What do you consider "turnout"?

[Ruth0552]

This is part of my frustration in finding boarding. I consider good turnout to be a 1/2 acre with grass. The places that have this are few and far between in central-eastern MA, and I’ve run into multiple people that try to tell me their 20x20 paddocks are fine. A 20x20 paddock is an outdoor stall. I refuse to put my horse in a paddock that is less than 60x60- a horse should be able to make a 20m circle for crying out loud. Because I live in New England, things get muddy in spring/fall, so even if you find a place with a 1/2 acre turnout a horse might not be able to run in it because of the footing. Ideally the paddock would be managed to keep grass, so it wouldn’t get muddy, but unfortunately it’s more likely in MA that someone put 3 horses out on that 1/2 acre and never rotated or seeded, and the horses ate it down so it’s 1/2 acre of dirt. And in the spring, that means it’s a 1/2 acre of mud.

I finally settled on my horse having a large, dry paddock in order to move somewhere with better hay/water and care. It is on a hill, and a bit rocky, but he’s older now so he’s not doing a ton of running.

[Beaudacious22]

I agree with many others that adequate turnout is probably dependent on region and individual needs of the horse. For example, I have two late teens-early twenties horses at home with 24/7 access to a dry lot as their only turnout. Total size is maybe 120x60 or so but it’s not a perfect rectangle. Usually this is split in half to give them each their own 60x60ish space. I would love to have more room for them and am trying to eek out additional turnout on our property but space and terrain makes that difficult. At their age they don’t do much running and bucking anymore and one of them really should not be on grass anyway so it works for us.
That being said, I am in a part of the country where property values are high and land is at a premium. Many barns in this area are not able to offer much more than what I have here. Plus, I’d rather them have access to a smaller paddock 24/7 than only go out for a couple hours a day, which is an unfortunate reality for many larger barns in my state.

[S1969]

@Ruth0552

This is part of my frustration in finding boarding. I consider good turnout to be a 1/2 acre with grass. The places that have this are few and far between in central-eastern MA, and I’ve run into multiple people that try to tell me their 20x20 paddocks are fine.

Well, it is frustrating as a boarder but consider a farm that has 30-40 boarded horses - that would be a huge property to buy, let alone the maintenance of fences, mowing, weedwacking, and hoping to maintain some grass and not just mud and weeds.

I only have 4 acres of pasture at my own farm and it gets difficult to maintain a mowing schedule, and the rosebushes that have grown up on my fence line are practically criminal. I am hiring mowing and weedwacking this year, and it won’t be cheap but it will be a nice treat.

[Gainer]

One of several reasons I left California years ago. Having first had horses in the Midwest where grazing was plentiful (about 5 acres per horse) we were transferred to California, which I loved.

Except there was no turnout, Most of the boarding barns I looked at had no turnout at all. Owner had to take them out and work them every day or they were stuck in stalls. Others were the dirt playpen variety. Neither was what i wanted for my horses and they were obviously unhappy. And there was a severe drought during that time as well.

Five years later, we were able to transfer to Virginia and more of what I consider “normal” turnout, although a lot of farms are really overgrazed and are more like sacrifice lots than pastures . Still there’s room to run and putz around. Ended up getting m my own place where I could make sure the pastures are properly maintained and more what I think of as true turnout.

[Alterration]

Are we speaking of a specific barn? I’m confused.

You asked, who the heck calls a 20x20 big stall sized piece of space turnout. I answered “most barns near a big city do”. That’s what they call turnout. Call it ludicrous if you want, but most barns near a big city call it turnout, as opposed to “being in the stall” or “being exercised”.

[lenapesadie]

@S1969

only have 4 acres of pasture at my own farm and it gets difficult to maintain a mowing schedule, and the rosebushes that have grown up on my fence line are practically criminal

Our place is a grand total of 3.37 acres. Thank god we couldn’t afford anything larger as we are barely able to keep on top of the mowing, weed eating, tree limb trimming, and evil privet bushes.

My previous boarding barn had lovely half acre paddocks with super fencing and run in sheds for each horse. The grass was poor (relatively speaking) due to weeds as they just can’t stay on top of the mowing!

[Simkie]

@Alterration

Are we speaking of a specific barn? I’m confused.

You asked, who the heck calls a 20x20 big stall sized piece of space turnout. I answered “most barns near a big city do”. That’s what they call turnout. Call it ludicrous if you want, but most barns near a big city call it turnout, as opposed to “being in the stall” or “being exercised”.

I actually said this:

@Simkie

Just recently, a local barn posted about a stall available, with every other day “turnout” in an attached run that looked 20’x20’.

So yes, I’m talking about a specific barn, that’s in an area where other barns manage to provide more turnout than 20 x 20 every other day

[Alterration]

@Simkie

Oh, I’ve been at places with turnout every other day–often mares going out something like T Th S and geldings going out M W F–but they go OUT to acres of land!

But who the heck calls a 20 x 20 big stall sized piece of space “turnout”?! That’s just crazy! It’s a porch, not turnout

Ahhhh - I was responding to the second of your posts about it, not the first one. This format is so darned confusing! In isolation, it looked like you were just talking about barns in general

[Pally]

I only skimmed some of the replies (turnout threads are all so darned long ) but while I saw mental aspects mentioned, I didn’t see a much about social aspects. For one, it affects what paddock size I’d call adequate. In general of course, more horses turned out together require more space, but it’s not a case of direct addition. Also, once you start throwing horses together it’s important to consider what kind of social interactions are going to occur. For instance, I’d give 3 silly young boys or 5 cranky broodmares together a lot more space than an individual of the same class. Whereas 2 old, slow buddies might not need much more space than one.

I also think social reasons are a good reason to go to the effort of turnout, even if your turnout space isn’t the “ideal” size, grassiness, or length of time available. I believe this applies even if the horses are in individual, non-touching turnouts. While we all know the social butterflies who like to hang their head out of the stall and bug every passer by, for many horses the stall is their private personal space. Outside they have a chance to relax and be “with the herd” (even if not directly).

FWIW in terms of the topic in general… I grew up in the land of 40 acre pastures and have worked with show horses who see limited individual turnout (and sometimes not at all depending on the road schedule). I’ve seen a wide range of situations between those two. What I’ve learned is:

1. I haven’t seen the completely “ideal” turnout situation yet. Partly because of limitations, priorities, and compromises that need to be made by any barn. But partly because as this thread shows, what is “ideal” and most important to each individual horse and human varies greatly.
2. In general (with some individual horses as exceptions) some kind of turnout somewhere is preferable to none.
3. However, many horses are extremely adaptable and will cope with some time away from turnout or with less than great turnout conditions, provided other needs are being met.

[BatCoach]

what a gorgeous boy! He looks so friendly and kind. His expression says “hey ma, lets go for a ride!”

[Ruth0552]

Yeah. I know why it happens and I do understand. I guess my frustration is more with the fact that many people think it is OK to put horses out in a 20x20 mud paddock and call it turnout. A ton of places have horses standing in mud for 4 months a year. And not mud that dries out in a day or two. You either need to pick the paddocks every day, or have a larger area with grass that doesn’t need picking.

[trubandloki]

@Ruth0552

Yeah. I know why it happens and I do understand. I guess my frustration is more with the fact that many people think it is OK to put horses out in a 20x20 mud paddock and call it turnout. A ton of places have horses standing in mud for 4 months a year. And not mud that dries out in a day or two. You either need to pick the paddocks every day, or have a larger area with grass that doesn’t need picking.

I think you are over simplifying the whole situation.
And before I get pounced on, I think no mud is the ideal and what we should all aim for, I am not saying that it is OK to just ignore the mud and go on with life.

I will use my place as an example (not boarding, just my critters here).

The soil I have, if I put my horses out on the grass this time of year it would look all warm and fuzzy to the random person driving by because they would see horses grazing on green stuff, but the mud on their legs would probably be higher than the mud is in their sacrifice area. And then my pasture would be ruined and full of holes (oh the joys of clay soil).

[Red_Barn]

@Libby2563

Do anybody else’s horses really seem to like the change of scenery resulting from being moved from the barn to the paddock/pasture/whatever and back again?

Absolutely. I’m sure they do.

And why not? Horses are intelligent animals that evolved to travel over long distances and cope with all kinds of challenges throughout the year, not to stand and stare at the same acre for a lifetime.

In the summer, mine are moved around from stalls to various pastures as grass dictates, as well as being ridden all over the property, and that’s when they’re happiest. In the winter, when it’s just stall to paddock to stall and back again, you can easily see how bored they are, poor things.

[quietann]

Mine has individual turnout on roughly 1/4 acre, which is pretty generous for my area. I don’t think a lot of non-urban/big metropolitan area folks really consider the cost of land – $250K and up for an acre where I am. A quarter acre is enough for her to get a tiny amount of grass in season, and I honestly am fine with that because she’s borderline IR, and a bit fat. Part of the reason I have it is that some of the more “bubble-wrappy” boarders don’t like her paddock because it is rocky and uneven in places.

Turnout in individuals vs groups… well, a lot of boarding barns here won’t turn out horses together because of the risk of injury (again, considering that really big paddocks are a rarity.) My mare kicks, and is food-aggressive to other horses. I don’t really want to be responsible for vet bills when she injures a paddock-mate. She doesn’t have over the fence neighbors right now, but that will change soon. She’s proven to be a good babysitter for horses who need to be confined in a smaller area during rehab.

Where I get hung up is length of turnout. There are places that call 6 hours “all day.” My mare is getting about 7 hours currently. It really boils down to a staffing issue; a barn has the most need for staff early in the morning, and then late in the afternoon. Staffing is expensive, and it’s very difficult to find people who will work split shifts. The last barn had a very responsible teenager whose school bus dropped her off around 3:30; she would bring horses in and feed dinner, and a lot of the time she’d stay at the barn and do night check around 9. At another barn, the on-site working student did night check around 11.

[lenapesadie]

@quietann

Where I get hung up is length of turnout. There are places that call 6 hours “all day.” My mare is getting about 7 hours currently. It really boils down to a staffing issue;

It really is hard for board barns, generally, to do longer turnout hours unless they are willing to do overnight turnout. Just like you say, the staffing issue is tough.

I greatly prefer group turnout, but I did not like having other boarders (kids too!) going in with my horse to get their horse. While my boy is well behaved, I was always worried he might squish a kid. At one barn, they only did individual turnout. While it wasn’t my favorite part of that barn, I was relieved that only staff or myself ever needed to handle or be inside the fence with my horse.

[SugarCubes]

@quietann

Where I get hung up is length of turnout. There are places that call 6 hours “all day.” My mare is getting about 7 hours currently. It really boils down to a staffing issue; a barn has the most need for staff early in the morning, and then late in the afternoon. Staffing is expensive, and it’s very difficult to find people who will work split shifts.

Completely agree with this. I have my horses home, but one goes back and forth from the trainer’s. The daytime staff works from 7-3, which means horses have to be back in by 2 for them to have time to feed everyone before their shift ends. There’s a night worker, but they are only responsible for night check and topping off hay and water. That’s a LONG time to stand in a stall, IMO. I always notice a big behavioral difference in my mare when she’s there, more of a sulky attitude and less enthusiastic about work. BUT, it is one of the few barns in the area that allows private, grass turnout in good sized (all between 1/2-1 acre) paddocks daily.

I have boarders and have run the numbers, and in most cases, hiring more staff equals ending up in the hole, unless you’re willing to skimp on other things such as bedding, quality of feed, quantity of hay, etc. And finding people willing to work an evening shift for what barns pay is challenging, to say the least.

You know the saying about horse shopping, “sound, sane, or cheap…pick two”? Kind of the same in boarding barns! You’ve got to compromise and decide what’s more important to you and your horse.

[lenapesadie]

TBH, even for me with my horses at home it take some planning to keep horses turned out 12 hrs. I try to get them out by 7 am and bring in at 7 pm, but it doesn’t always work out that way.

[XXS]

In my area the biggest topic is space. So regardless of dreaming of a 24/7 grass pasture many horses live in stalls and spend limited time outdoors on paddocks.

Besides space the quality of turnout depends on so many things like dynamic of the herd, mosquitos, mud, heat, grass/hay, …

[moonlitoaksranch]

I’m enjoying the pictures of what turnout looks like in different places.

There shouldn’t be any snark in regards to those with less turnout or urban kept horses. I think those kept in motel type pens with minimal dry lot turnouts are most likely mature animals, rather than growing youngsters. They’ll be fine with regular exercise and an arena to run a few strides and buck. For those of you that expressed such distaste for those urban enclosures, your horses would likely do just fine. The hay is good out there and they typically have hills to exercise on when they trail ride.

Horses once lived in the equivalent of garages in big cities and worked hard every day. I’d say the modern version is much better than that! They are quite adaptable creatures. Some people need that city job and still want to enjoy the benefits of horse ownership. Good for them for finding a creative way to do it. Besides, it’s good for city folks to see horses.

I boarded in many different places when I was in the military (had a military brat horse, lol). The best were private farms with lots of pasture. One was a standard boarding stable with large pasture turnout, just like many pictures posted here. My horse had to quarantine at one base to get used to jet noise. That meant being locked up in a small, strong, pen for a month. It’s all relative.

Yes, where land is cheaper, you can have more of it. However, it likely snows in those places and that means horses may get locked up during big storms. We had to resort to indoor arena turnout, whenever the snow was deep or the fields were too icy, up in the Northeast.

I feel very lucky to have my horses at home, but I’ve lived in many different situations and my horses did just fine then, too.

[sweetsalute]

In my part of the world (east coast of Australia, near one of the bigger cities), most horses live out 24/7. In my experience, if people have stables, they might bring the horses in overnight, or during the day in summer but that’s not super common. Never seen a situation where horses live in stalls 24/7, outside of injury etc. My older mare, when at the vet hospital with acute laminitis, have to be turned out for part of the day despite the fact they wouldn’t usually for a horse in her situation because she was so unaccustomed to a stall she kept colicing.

My two have about 3 acres of pasture, split into 3. The largest is probably 1.5 acres, then 1 acre and the smallest is about 1/2 acre. Each has a run in shed. They get rotated around according to the feed/ground conditions. I’m lucky in that the grass is excellent and after 8 years at that property, have rarely had to feed extra, and even then its not much. I can’t fathom keeping horses in tiny lots, although I realise in some places there’s no choice. When I was looking for board many many years ago, the local “fancy” place only offered a stall with an attached 1/4 acre paddock. The horse I had at the time loved to run (and still does). I decided she wouldn’t be very happy there.