What do you consider "turnout"?

[trubandloki]

@Ruth0552

Yeah. I know why it happens and I do understand. I guess my frustration is more with the fact that many people think it is OK to put horses out in a 20x20 mud paddock and call it turnout. A ton of places have horses standing in mud for 4 months a year. And not mud that dries out in a day or two. You either need to pick the paddocks every day, or have a larger area with grass that doesn’t need picking.

I think you are over simplifying the whole situation.
And before I get pounced on, I think no mud is the ideal and what we should all aim for, I am not saying that it is OK to just ignore the mud and go on with life.

I will use my place as an example (not boarding, just my critters here).

The soil I have, if I put my horses out on the grass this time of year it would look all warm and fuzzy to the random person driving by because they would see horses grazing on green stuff, but the mud on their legs would probably be higher than the mud is in their sacrifice area. And then my pasture would be ruined and full of holes (oh the joys of clay soil).

[Red_Barn]

@Libby2563

Do anybody else’s horses really seem to like the change of scenery resulting from being moved from the barn to the paddock/pasture/whatever and back again?

Absolutely. I’m sure they do.

And why not? Horses are intelligent animals that evolved to travel over long distances and cope with all kinds of challenges throughout the year, not to stand and stare at the same acre for a lifetime.

In the summer, mine are moved around from stalls to various pastures as grass dictates, as well as being ridden all over the property, and that’s when they’re happiest. In the winter, when it’s just stall to paddock to stall and back again, you can easily see how bored they are, poor things.

[quietann]

Mine has individual turnout on roughly 1/4 acre, which is pretty generous for my area. I don’t think a lot of non-urban/big metropolitan area folks really consider the cost of land – $250K and up for an acre where I am. A quarter acre is enough for her to get a tiny amount of grass in season, and I honestly am fine with that because she’s borderline IR, and a bit fat. Part of the reason I have it is that some of the more “bubble-wrappy” boarders don’t like her paddock because it is rocky and uneven in places.

Turnout in individuals vs groups… well, a lot of boarding barns here won’t turn out horses together because of the risk of injury (again, considering that really big paddocks are a rarity.) My mare kicks, and is food-aggressive to other horses. I don’t really want to be responsible for vet bills when she injures a paddock-mate. She doesn’t have over the fence neighbors right now, but that will change soon. She’s proven to be a good babysitter for horses who need to be confined in a smaller area during rehab.

Where I get hung up is length of turnout. There are places that call 6 hours “all day.” My mare is getting about 7 hours currently. It really boils down to a staffing issue; a barn has the most need for staff early in the morning, and then late in the afternoon. Staffing is expensive, and it’s very difficult to find people who will work split shifts. The last barn had a very responsible teenager whose school bus dropped her off around 3:30; she would bring horses in and feed dinner, and a lot of the time she’d stay at the barn and do night check around 9. At another barn, the on-site working student did night check around 11.

[lenapesadie]

@quietann

Where I get hung up is length of turnout. There are places that call 6 hours “all day.” My mare is getting about 7 hours currently. It really boils down to a staffing issue;

It really is hard for board barns, generally, to do longer turnout hours unless they are willing to do overnight turnout. Just like you say, the staffing issue is tough.

I greatly prefer group turnout, but I did not like having other boarders (kids too!) going in with my horse to get their horse. While my boy is well behaved, I was always worried he might squish a kid. At one barn, they only did individual turnout. While it wasn’t my favorite part of that barn, I was relieved that only staff or myself ever needed to handle or be inside the fence with my horse.

[SugarCubes]

@quietann

Where I get hung up is length of turnout. There are places that call 6 hours “all day.” My mare is getting about 7 hours currently. It really boils down to a staffing issue; a barn has the most need for staff early in the morning, and then late in the afternoon. Staffing is expensive, and it’s very difficult to find people who will work split shifts.

Completely agree with this. I have my horses home, but one goes back and forth from the trainer’s. The daytime staff works from 7-3, which means horses have to be back in by 2 for them to have time to feed everyone before their shift ends. There’s a night worker, but they are only responsible for night check and topping off hay and water. That’s a LONG time to stand in a stall, IMO. I always notice a big behavioral difference in my mare when she’s there, more of a sulky attitude and less enthusiastic about work. BUT, it is one of the few barns in the area that allows private, grass turnout in good sized (all between 1/2-1 acre) paddocks daily.

I have boarders and have run the numbers, and in most cases, hiring more staff equals ending up in the hole, unless you’re willing to skimp on other things such as bedding, quality of feed, quantity of hay, etc. And finding people willing to work an evening shift for what barns pay is challenging, to say the least.

You know the saying about horse shopping, “sound, sane, or cheap…pick two”? Kind of the same in boarding barns! You’ve got to compromise and decide what’s more important to you and your horse.

[lenapesadie]

TBH, even for me with my horses at home it take some planning to keep horses turned out 12 hrs. I try to get them out by 7 am and bring in at 7 pm, but it doesn’t always work out that way.

[XXS]

In my area the biggest topic is space. So regardless of dreaming of a 24/7 grass pasture many horses live in stalls and spend limited time outdoors on paddocks.

Besides space the quality of turnout depends on so many things like dynamic of the herd, mosquitos, mud, heat, grass/hay, …

[moonlitoaksranch]

I’m enjoying the pictures of what turnout looks like in different places.

There shouldn’t be any snark in regards to those with less turnout or urban kept horses. I think those kept in motel type pens with minimal dry lot turnouts are most likely mature animals, rather than growing youngsters. They’ll be fine with regular exercise and an arena to run a few strides and buck. For those of you that expressed such distaste for those urban enclosures, your horses would likely do just fine. The hay is good out there and they typically have hills to exercise on when they trail ride.

Horses once lived in the equivalent of garages in big cities and worked hard every day. I’d say the modern version is much better than that! They are quite adaptable creatures. Some people need that city job and still want to enjoy the benefits of horse ownership. Good for them for finding a creative way to do it. Besides, it’s good for city folks to see horses.

I boarded in many different places when I was in the military (had a military brat horse, lol). The best were private farms with lots of pasture. One was a standard boarding stable with large pasture turnout, just like many pictures posted here. My horse had to quarantine at one base to get used to jet noise. That meant being locked up in a small, strong, pen for a month. It’s all relative.

Yes, where land is cheaper, you can have more of it. However, it likely snows in those places and that means horses may get locked up during big storms. We had to resort to indoor arena turnout, whenever the snow was deep or the fields were too icy, up in the Northeast.

I feel very lucky to have my horses at home, but I’ve lived in many different situations and my horses did just fine then, too.

[sweetsalute]

In my part of the world (east coast of Australia, near one of the bigger cities), most horses live out 24/7. In my experience, if people have stables, they might bring the horses in overnight, or during the day in summer but that’s not super common. Never seen a situation where horses live in stalls 24/7, outside of injury etc. My older mare, when at the vet hospital with acute laminitis, have to be turned out for part of the day despite the fact they wouldn’t usually for a horse in her situation because she was so unaccustomed to a stall she kept colicing.

My two have about 3 acres of pasture, split into 3. The largest is probably 1.5 acres, then 1 acre and the smallest is about 1/2 acre. Each has a run in shed. They get rotated around according to the feed/ground conditions. I’m lucky in that the grass is excellent and after 8 years at that property, have rarely had to feed extra, and even then its not much. I can’t fathom keeping horses in tiny lots, although I realise in some places there’s no choice. When I was looking for board many many years ago, the local “fancy” place only offered a stall with an attached 1/4 acre paddock. The horse I had at the time loved to run (and still does). I decided she wouldn’t be very happy there.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Ultimate urban horse stable.

http://fsurc.com/about-us/

[moonlitoaksranch]

This is a fun article, too.

A look inside the last horse stables in New York City

[lenapesadie]

@moonlitoaksranch

think those kept in motel type pens with minimal dry lot turnouts

TBH I think this set up, mare motels seem to be at least double stall size if not larger, is probably healthier than 20 hrs in a 12x12 stall and 4 hrs of grass turnout. A traditional stall is damn small for a 1000 lbs animal.

runs off zipping up flame suit

[moonlitoaksranch]

Ventilation issues are probably better in those mare motels. I like stall/paddock combinations where the horses can move inside or outside freely, but I had to board in a traditional stall with pasture turnout and I worried about air flow during the winter because the horses were locked up when the snow was piling up. It’s a concern when you have them breathing indoors, even if you clean the stalls daily.

[lenapesadie]

It’s hard to ventilate a barn enough to reduce heat build up in the summer with conventional construction too. Not impossible, but hard. And many barns are older builds with less than the latest and greatest architectural features.

My barn at home is mare motel ish and is a whole heck of a lot cooler than the boarding facility we just moved out of.

[cardinale]

lenapesadie, that’s an interesting point. Research project waiting to be done!

It would be useful to know the minimum effective mix of stall and turnout time and dimensions for those areas where space is at a premium.

[lenapesadie]

It would be an interesting research project!

[moonlitoaksranch]

Our barn here in the South has to take into consideration the heat, the freezes, and the sideways blowing tropical storm/hurricanes. The best solution is the classic Florida barn, where the walls are close together on the bottom and gradually spaced towards the top. It provides excellent air flow. Also, the blowing storms more typically come from either major water source (east or west), so we get away with barn aisles facing north/south to take advantage of breezes. The horses have stall/paddock combos and they use the stalls, even in the heat of summer, because the design allows air flow. They can also see a bit of the outside through the spaces in the walls. It seems to relax them. My Mustang mare loves her stall, even though she wasn’t a fan of stalls in general. I can’t post pictures of our barn, because of the glitch, but you’ve probably seen pictures of these type of barns.

[BrookdaleBay]

I’m very lucky in that the barn I board and work at is on 100 acres, so even the individual turnouts are large enough for a horse to have a good buck and fart around. The manager also has a very good relationship with a neighbouring property that has allowed us access to hack around their fields. The barn is also circle shaped with a high, domed ceiling and skylight, with windows that are left open even in winter for ventilation. There are also ceiling fans that keep air moving. So, even though turnout is only 6 - 7.5 hours, the barn is still a pretty nice place for the horses to be in.

[quietann]

@lenapesadie

TBH I think this set up, mare motels seem to be at least double stall size if not larger, is probably healthier than 20 hrs in a 12x12 stall and 4 hrs of grass turnout. A traditional stall is damn small for a 1000 lbs animal.

Most of the ones I have seen are 4 times a normal stall size, at least. I’ve mostly seen the ones that are in sets of 4 with a roof in the middle shared by the 4. They aren’t an option where I live, but if I was boarding in a milder climate in a more urban area, I’d look for that as an option.

[lenapesadie]

I think it’s a decent set up, climate permitting like you say. I like the open air concept. It’s so hot where I live that anything that lets the air move through is a major plus imo!

Sure it’s not picture perfect ideal but that’s life.

I’ve got a bigger horse, 17 hands plus, and he can’t keep a traditional stall very tidy if he’s in it for very long. When given more room, he’s neat as a pin!