on my Ellipse. You adjust them with an awl stuck through the serge and a twisting motion to “aerate” the wool. I am planning to learn how to do this myself. The rep tells me you can get a much more refined fit with the serge. Since I am not a fan of those thick saddle fitter pads with the shims, I was willing to give this a go.
I forgot to mention how WONDERFUL Adrienne Hendricks was in all this. She did not charge me when my Hennig turned out to be beyond repair (because I can’t get a real Hennig tree). She is letting me hang on to the demo Ellipse in the smaller seat without making me buy it. When mine comes, I’ll ship this one back and she’ll assess the wear and we’ll decide on compensation for that. This is allowing me to fit up my mare and get my 4 year old going. (I will eventually start a whole nother thread on baby horse brain! LOL!) I am getting patent leather cantle and patent leather piping on my saddle (my show boots are patent and I have a shiney matching helmet). My other baby is going to be started next summer, so I will have to do this all over again…
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She is a really lovely person. I’m local and she is happy to have my nutty chestnut mares over to get their saddles fit (which are different brands I did not buy from her). I’ll definitely see if I can work with her on a custom L&R if and when I need a new saddle. I will have to ask her about that serge fluffing next time I’m over as both my dressage saddles are serge panels.
Glad you found a good solution for your horse!
The serge is a thick wool fabric that replaces leather on the panels. The panels themselves are wool flocked. Here is a video of someone working on a trail saddle that has serge panels so you can see how easy this is to do yourself. You have to be knowledgeable enough to tell where your saddle needs the adjustment. Outback Saddles Video #7 Aerating a Serge panel on an australian saddle - YouTube
I would highly recommend not adjusting the serge panels yourself. The are kind of a bugger to do and easy to mess up. They are easy to lump and bump.
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Just a little suggestion for you on saddling your mare: Try crossing the billets so that the one furthest back buckles to the front buckle on the girth, the one closest to her elbow.
I have a mare that sounds like yours and she has an XW Lovatt and Rickets Berkeley dressage saddle. The ol’ switcheroo with the billets improves the fit. The saddle feels more stable on her back and I don’t find her very-forward girth groove to be such a problem.
Oh, and one more saddling hack: Try a string girth. I think those help horses whose toplines and girth grooves don’t cooperate. I like to think that the string girth lets there be small differences in tension across the width of the girth that a solid leather girth just doesn’t allow.
Also, I’d sell the Berkeley if you want what I have. It’s a 17.5 XW with serge panels and some bling, in lovely condition. I love the fit for the mare, I don’t love the balance for me since it’s like so many dressage saddles that are built on a somewhat cut-back head tree and put the rider pretty far behind the withers. I’m one of those weird people that hate that common configuration. But like you, I ride in what I have to in order to fit the horse. These L&R saddles really do fir the wide/round ones. Other than a Tad Coffin, this L&R remains the only dressage saddle that fits around this mare rather than perched on top, raising me that much higher over her back. Custom and N2 Saddlery, I’m looking at you.
