What could be the cause of this odd grooming behavior?

[spurofthemoment]

Here’s the situation:

Young OTTB. Happy-go-lucky, laid back. Eats well. Keeps weight on well. Not hot. Great on adventures alone or with a group. Not girthy. Has had moments of “park and won’t move” and “exploding after a jump” that I can count (meaning that it doesn’t happen often and hasn’t happened in a while). No vices other than he can be a pain to lead (will park and let you pull on him before moving), and will get creative in order to obtain food (not sure if we count this as a vice). He also does not love fly spray and he tolerates baths/getting hosed down.

He regularly will paw once or twice on the crossties when at the very beginning of grooming, to which I say “Heeeyyy!” (No hitting, just a verbal “what the heck, dude?!”). He’ll stop and won’t do it again. He can be left alone to stand on the crossties.

BUT! This weird thing happened: Before I curried him, I shortened his mane (I do the thinning knife trick instead of pulling since he tolerates it much better). He didn’t paw or anything. He was the perfect gentleman. THEN I brought out the curry comb. THEN he pawed.

He’s always kind of swished his tail at me when brushing his belly, particularly the underside, even with a softer brush.

Now, here’s the million dollar question: why does this happen?

A. Is it ulcers?
B. Do I need a different curry comb? (I use the round Oster comb with the flexible rubber teeth veeeeerrrrry gently)
C. Is it a weird quirk/habit?
D. Is he testing me?
E. Is it something else?

We all want to do right by our horses. I’d hate to be causing him pain while he’s VERY gently and kindly trying to say something to me with the pawing behavior. Not many other horses I know are that nice about it.

[Foxglove]

I’d try softer combs and brushes. Or he might be delighted and over joyed and the pawing is manifesting that anticipation. I have a paw-er. He paws most vigorously as I am in the feed room preparing his chow. Clearly this is something he enjoys. He used to paw while I was saddling (he loves to GO any place --huge brain, great work ethic) but we cleared that up for the most part with clicker training which again, he loved as it engages his giant brain. No paw -click! Treat. And gradual spacing out of the treat after the click until he’s generally satisfied with the click.

[spurofthemoment]

The clicker training sounds so fascinating!

Obviously the easiest fix to try first is a different/softer brush. I just like the curry so I can really stimulate his skin. But if a Tiger’s Tongue is all he can handle, then I can do that, too.

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

My gelding will start pawing if he has to pee…just a thought!

[BrownDerby]

I knew one who would air paw in the cross ties or at the hitching rail while waiting for his grain. He knew not to paw the ground so he’d lift his foot and do a little hokey-pokey circle in the air. Anticipatory, happy, not stressed or antsy.

[Bonnie2]

My 15yo ottb, that I’ve had since he left the track, hates to be curried. He’ll stand quietly for a cold hose on a cold day and he is the only horse I will wash rather than curry. I wouldn’t overly worry about it but pay attention to see if it gets worse. Use the softest brush you have and curry only if absolutely necessary. And keep your antenna up and stay safe!

[punchy]

Reiterating what others have said. Some horses just don’t like to be curried. They may be thin skinned or just sensitive. Others paw because they get excited when they are curried. My current horse paws when I do massage and then starts yawning, so for him it’s an outlet for expressing his pleasure and release. I’d guess, since your guy does it when you curry his belly, he just doesn’t like it. I’ve met more who don’t like a belly curry than those who do.

[2DogsFarm]

I wouldn’t leap to ulcers.
A lot of bad manners are tolerated at the track in the name of “spirit”.
I was a guest at a Derby party held by the trainer I bought my guy from & another guest showed up with her hand bandaged.
Proudly explained her filly in training had bitten her finger off & that showed the above-mentioned desired trait

My OTTB Washout (never raced, but ponied for the trainer) hated grooming.
Even the softest facebrush got me pinned ears & a show of teeth.
We settled the teeth: they could be pointed anywhere but at me.
I had him 20yrs & only in the last 5 did he tolerate being groomed & make any nuzzly gestures.
The last seemed to surprise us both.

His Coulda Been a Contender photo:

[spurofthemoment]

My guy definitely ticks the athletic box, but he lacks that “spirit”/“killer instinct” you mention about the filly - I was shocked to see in his track photos that he was being handled with a chain in his mouth because never have I felt that he was impossible to control. He won a single race in 5-race career. I’m not sure why he was retired, but I suspect it’s the “spirit”

[spurofthemoment]

All these replies are making me feel better! I’ve never had a young horse before, and all my “finished” horses came to me with their “known” quirks. I’m still trying to figure this one out. I know it doesn’t take a rocket scientist but I just wanna do right by him.

[2DogsFarm]

My guy never even earned the tattoo
But he showed talent O/F, so I got him as a barely started Hunter at 6.
Seller told me he won a PreGreen class in KY when their string was there.
We’re still in touch, she recently retired from training at Gulfstream.

I’m sure he thought he was a World-beater on the gallops we took, but his 2yo times said otherwise

[Tha_Ridge]

The vast majority of TBs I’ve known hate being curried. It’s not an odd behavior, it’s an “I’m anxious and don’t love what you’re about to do” behavior, IMO.

[skydy]

Instead of currying, rub him as tolerated with cactus cloth or plain towels. Then, soft brushes.

I groomed one that hated the curry but I was able to get him used to a towel rub, brushes, and a shop vac. Once he got over the initial fear of the vacuum he really enjoyed it. Just experiment and find what works. Don’t curry him if he hates it.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

Agree that currying when they are sensitive might just be too much for him.

That said, even my hesitant ones love the HAAS curry. So perhaps worth a $6 experiment so you can report back and tell us if that made a difference?

[dmveventer]

The only symptom you’ve listed that I’d be somewhat concerned about is the parking and refusing to move. You say it’s happened on the ground and under saddle, if it’s happening enough for you to mention here I’d probably try to chase that one down a bit. A young horse refusing to move for no apparent reason is more concerning to me than fidgeting during grooming, but there are still plenty of explanations that don’t necessarily mean your horse is in pain.

I wouldn’t really be concerned about the pawing as long as it doesn’t escalate, a lot of TBs don’t love being curried. The fact that he stood still while you thinned his mane doesn’t say much since thinning is pretty gentle, there’s not much for them to react to.

[Tha_Ridge]

Agree that the Haas curry is fantastic!

[spurofthemoment]

Fun story: I groomed yesterday, starting with a soft brush just to see. No pawing. I got the Tiger’s Tongue out to buff out the grosser parts on him.

There was some activity outside the barn that he could see and hear from the crossties, so maybe he was distracted? I’ll repeat the process.

[spurofthemoment]

I really want some Haas brushes in general so this is the perfect excuse! People have said they can tell the difference!

[spurofthemoment]

The parking only happens on the ground now, so I don’t know if it’s lack of ground manners OR he’s doing the “I’m anxious and don’t want to do this” reaction another poster mentioned. I’m so used to horses being flighty as an anxiety response but his biggest spook to date has been a tiny jump in place as a reaction to something in the woods. Maybe he’s got a different way or communicating.

When he did it under saddle, he was at a different, much larger and louder/busy facility. He’s never done it at a show, though. One notable time months ago, I was wearing some rubber roller spurs. He clearly told me he didn’t like them by parking, so I took them off and all was well. However, something must have changed because I gave him some time and now he doesn’t mind/responds to them appropriately. They’ve been a super effective aid in our flatwork training lately.

[Paint_Party]

@BrownDerby

I knew one who would air paw in the cross ties or at the hitching rail while waiting for his grain.

I had an OTTB mare years ago who would do the same thing. She’d do the air paw in her stall when she knew I was feeding, sometimes when she first started eating. It wasn’t like striking or anything menacing. Just a lift of one front leg and ever so delicately allowing it to hover and circle in anticipation.

I got her from the TB farm, and they said she’d done that since a yearling and even did it when at the track, racing.

(Edited because I accidentally typed “foal” when I meant “yearling.” Too much mulled wine last night).