What are you using for stall mats, new construction?

[clanter]

But not everyone can afford 3’ of shavings in the stalls all the time.

I know there is miniature in the there somewhere (our tallest minie is 34 inches so three feet of bedding might be an extreme :lol:

As for subbase… we used six inches of decomposed granite that was leveled then compacted, then add four inches of screened sand then the Paverstone pavers … barn is not big, only 24 by 36 but has 100,000 pounds of materials in the floor

We did raise the barn floor to be at least four inches above grade to keep rain out … around here you can get some unbelievably heavy rains

over the weekend of June 26, 1954, when Hurricane Alice dumped 28 inches of rain into the Pecos drainage, a wall of water 90 feet high swept downriver and destroyed the bridge on U.S. 90 between Langtry and Del Rio.

[Bluey]

Just remember, humans are not horses, horses are not humans, try not to anthropomorphize?

What is comfortable for a horse on it’s four hooves and legs and mass above it may not be for a human on two feet.

Let the HORSE tell you what it prefers, not be determined to go by what we think it should prefer.

We had one large pen with an old concrete slab.
Horses loved to take naps standing on the concrete and then walked off it a few feet to lay down on the soft dirt for more napping.
Once rested, to just stand there, back to the slab they went.

It was clear that, in the whole large pen, that concrete felt best for them just standing there.

All I am saying is, don’t discount concrete flooring.
It is one more perfectly fine option, properly managed.
Just as compacted flooring is fine, properly managed.
Let it get uneven and it is not any more properly managed, something you won’t have happening with concrete flooring.

As for caliche, we have our own caliche pit, so that is why we use it for roads and tried for years to use it in horse stalls.
Driving on caliche when wet is like driving on toothpaste, it is slick and oozes around your tires.
We were continuously having to add flooring to our stalls, so much was picked up when cleaning stalls.

Now, if your horses won’t be in a stall that much, it probably will work just fine for much longer before it needs maintenance.
As I said, with mats, I would not know, we didn’t have those when we were training race horses on caliche floored stalls.

Everyone will manage their horses as they see best and either way will be fine, if it fits your horses.

[Sansena]

@Bluey

Just remember, humans are not horses, horses are not humans, try not to anthropomorphize?

What is comfortable for a horse on it’s four hooves and legs and mass above it may not be for a human on two feet.

Let the HORSE tell you what it prefers, not be determined to go by what we think it should prefer.

We had one large pen with an old concrete slab.
Horses loved to take naps standing on the concrete and then walked off it a few feet to lay down on the soft dirt for more napping.
Once rested, to just stand there, back to the slab they went.

It was clear that, in the whole large pen, that concrete felt best for them just standing there.

All I am saying is, don’t discount concrete flooring.
It is one more perfectly fine option, properly managed.
Just as compacted flooring is fine, properly managed.
Let it get uneven and it is not any more properly managed, something you won’t have happening with concrete flooring.

As for caliche, we have our own caliche pit, so that is why we use it for roads and tried for years to use it in horse stalls.
Driving on caliche when wet is like driving on toothpaste, it is slick and oozes around your tires.
We were continuously having to add flooring to our stalls, so much was picked up when cleaning stalls.

Now, if your horses won’t be in a stall that much, it probably will work just fine for much longer before it needs maintenance.
As I said, with mats, I would not know, we didn’t have those when we were training race horses on caliche floored stalls.

Everyone will manage their horses as they see best and either way will be fine, if it fits your horses.

We get your point Bluey

[OneTwoMany]

We’ve used both straight edge and interlocking 3/4" mats in our stalls. Both work fine. The key is to have a flat, solid base and tight fitting mats. If the base is installed properly, there are no edges to catch a fork or a shovel.

We are in the Northeast and rodents will borrow under everything, given the chance or the invitation. For that reason, I prefer a concrete base in the stalls, aisle, wash stalls, etc. but we have used a variety of compacted materials with tight fitting 3/4" mats on top with very good results.

[mvp]

@Sansena

True, except caliche is notoriously slippery when wet. Imagine crushed chalk… lots of it… and how it doesn’t’ absorb water.

We had to drop the floor about 4" and expose the concrete footers in order to start renovation here. So we’ll use that scraped off caliche to fill low spots and go from there.

On another note, I totally hear you about concrete and mats re: joint pain. I’d so much rather work all day on a dirt floor than poured concrete, even with any kind of mat. its’ absolute torture on my back and calves. The horses seem okay because they’re bed stupidly deep. But not everyone can afford 3’ of shavings in the stalls all the time.

OMG, then caliche sounds worse than mats!

I came of age in the rich, Gordon Gecko 1980s and then in the credit-rich 1990s when the pro I groomed for had 10x10 show stalls bedded with 10 (ten!) bags of shavings at the beginning of their week for a 6 day stay. The stalls were like bowls of shavings. So I think no one today beds enough. But none of us can afford that. Mats weren’t common then, so you really did need shavings to do some of the cushioning job.

I am temped to bed like that when I finally have my own place, but I think the wallet might veto that in short order. So I’ll be in the spot you are as well-- trying to have a nice stall and one that is easy to clean when I’m both the groom and the cash-poor barn owner.

[mvp]

@Bluey

Just remember, humans are not horses, horses are not humans, try not to anthropomorphize?

What is comfortable for a horse on it’s four hooves and legs and mass above it may not be for a human on two feet.

Really? Did you mean to argue that age and work-induced osteoarthritis in the joints of a smaller, lighter biped is a bad, BS-ladden anthropocentric model for what happens in the limbs of horses? Are you sure that’s true in the physiological sense? If anything, I’d think that the “rode hard and put up wet” human would find walking and standing on concrete less wearing than would the much heavier horse.

But you like concrete and you like relativism, so I don’t think we’ll find common ground on anything factual. And I did say that my only form of evidence was about something relatively biological rather than based in pure opinion or preference.

[Bluey]

Really? Did you mean to argue that age and work-induced osteoarthritis in the joints of a smaller, lighter biped is a bad, BS-ladden anthropocentric model for what happens in the limbs of horses? Are you sure that’s true in the physiological sense? If anything, I’d think that the “rode hard and put up wet” human would find walking and standing on concrete less wearing than would the much heavier horse.

But you like concrete and you like relativism, so I don’t think we’ll find common ground on anything factual. And I did say that my only form of evidence was about something relatively biological rather than based in pure opinion or preference.

@Sansena

We get your point Bluey

Ditto to the quoted post there.
We get it, you don’t like concrete floors for horse stalls.
No need to argue, everyone is just stating their opinion.

[mvp]

@Bluey

Ditto to the quoted post there.
We get it, you don’t like concrete floors for horse stalls.
No need to argue, everyone is just stating their opinion.

Your “opinion” about the meaning and problem with anthropomorphism is objectively wrong. Or would you deny all medicine based on animal models as being similarly flawed because, yanno, nothing is comparable between species?

I’ll own the mistakes I make. I won’t own the ones I haven’t made, no matter how you want to serve them up.

Peace out, y’all!