What do horse colleges and "equine studies" actually teach?

There are many more Small Business/Entrepreneur degree programs offered in business schools across the country than there were 20 years ago when I started my general business MBA program.

In my opinion, it would be super beneficial to many aspiring professionals in the industry to have a degree program that focused more on the ‘small business’ aspects of running a boarding barn, lesson barn, etc. Covering topics like maintaining your own books, managing cash flow, the bare basics of contracts (which could apply to boarding or leasing horses), the bare basics of employment law (salaried vs hourly vs independent contractors), information about insurance and liability concerns to be mindful of when operating any equestrian related business, and maybe the basics of marketing a small business (strategies for targeting a specific market segment, brand awareness, etc).

Some folks have mentioned that on these forums before that certain Equine studies programs do go into these small business management details… and that seems positive. But from what others say, some programs are more focused on actual horsemanship skills. I would think generalized small business management skills would be a much better value proposition for the student, and potentially useful in a broader variety of future career situations.

4 Likes

I have met people like this. Their “BS Equine Studies” is more accurately defined via an alternate interpretation of the acronym, vs the last two words in that diploma name…

8 Likes

General thoughts

Riding and horsemanship is a sport or art, it takes early skill development and lifelong development, and some talent.

The people who become competent trainers or competitive riders generally have early success and are promising as teens. This is also the case with most athletes and most forms of art. It is rare that someone takes up a musical instrument at 19 and becomes a pro musician, or starts tennis and goes pro.

Colleges run arts music and creative writing courses. Some college programs are highly selective and you need to audition or submit a portfolio. Some are general interest and aim really to create “appreciation.” None guarantee you will become a professional artist. The arts and sports have a wide base of beginners amateurs and hopefuls, but a very narrow pyramid up to professional.

On the other hand, for most professions it’s reasonable to expect that you go in knowing little, you get thoroughly trained, and you come out into a job market with pretty much guaranteed job opportunities at some level, barring economic recessions etc. Teacher, nurse, lawyer, doctor, accountant, pharmacist, veterinarian, etc. There are prerequisites but you don’t need to show early talent with teeth to become a good dentist.

You can’t teach arts or sports this systematically.

So some recreational rider teen who missed out on good opportunities as a kid might think they can enrol in an Equine Studies course and learn horsemanship same as they’d learn nursing or book keeping, from the ground up. But it doesn’t work that way.

So the true business courses are valuable to someone who already has the skillset to realistically grow into an adult pro in their 20s. The animal science courses are valuable for people in agriculture for breeding, nutrition, reproduction etc.

But the kids already on a strong competitive track are likely off competing, not taking basic equine courses.

Obviously lots of people who are essentially adult ammies end up running smaller boarding operations with varying degrees of success. For most easy care horses the most important thing is consistency and doing the work day in and out. And some adult ammies reinvent themselves as niche groundwork or clicker trainers, with usually not much business. So the ammie/pro boundary is porous at the lower levels.

3 Likes

The 4-year university programs are not necessarily intended for professional riders, especially for circuit pros who win top national championships. The programs that I’m most familiar with are more designed for people who need background and credentials to enter the horse industry in more corporate roles, such as feed sales or even vet clinic management.

Another thought …

For someone interested in barn management and a hands-on horse career, in addition to the mentorship route, consider training and working as a vet tech. There is so much more exposure and guided knowledge to the essential & most complex part of horse management. Horse management needs some basic to intermediate skills in caring for ill and/or injured horses.

One of the most successful pro trainers I know created her own ‘education’ path that included training and working for 2+ years as a vet tech. She is not only an outstanding rider, trainer and instructor, she is also the person you want in charge of your horse’s health and welfare, especially if something is going wrong with your horse.

Also, not for nothing: Being a great pro trainer/rider does NOT mean that person is also a great barn manager – or even a great horse handler. I know a working student of an Olympic rider who quickly realized that she needed to take over barn management entirely and bring order out of chaos. After a phone call or two to previous working students of this pro, she learned that this was par for the course in his barn. He is a great teacher of riding and a gifted rider, but organization of horse care is not where his brain cells are concentrated. There are other top pro rider/trainers who also need the help of a top barn manager. If looking to learn as a working student, make sure you know what you are signing up for. Not so unusual. In other sports the best players/athletes don’t also run the team, a management pro is hired for that.

3 Likes

CF here in OCala has both an AA and a BS program. Very comprehensive, but of course the student only gets out of it what s/he puts in. Friends are instructors; they complain the students lack work ethic.

1 Like

A fair number of graduates go into industry or academia.

Also, it’s pretty common to see people with equine science degrees in leadership positions such as school riding programs, camps, or anything “public” where credentials matter for optics, liability, or both.

I am 100% supportive of post-secondary education. I have mixed feelings on equine science degrees because there are a lot of useless ones out there. But there are also solid programs that prepare people for agribusiness with an emphasis on horses. Overall, I’d someone’s goal is to be a trainer, I would never recommend an equine science degree. However, I would totally recommend an education to fall back on. It is easy enough to gain work experience to help your future training career while attending college. It’s not a one or the other thing. If you want to work in the horse industry in a different capacity, an equine science degree at the right school may help you reach your goals.

See but that’s what gets them tagged as “useless” in the industry - they’re not designed for people going pro as trainers or instructors or even grooms, whether that’s “big national pro” or “runs a small barn and is modestly successful on a local circuit pro” and you don’t really NEED an equine studies degree otherwise to get a more corporate role in the industry, typically. Just some baseline knowledge of horses/the specific disciplines you may be dealing with and a relevant degree.

Yet it seems like the schools, at least that I’ve seen/heard about, brand the degrees as being for those interested in going into a hands-on role not a corporate one.

Like - okay, I interned in college at a PR firm that dealt exclusively with equestrians. I was not majoring in equine studies. When I graduated, I did freelance work as a writer (and not for like, unheard of blogs, entirely.) again, with no equine studies or similar degree but a degree in a writing-related field. I watched job ads on sites like American Horse Publications for those more “corporate” roles in the industry, b/c at one point I thought I might either want to take the writing up a notch past freelance or go into more of a marketing role w/in the industry, not once did I see any ads specify requiring a strong riding background, just basic horse knowledge (that definitely wasn’t written as “had to be acquired in college”) and a relevant degree to what the actual work entailed.

Don’t mean to come off as belittling or rude, but I’ve worked in the industry in some of those not-directly-hands-on roles relatively recently (as in, within the past 5 years) and I’m pretty sure someone who was even so much as willing to learn the basic terminology on the fly and had the relevant actual skills demanded by the role (e.g. marketing chops, social media chops, writing chops, whatever it is) would be just as able as anyone else to do it, it’s just the question is whether the equine businesses would take them on which would vary from company to company, I assume.

Therapeutic riding and other equine therapy, ultimately just seems to come down to whether you’ve got your PATH certification and the accompanying baseline knowledge. I know a woman who used to work at the therapeutic riding facility where I volunteer - she worked with the riders as basically an instructor. I’m pretty sure she didn’t go to college, she definitely wasn’t involved in horses until her own child, who is disabled, started equine therapy. Then she started taking an interest in horses, learning about them, etc. and went out and worked to get her PATH certification and began working as an instructor. And the person who owns that same facility went to college, yes, but studied something more general related to therapy (though they did have horses growing up and so on) and then discovered equine therapy while in college, pursued that (w/o specifically majoring in it) etc. So, even for that, you don’t need a specific equine therapy degree.

And as for the veterinary roles - those are better served obviously by their respective degrees.

Don’t take this wrongly I’m not saying the degrees are by any means useless completely, but that’s why I think they tend to get tagged as such - b/c they’re not really necessary, something more general can be substituted most of the time when they are necessary, and so many schools brand them as being great for aspiring instructors or what have you. Though as @texarkana says, I could definitely see them being better optics for certain situations.

1 Like

Here are three schools I could think of off the top of my head with equine programs - all are not science schools (I feel like the ag schools generally are a different beast) and are more small, private liberal arts schools:

(FYI I saw “equine communications” as an option at that one link above: you DEFINITELY don’t need a concentration in “equine communications” to be a journalist in the industry, I’ve been one and just have the horse knowledge, a willingness to interview anyone and everyone and ask questions, and a writing-related degree. You don’t even need a journalism/comms degree to be a journalist, it helps, but it’s kind of ironic sometimes how many actual journalists didn’t study journalism in college (obviously they often do learn their craft they just don’t major in it, per se). Like I follow a lot of journalism things on Twitter and it’s almost a meme to see working journalists tweeting to young people that they don’t need to go into potential crushing debt to study journalism just to work as one.)

All of these, from the brief glances I’ve taken, seem to tout that you’re going to get this degree and go into a job in the industry out of college and blah-blah and yes, you might, but again, it’s not like equine degrees are highly sought-after. Knowledge is, but a specific degree, no. I’m again, not passing judgment on the degrees themselves or their quality just saying they get tagged as useless a lot and I think it’s b/c there’s never been a need/demand for them and unless the entire horse industry changes dramatically there’s not going to be a need/demand.

EDIT: I’m gonna shut up before I talk too much about my time writing about horses. Just don’t want to chance being too readily ID’d. I’m not delusional, doubt anyone on here would recognize my work in the horse world, but I try not to touch on it too much and likely will stick to not discussing it a ton until I’ve completely moved on out of it, which I’ve not yet done. Not b/c I’m worried about being ID’d but b/c I like being able to get on my soapbox a bit more and generally don’t anywhere online that has my real name attached. :slight_smile:

Sorry for kind of monopolizing the thread a bit here but I stepped away then had some more thoughts:

  1. I do think the concept of some kind of more standardized system for lower-level trainers or instructors in the US is a good one, I just don’t know that a college degree in and of itself would be “standardized” (unless, say, I swear I’ve heard about this in the past: some colleges have done programs where you can get say, a British Horse Society certification).

  2. I think a lot of the more “corporate” roles in the industry benefit more from the people in them being, perhaps, horsey but not someone who specifically went to college and studied horses. I see WAY TOO MANY people who immerse themselves in horses (not always pro riders/trainers) and don’t always see the bigger world outside of that or that it has higher standards of certain fields than perhaps what the equestrian world version has.

  3. Again, emphasizing, I don’t think the equine degrees are useless as much as there’s not a specific need for a specialization in a lot of aspects of the industry b/c either college period isn’t needed for being a trainer/groom/instructor or b/c you can usually get by with a relevant degree and basic equine knowledge in the more corporate roles. It feels almost like perhaps the equine degrees were created to solve an issue that never really existed in the first place (that or to make the colleges money of off fleets of well-to-do horse crazed 18 YO girls with no understanding that this degree isn’t going to land them their dream job upon graduation, says the more cynical side of me. :stuck_out_tongue: )

Yup.

Honestly, looking at what you linked, and the related descriptions… it seems akin to a lot of the marketing that goes along with mid tier colleges and universities these days with all sorts of degree programs.

When I got my MBA years ago… there was a lot of ridiculous marketing from the University I attended at the time talking about how it was a path to Corporate management. It wasn’t. Experience was the path to a management position, as well as hard work and a lot of networking and luck. The MBA did help me in terms of getting into a better job at a good consulting firm, after I completed the degree program… but again… my actual work experience was also key.

Fortunately for me, I was able to complete my advanced degree on a tight budget, at a really good local public university, while working full time (they offered night classes), and I graduated with zero debt.

When I look at these equine studies degree programs… I wonder about the total cost. I also wonder if kids are going into debt to get these degrees. That concerns me. I wonder if people realize they will still need actual work experience to land many jobs. I wonder if they realize how brutal the economics of the horse industry are… and how low paying entry level jobs are.

In all fairness though, the issue of an unattractive ROI on some college degree programs in certain fields… it’s a problem that extends well beyond horses.

4 Likes

I agree the equine studies college programs don’t seem to add much value.

The science based courses via an Agriculture degree would be needed to be a nutritionist for a feed company, and Ag or Animal Sciences are well established disciplines that seem to be useful to the agricultural sector. But it’s not about riding and training. And my guess is you’d come out of an Ag degree with a broad spectrum of knowledge about crops and animals.

You are right that a journalism degree plus hobby interest in a field is enough to get you into working for a specialized publication as the deeper content is supplied by interviewing and research.

Here in Canada you need counselling credentials, I think a psych degree, or physical therapy, as appropriate, to run Equine Therapy. Obviously the helpers and volunteers don’t need to. Otherwise you can only call it Equine Assisted Learning.

I’ve never met a company feed sales Rep, we only have two local mills here, but I’d expect these days anyone with a regional or national level job would have college in marketing or animal sciences. Also probably you’d need to be fluent about cows and hogs and chickens as well as horses.

3 Likes

In the US it seems to depend - I don’t think the one instructor I knew had a degree per se but she def. had her PATH certification (which isn’t needed to merely volunteer in any capacity - I don’t have a PATH cert. and I help with lessons as a sidewalker for example) but at least when she started I don’t think she had a degree though that could’ve changed over time (e.g. might’ve gone back to school) and might be dependent on what, specifically your role is. I do know the person who owns and runs that entire business has a relevant-to-working-in-therapy degree plus PATH certification but I don’t know what exact field that degree is in as I don’t know a whole lot about that stuff from the degree-obtaining side of things, haha.

EDIT: Dunno the specifics into what each certification requires and enables one to do but here’s what’s on PATH’s website: https://www.pathintl.org/resources-education/certifications

I think there’s some college equine therapy programs where they incorporate getting your PATH cert. into their program.

Ah I see in the US you have a whole freestanding equine therapy accreditation agency. We don’t have that in Canada.

We do have an instructor accreditation program through Equine Canada which guarantees decent basics, but you need to get to that level by your own efforts. Also it’s not required to teach, but it reallyowers your insurance premiums.

Two questions seem to be discussed here - the initial thread title of what do equine studies actually teach, and then what degrees are helpful to get jobs in equine job fields. If a degree is needed at all. Two different answers, really.

I think a good point is being made that one does not need a specifically equine degree to get many equine-related jobs. Likely a good education in business, marketing or various sciences would be very useful. And expands the job market beyond equine.

There are a number of fields that hire college graduates with various & sundry degrees that are not in the specific job field. No doubt this is one of them.

Corporate salary jobs are likely to care more about the ability to understand and communicate about their products.

Having a heart for the animal and being able to talk about the customer’s situation or business will matter, of course, but as pointed out, you don’t need college classes for that.

The most successful feed rep I ever met, who has been doing it for over 25 years, can talk with insight about the horse psychology of feeding. It’s knowledge he has learned mostly from his customers’ experience. He’s always keenly interested in what his customers do and how it works for them. His college degree in ag science helped him get the job initially, but what has mattered is making the most of the job since then.

4 Likes

I worked for a private admissions consultant for more than twenty years. I’ve seen many changes in the college “industry,” but, in general, there are two basic reasons to go to college: 1. personal enrichment and growth and 2. to get a job–and a job that will make the investment of time and money in the degree worthwhile. The degree to which these two factors are important will vary with the personal circumstances of the person, but that’s what, crudely put, it boils down to, in most instances.

As we see in this thread, a big problem with equine degrees in the US is that there is no consistency between programs and in coursework, and even many relatively well-known programs don’t necessarily give students what they promise. A great deal of the stable and riding knowledge re: horses could probably be gotten just riding, even going to a school near a stable or with horses on the campus, and just participating in horses as an activity.

The science/liberal arts knowledge? Honestly, you’re better off taking basic biology, chemistry, writing and so forth.

Re: the job front, I’m saying this as someone who made plenty of mistakes with her own career, an equine studies degree is unlikely to get you a job in any industry outside of horses (and probably not even there), and even if some HR person is reviewing your resume for a horse-related company, a degree in finance or chemistry will look a helluva lot more impressive.

Never get an expensive degree like an MFA or Culinary Arts degree for a job that will likely pay sub-minimum wage. Get a regular degree, and then take a year to pursue your passion, if that’s what you’re interested in (freelancing or working). In fact, never get a pricey degree even for something practical like social work or library science at a fancy pants university, if you can possibly go to a less expensive state school.

8 Likes

Our feed rep, who has an equine studies degree from the university I mentioned upthread, is similar, albeit much younger. It’s a “people”-focused role where you’re not going to get very far if you cannot listen and apply customer experience to your recommendations and learning.

Anyway, in my personal experience, my interactions with horse pros who have a college degree (of some kind—not just equine) are often different from those who don’t. I’m not saying that a degree is a be-all, end-all (my husband doesn’t have one and is quite fine), but studying anything for those four years gives you a structure and work ethic that translates well to running a horse business, IMO. Now, if we can find a way not to make it $100k, that’d be great.

4 Likes

This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier when commenting about the ROI on these degrees.

It’s interesting… I’m seeing more and more universities tout “job placement” statistics as a marketing strategy in relation to various degree programs. And that can sound just great… except when you dig into the details. Do these job placements involve fill time positions with benefits? Or are they part time/contract/internship type positions? What is the average starting salary for a graduate of a particular degree program? Total cost of 4 a year degree for a given program, at that school? Etc etc etc.

These questions matter.

3 Likes

Part of the problem seems to be - and this is from my experience as a student at a private liberal arts college, albeit online and a few years ago.

A lot of these colleges still view a part, maybe not as big a share as in the past to be fair, but a part of their role in being creating well-rounded students as much as providing job training.

E.g. the college I attended had a HUGE social justice component that permeated everything which seemed rooted in the notion that its students were still upper-crust, sheltered, privileged white women (it used to be a women’s only college but started accepting men to the disappointment of a LOT of alumni on social media. I actually did a whole project for my PR course about how the school hadn’t handled the announcement well etc. (I don’t even think it was a bad thing) but there were people commenting on social media - I still remember some of these comments b/c I referenced them in my assignment, e.g. “how are we going to retrofit the campus to accommodate males” as if men are some completely different species :rofl: But - yet, I find myself thinking there’s how many of those same women going off about that on FB when it was announced who’d blow a gasket if men refer to women as “females” (not saying that’s right but, uh, double-standard much?)who needed to kind of learn that not everyone was as fortunate.

And, okay, I was…22 when I transferred there after wrapping up an associate’s degree in agriculture at a community college and 24 when I finished (started summer of '15 and completed the degree spring of '17, so approx a year and a half). So, I was perhaps going in with a bit different experience than, say, the typical naive little 18 year old who just toddled out of high school but even just seeing teenagers these days and some of the things they’re doing, yeaaaaah guys I don’t think they’re as sheltered from what’s going on in the world. And I’m kind of a mid-to-younger millennial and I wouldn’t consider my generation especially naive/sheltered about the state of the world. Just, seeing how much the dialogues around race and equality and poverty and so on have shifted, I don’t think anyone is as sheltered as past generations might’ve been.

The problem though is, don’t we also lose something by making college purely about job training? Especially if it’s too specialized given how people change careers way more today than in the past?

There’s a balance I just don’t know what it looks like and I imagine it looks different for each person depending on their goals. The bigger problem is the cost of higher education, ultimately.

In my experience this really only matters with technical certificates from reputable places. Thinking plumbers, electricians etc.

1 Like

Ohhhh… I understand your line of thinking, but I totally disagree. Job placement stats are in university marketing literature for various degree programs. Maybe not for Top 100 schools, but it’s all over the place now when you look at major universities and colleges, and try and evaluate whether their various degree programs are ‘worth it.’

Job placement statistics are a big deal with business related degrees, and actually… they played a role in university selection with one of my nieces who is a mech engineering major.

Two of my cousins attended Babson college in New England a little over a decade ago… and they routinely talked about how Babson’s job placement stats made it an AWESOME choice for business school. But both cousins chose business degree tracks related to entrepreneurship and marketing degrees… but upon graduation could only find low end, commission based sales jobs, that required ridiculous travel. Tuition at Babson was almost $50 k per year…not including room, board and books. Lucky for both cousins, their parents paid their bills and they had no loans… but was it wise to spend over $200k on a business degree to get a traveling sales gig, with commission based compensation and limited benefits? I don’t think so. You can get business/marketing degrees from many state schools for a fraction of that cost.

Another example… my two nieces who are both currently in their sophomore year and pursuing engineering degrees. One is a double major in Computer Science and biomedical engineering (she’s a brainiac). She got scholarship offers from some GREAT schools… including Columbia, RPI, and Carnegie Mellon. But none were full rides, and when she factored in books, living, partial tuition, she was still going to have to pay close to $30k per year. And take out loans to do it. So that would have been $120k in debt after 4 years. Her state flagship school gave her a full ride offer, plus money for books, living, etc. And they had an honors program. So she chose to go that route, and will graduate 100% debt free. Neither Columbia, nor her state university engaged in marketing tactics with respect to job placement stats… the inherent value of either/or was pretty obvious at first glance - a prestigious Ivy League alma mater vs. an economic but solid degree program from a public university.

By contrast, my other niece, who was a top notch high school athlete, REALLY wanted to play women’s lacrosse in college, while also pursue an engineering degree. She ended up looking at a variety of mid-tier private colleges and universities with D3 programs, most in the mid Atlantic and North East. She eventually chose to accept an offer from Clarkson University… which is a great school. But private. And not exceptionally well known, or super prestigious. However, Clarkson markets the heck out of their full time job placement statistics for graduates (apparently it was 97% in 2020). So, that was the major factor in my niece choosing that school… she knew she was going to take out loans to go to a private school and play college lacrosse, and so she wanted good employment chances upon graduation. But it’s over $50 k per year in tuition alone to attend that school, and she’s taking out big loans to do it. She will have over $200k in student loan debt upon graduation. Call me crazy… but perhaps she would have been better off playing club lacrosse while in college, and attending the state flagship school (which is still quite good) for a FRACTION of the cost, and graduating with only about $50k in student loan debt, vs. $200k. I seriously doubt that Clarkson will get her that much better of a job placement chance. than her state university might have if she just did their mech engineering program instead…

Anyway… just trying to provide concrete examples of how these expensive, mid tier private schools are trying to market to potential students by using job placement stats. It often seems to me like it’s an attempt to convince people to pay exorbitant tuition for various degrees… instead of choosing other options (like in state public universities) that would provide a better ROI).

These equine science/equine studies degree programs? Well, some of the programs linked earlier in this thread were for smaller private schools, and seemed to be mentioning job placement stats. It’s just more of the same general marketing strategy, in my opinion, to try and justify the pricey tuition.

1 Like