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What do these symptoms point to?

Horse Care
#1

Coming 8 year old gelding exhibits the following:

Not willing to work over his back so well
Less swinging through the back
Appears sore on back (mid-lower back muscles)
Left lead is more “sticky”
Kicks out at the canter - especially to left, but now both.
Does not want to go forward at the canter
Worse when ridden (different riders)
Kicks out less on lunge
Occasionally swaps leads/cross canters on the longe
Picks up right hind and “snatches it away” then relaxes and lowers when picking out hooves.

What would these observations lead you too? Stifles, or hocks?

His saddle was just fit again, and I don’t see that as the issue. We will address feet but the angles, especially on his hind feet are correct and in good condition.

There are some symptoms that appear only when lunging and some only under saddle as seen above.

His workload has increased, hill work is becoming more frequent, but his workload has variety, and I don’t think it is too much, but perhaps could be backed off slightly.

I have a great vet that is also a chiropractor coming out within the next two weeks, so that has given me time to speculate. :winkgrin:

#2

It sounds like your horse does see the saddle as part of the issue. I think the chiro is a good place to start. Does using a different saddle pad make any difference?

The symptoms you describe often coincide with a saddle being to long, or pressing into the horse’s lower back/loin.

2 Likes
#3

I have used a mattes pad, a plain square pad, and a ultra thinline with the square pad, and all yield the same result. I have ridden him in both a jump saddle and dressage saddle recently, and the problems exist with both saddles. The saddle is not too long based on the location of the last rib, and where the back of the saddle is on his back. The dressage saddle is not as long as the jump saddle, but it doesn’t make a difference. I tried a little time off/no under saddle work, but that didn’t produce any significant improvements or results.

So that leads me to think it is not the saddle(s). However, I will have them assessed again as part of his workup by the vet/chiro. Our local osteopathie is also a great resource when it comes to assessing saddle fit. He’s just a town over, so I will probably get his input as well.

#4

SI?

4 Likes
#5

Your vet will know more where to go after a basic examination.

I would say, start with hocks with that history.
The bunny hopping and swapping leads generally happens with a sore hock.

Following the less common with that clinical picture, also check SI and front feet.

Some times, it is more than one cause that ends up with a resistant horse here and there.

3 Likes
#6

Oh, yes, SI is something I’ve considered as well.

Based on what I think it most likely (in order) is hocks, stifles, SI, saddle, feet.

It could be a combination, or something outside of that list.

In the meantime I’m not sure what to do with him? He still gets turnout, and maybe some handwalks?

#7

I would go in the order of hocks, front feet (is he shod?), then SI

#8

My 19 year old OTTB has been showing somewhat similar symptoms – sore back in loin area, doesn’t want to hold left lead canter, etc. The only other thing I’m seeing that you did not mention was behavioral changes. He is very grumpy and resistant to being touched.

First diagnosed as SI, which made sense. Had the SI injected and saw no change in behavior. Currently treating for Lyme while waiting for Titers to come back. He was tested before the injection and did not show an active infection.

Not sure where in the country you are (new COTH doesn’t show location on my screen) but you might want to consider testing.

#9

Lyme is very uncommon in Germany, so that would be really low on my list. This horse, I don’t think I’ve even seen him truly grumpy. He’s displeased about cantering and expresses that it kicking out. When I curry part of his mid back, he will just try to move away slightly (step over, back, or forward). His general disposition hasn’t changed.

He is shod in the front. I have a feeling it is not foot related, but it will be looked into.

#10

You basically described my horse. I started with Pentosan after a diagnosis of hocks. That helped tremendously but not completely. Just did hock injections two weeks ago tomorrow for the first time. He is much happier but still not completely there. The vet thinks there is also some SI and a right front issue. I am hoping the SI will correct itself with his hocks feeling better (hocks causing SI issue hopefully). I think my next step is to investigate RF.

He does see chiro which has only quasi helped. I think the next appointment will help more now that he is much happier behind.

So if it were me I would start with vet and look at the hocks first.

ETA: my horse had lyme last year so I was nervous it was back because his unwillingness to be groomed. That apparently is just the static with his winter coat. Taking the blanket off is the worst part of his day right now. Next year he is clipped!

1 Like
#11

check to see if ribs and lower back are out, saddle fit and possibly ulcers or sour stomach

#12

Will he back up willingly? What is his breed? Sounds a lot like my mare who has PSSM2. PSSM/EPSM is commonly found in heavily muscled breeds like quarter horses, drafts, and draft crosses, but can be found in other breeds as well. You can test for PSSM1 with a dna hair sample sent to animal genetics. PSSM2 can only be found with a muscle biopsy as far as I know.

As far as his age my mare didn’t start showing symptoms until she was 8 years old. I had another mare I suspect had PSSM1 ( her foal carries 1 copy of it) She never had any symptoms and just dropped dead at 6 years old (had just started being introduced to fall grass) I didn’t know about the disease before she passed away. Best mare ever, truly heart broken about her!

Good news is, that if if is PSSM it can be managed with diet and exercise. The hair sample test is only $30 or $40 or you can get a 5 panel for $90 if you want. The owners before me had the muscle biopsy so not sure how much that runs.

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#13

So many things these symptoms can point to - sore feet, sore hocks, sore SI, Lyme, EPM, EPSM/PSSM, saddle fit, Vitamin E and/or Se levels low (especially if this is happening now after a Winter of hay-only, which has basically no Vit E), saddle fit issues (even if the current saddle fits well, previous fit may have caused longer-lasting issues), to just needing chiropractic and/or massage work.

1 Like
#14

IME it’s quite common for an initial problem in one part of the body to lead to secondary problems elsewhere. The hocks are sore, and this leads to the SI being sore. The hooves are unbalanced and this leads to the hocks being sore. The pelvis is out of alignment and this leads to the back being sore under the saddle, but not because of saddle fit. Once you fix one thing (like getting the hocks injected), that makes the pain elsewhere more visible, whether it is referred pain or causal problem, So if you get a cure or procedure done, and the horse is still NQR, it might not be that you fixed the wrong part, but that there are more problems radiating out from that initial problem, that are only now visible.

I certainly see this in myself, where an injury in one part of my body causes problems elsewhere. Broken wrist leads to frozen shoulder because of six weeks immobility in cast. Back pain migrates around between massage appointments. etc.

4 Likes
#15

Yes, that is part of the puzzle, it could be so many things! I am very curious as to what it will be. The vet will come next Thursday. She comes from the next country over (about an hour away), but it is the best vet around this area when it comes to mysterious body issues, lameness, and chiropractic. Pricey, but I think she is my best bet.

He backs up willingly with no issue. He is a Dutch Warmblood (KWPN), not super heavy.

Lyme, is very slim given this area of Germany it is a rarity. I always think about Vitamin E/Se levels, and a simple blood test is easy enough.

The part that sticks with me is that his left side is more difficult, and when I pick up his right hind, he snatches it away, and then relaxes. Today I essentially flexed his stifle area (not actual flexion test). Pulled the leg up/folded it up as far as reasonably possible for a few seconds, and when I let go he immediately kicked out. I did the same type of stretch to the left hind, with no reaction. My gut really says stifles or hocks. However, I am not a vet.

He will basically get most of this week off until the farrier comes to fix his loose shoe (over reaches and I left his bell boots off for one day!).

Also somewhat noteworthy: Horse is a nice mover, much power over the jumps, nice going hind end (before issues arose), but is somewhat straight behind and stands slightly underneath himself.

I have upped his hill and pole work recently, so I may have exacerbated an issue. He has never refused or knocked poles, or refused/been difficult about going up or downhill. Horse may just be a trooper until recently where it was just too much, hence the hoppy canter.

#16

Check his Se and E. Going from one hind leg and now both, and snatching foot up while cleaning feet, tightness in back, lead problems.

1 Like
#17

Right hind issues make left lead harder.

#18

This is my first thought too.

#19

I’d start with hocks.

#20

Kissing spine? Will need spine xrays to confirm.

1 Like

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