I’ve got a GPS I can wear on my wrist (a Garmin). It keeps track of mileage, elevation, average speed, and top speed. I can check my speed any time I want. It’s fun. I wish I had it on me the day Butch ran away with me so I’d know what speed he reached, but somehow, it felt like cheating to wear it, so I left it at camp. I dont’ intend to go that fast again.
Late to this …
… but all of mine get schooled in dressage in snaffle bits, but for endurance I’ve got two who wear a simple two-rope sidepull hackamore (one is my young horse, who is rateable and a joy to ride in front, behind, wherever at whatever speed, and trust me, he is hothothot by nature).
The other two wear a Little S hackamore, which has just a little bit more leverage but stays nicely out of the way for eating, drinking, leg rubbing, etc.
I’m sure this is a tangent, and I’m a bit of an anal-retentive type re: training, but we rarely, if ever, open our horses up on trail and “race.” Especially with the horses who are not seriously seasoned to going at a sane pace. In fact, I think both of the veteran horses were in their third season of fifties before they ever saw a good galloping fartlek on trail. The young one is in his second season of fifties, and nope, he’s not done that. A canter from time to time, but well in hand.
We have plenty of friends with horses that cannot safely and pleasantly go for a plain ol’ walking trail ride. They go out and “condition” when they ride and so all their horses know is to go and go fast.
Ours do walking trail rides on the buckle because we often do just exactly that. If one of ours thinks he needs to be in front in order to be pleasant, he’s guaranteed to spend lots of quality time 2nd or 3rd in a group.
I’m sure this is something you already know, so I hope it didn’t sound preachy, but our sport is so much more about strategy and training and a cooperative partnership than it is about racing a horse who is anywhere near the edge of control. IM often-in-the-middle-of-the-pack E.
So it seems that many of you are having success with using the Little S Hackamore on more ‘enthusiatic’ horse, is that right?
And thanks for all the info.
Patti - My guy is pretty sane out on a normal trail ride and is learning to go quietly behind (sane as in we can happily walk on the buckle:yes:) The trouble is he is naturally a ‘leader’ type, so while on our regular trail rides this is being worked on at the endurance ride he sees a horse ahead and gets a little excited. The idea on our first ride was to go sloooow and teach him that a ride doesn’t = fast. Hmmm lets just say didn’t work. I am hoping by doing more and more rides he gets over this which I’m sure he will as he started his first show season this year with the same excitement and is now for the most part an ‘old pro’ :winkgrin:
So while I am definately working on the too forward issue at the rides I want a bit to help keep him sane and more importantly happy in the mouth until he calms down.
(he currently trail rides in a french link)
Sure sounds like you’re on the right track …
<< am hoping by doing more and more rides he gets over this which I’m sure he will as he started his first show season this year with the same excitement and is now for the most part an ‘old pro’ >>
Absolutely. The old “wet saddle blanket fix” cures many ills.
A couple of more comments from me, what a suprise!
I switched from the Little S hackamore to the “English” style hackamore for a couple of reasons.
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The Little S is designed so that you can’t change the type of curb chain/strap that you use on it. http://www.rods.com/p/7218,237_Leather-Nose-Little-S-Hackamore.html Well, maybe you would be able to get the hooks for an english type curb chain on it. But I found that the sort of twisted chain that comes with it sit’s too high on the horses jaw, where there is a lot of bone with just skin over it and my horses got holes rubbed by that chain in their skin. And I prefer to have a flat padded noseband, which you can finally get from a couple of endurance tack vendors.
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The english type hackamore has a wide flat curb chain that hags lower on the horses jaw so it sits in the groove just above the horses chin. A bit more flesh over the bones in the spot and my horses seem more comfortable with it. I found that the wide flat chain never rubs holes on even the freshest horse. http://www.highermark.com/t-hbh.html shows a hackamore which sits a little too low in my opinion but shows the type I use. but I change out the curb strap for the hooks and chain which hags downward into the chin groove.
Riding fast: I’m not talking about racing during a ride, I’m talking about you and your horse being comfortable with speed. IMO most people who fall off a galloping horse have caused themselves to fall off. I don’t mean this to sound judgemental. As an ex riding instructor and a person with experience galloping race horses I’ve had experience with speed and dealt with or watched the average person who hasn’t. In reality, it’s no harder to stay on a horse who’s going fast, but most people fear the speed, never practice it, and they stiffen up, contract their legs, raise their heels, loose their stirrups and curl into a fetal position before having a close-up conversation with dirt.
In fact a lot of people are scared of cantering, forget galloping. You need to learn to ride at all gaits and to deal with body and mind control at all of them. Practice, practice, practice!!! Then you won’t do the wrong thing if a horse get strong or bolts.
Also, so many horses are never allowed to go fast with a rider on board. I think this constant restraint can really cause a build up of silliness and a real explosion when they finally get to cut loose. I like to practice galloping in company with other riders, so my horse learns that it’s a normal part of riding and nothing to get excited about.
One more pet peeve. Sooo many riders will only canter up hill, because it’s mentally more comfortable to them. They end up training their horses to plunge or bolt up hills. I’ve been on so many endurance rides where riders around me take off at a gallop when they reach an uphill on a road. Helloooooooo!!! Do you know how much more effort it takes your horse to gallop up a long hill? Then they get to the top and have a winded horse, and now, the road or trail is level or gently sloping down and there they are walking or slowly trotting that puffing horse. Slow down on the uphills and use the flats and downhills to make up time. This is during a ride. during training it’s a different deal.
Wasn’t this a thread about bits? Hah! I’m off my soap box.
chicamuxen
I have found that my Arabian loves to canter or gallop hills. When I make her walk up them, she stumbles, slips, and acts like an idiot. So I just give her her head, get off her back, and let her get up it, and she drops right back to a walk at the top of the hill. So yes, she gets to gallop hills whenever appropriate, but no, she’s not out of control and spoiled. It’s just the way we train, and the way we tackle the trail. I think most endurance riders canter or gallop the hills because it’s actually easier for the horse.
No, I’m not talking about galloping up cougar rock or anything, obviously. There are times that the going is so steep and so tough that you literally walk and pick your way through any way you can get up.
when i did endurance and for most trail riding, i use one of those kincaide hackamores
the comment about speed is interesting, i found i was afraid of the speed but got to realize, my horse was only going a little faster than my comfort level, it took some tranining on my part to not let speed escalate into out of control because i rolled up in a ball, so learning to stay balanced myself at speed went a long way to being able to deal with bit issues, deciding was it me afraid of speed or the actual bit was not working for the horse
Yep, I was definitely afraid of riding at speed for a lot of years. My first pony used to run away with me every chance she got until I learned to sit back and turn her in a circle. She had a nice way of striding left then right then left to unseat me if I managed to hang on through the first bolt, so the trick was to catch her right away.
That left me with a fear of speed. Oddly enough, riding OTTB’s has cured me of this fear. They are professionals at galloping. The speed Butch and I “gallop” is actually considered a “canter” by race horse people. It is a ground-eating pace that my horse finds easy to maintain, and he often cools down much faster after a long hand-gallop than he would if we had trotted the same distance.
Strategy for us will be to intersperse trotting with hand-galloping to keep him interested and working at his most efficient. I don’t care about winning–I just want to complete.
He is easy to control unless there are other horses going full speed. I think his mind goes from “workout mode” to “race mode”, and I lose control. So bitting is an important issue until he realizes that he won’t be racing, even short distances, anymore. My biggest worry when he goes full speed is the footing: hummocks, holes, and slippery spots. That is a valid concern out there, especially when my horse gets too excited to watch his footing.
I’ll be trying another LD ride this fall, so we’ll see how the curb bit works. I’ve still got the gag bit idea in the back of my head. One thing at a time…
Thanks everybody for contributing to this thread. It’s been informative, even though I didn’t start it and ask the question! Kudos to you all. This is a great forum.
I don’t have a problem riding at speed …
… on a horse with a good base and the sense to know the difference between racing and traveling down the trail at a good clip and under control.
I’ve seen far too many riders new to our sport concerned with speed when what they should first be concerned about is completing.
They end up with out of control horses and are lucky if they can steer around the course as their wild-eyed horse pulls on them and fights with them to be upfront.
Maybe I’m the only one who sees that sort of thing.
But to me, telling folks to get a bigger bit and suggesting that they “practice at speed” is a message that makes me a little nervous.
Make haste slowly.
–Patti
When I rode in endurance trials, I used the same simple regular, old fashioned, not those later ones with the fat mouth, D ring snaffle we used to train and go on trail rides.
Horses didn’t seem to ride any different in endurance then any other time.
I wonder if it is in the training, or somehow today’s endurance rides are that much different than ours used to be?
What breed and age was your horse? And how much endurance riding experience did the horse have? It seems to me that it’s the young, inexperienced Arabians that get the hottest on the trail. The seasoned competitors know their bag and do it with the least amount of expended effort. My Arab is starting to settle in a little to the pace now because she knows that when I get on, we’re going for a few hours so she might as well get down to business. There’s a long way to go yet, but I think it takes years to develop a good endurance mount.
This is such a great point Patti. This is my first endurance season and I am practing LSD (long slow distances) right now. My goal is to get down the trail safely, happily, and in a reasonable time. I let my mare canter or gallop, but she’s easy to control and smart. But right now I’m most concerned with developing good skills and muscle/wind and we’ll worry about speed in the years to come. 
I find this interesting. The last CTR I completed (in 1983 :eek:) I rode my wonderful half-Arab mare. I had thoroughly conditioned her with LSD work, some cantering, and lots of walking. She was so pokey when I rode her for conditioning that I thought I might need spurs on the day of the ride just to make it in under the time limit. I went with two other people, and the idea was that we would ride together and have fun. I rode in a full-cheek snaffle, the same as I showed the mare in (mostly hunter equitation and pleasure classes, jumping up to 3’6").
The day of the ride, I saw my friends at the very beginning, briefly at lunch, and much later as I waited for them to finish. My mare was a speed demon and wanted to follow the fastest (dark colored) horses she could find. She took off after an Arabian that was schooling for a 100 mile ride, and we went much, much faster than I had expected. I had no brakes and little steering. That was my first time cantering down a steep hill, and I had to fight the urge to close my eyes. :winkgrin: This was my darling show mare that won plenty of championships and had taken me many, many miles along the roads and through the fields at home.
Finally, we came upon some early starters on a narrow part of the trail, and I was able to jam my mare behind one of those horses (I asked permission as we were charging up to them). Those ladies were so nice and patient with me and my mare. For a while we found a similar sized horse of the right color (my horse preferred dark chestnuts, bless her heart), and we went at a reasonable clip for quite a while, until Babe spotted another dark horse farther up the trail.
We galloped across the finish line, just making it over the fastest time allowed with no penalty points.
I was one shocked person and had not expected my mare to be so hot-blooded on the trail, since she had never shown signs of this before. I guess it was the excitement of the day and being around so many horses going the same direction. This is the same mare I could always count on to be level headed in tough situations, stand solid as a truck let off its air brakes, and pony other horses from during the training process.
My long-winded point is that well conditioned, well trained horses can still get their blood up on competition day. All it takes is to be surrounded by other excited horses and riders. The novice horse does not know what to expect, and it is important for the rider to be prepared for a horse that is harder than usual to handle.
I had that mare for 22 years, and I still miss her.
p.s. I also think it is important to do some training at speed, so that one can stay with the horse and bring him back to a slower speed as needed. If a rider isn’t comfortable with a galloping horse, he/she may need more riding instruction before attending a competetive ride. Horses sometimes run when we don’t expect them to, and it is an accident waiting to happen if the rider can’t stay with the horse and learn how to bring him back under control during an unexpected gallop.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;2653469]
What breed and age was your horse? And how much endurance riding experience did the horse have? It seems to me that it’s the young, inexperienced Arabians that get the hottest on the trail. The seasoned competitors know their bag and do it with the least amount of expended effort. My Arab is starting to settle in a little to the pace now because she knows that when I get on, we’re going for a few hours so she might as well get down to business. There’s a long way to go yet, but I think it takes years to develop a good endurance mount.[/QUOTE]
I was riding a 16+ hand standardbred trotting mare, that had been pulling a buggy with tourists for several years in the streets, then was sold to the slaughterhouse, where our riding school bought many of our horses and the manager called us on her.
We used her to guide trail rides most days of the week and when not, I took her for some conditioning in the hills alone, all that for some months.
We participated in two 200 km rides in two days, one year apart.
She rode the same any place she was, trail riding or in the endurance trials.
No, my suggestion is that the rider learn to not be scared of galloping so that they don’t become a danger to themselves and fall off. Several years ago at a local CTR a bolting loose horse careened into two riders on a narrow trail and knocked both horses to the ground. Both riders were medivaced out. Loose horses can be dangerous.
I’m not advocating competing at speed, I’m advocating both horse and rider being relaxed and balanced at all gaits. Cantering and galloping shouldn’t be frightening or exciting, it should be part of the repertoir of horse and rider. I’ve seen riders basicly pitch themselves to the ground in a small arena because the horse starts cantering, the rider stiffens every inch of their body freaking the poor horse out who starts running faster and faster and the rider literally falls off from fear and stiffness.
It’s about learning to be a good rider and continueing to improve your riding skills. When we hit the trails we often quit taking lessons and focus only on conditioning the horse. I agree that I see a lot of riders on the trail that basicly have pretty poor riding skills. We need to keep on learning and getting better. But learn to deal with all the gaits and practice what to do about a bolt or puller ahead of time. Learn a one rein stop and teach it to your horse, practice it regularly, use it as a tool, push your comfort envelope. Take lessons too but take them from the right sort of instructor.
chicamuxen
Point well taken …
… particularly regarding the lessons and really learning to ride in all three gaits.
Absolutely learn to ride the canter and gallop, just don’t have your horse thinking that getting out there and racing is the name of the game.
–Patti self-confessed control freak
Patti- my problem is I love going fast! Nothing like a good rip and tear! But Mouse just isn’t that type of horse. Now he’s very balanced and we can weave thru trees and go down hill at a darn good pace but he just doesn’t have a racing bone in his body. I need me one of those Russian race horses! Mouse actually slows himself on uphills and extends on the downhills. He walks when he’s tired then goes back to a trot when he’s rested. He’d make a wonderful kid’s horse now. And my four year old that has several very nice race horses in his pedigree is the laziest, slowest, western pleasure type Arab you’ve ever seen! Of course my husband adores him because he’s a lap pony.
I need me a race horse!
chicamuxen
[QUOTE=patti;2651419]
The old “wet saddle blanket fix” cures many ills.[/QUOTE]
Oh yes!
I think most endurance riders canter or gallop the hills because it’s actually easier for the horse.
Most don’t gallop or canter hills even in their training, why, becuase its a great way to cause strains and its not bilaterally even work.
While it may work for you, I personally (nor would my trainer) use it as conditioning work.
People can do whatever they want, and what works for their horses. My horses always want to get up the hills quicker rather than slower. I do a lot of conditioning work myself (running and walking) and it is much easier for me to jog up hills than to walk them. The strain on my legs feels much greater, the slower the pace. This is my first endurance season, but I’ve not yet seen riders walking up long hills. Obviously if the footing is bad and very steep, then you have to walk. But generally I’ve noticed them maintaining the speed they’re already traveling at.
