What does a reasonable horse cost?

[OverandOnward]

I would agree that KS is not well understood in the general horse community.

I also agree that many horse people have unrealistic “perfect horse“ expectations. They will shy away from various things that are primarily cosmetic and have a little, if any, impact on what they want to do with a particular horse. (mild cow hocks; head shape; etc.)

I’ve also watched a lifetime of “bad behavior” by a few horses that would track with back soreness. That we never acknowledged as physical because we did not understand it.

Some of the undiagnosed physical-cause problematic behavior could have been saddle fit, or muscular, that we also did not understand well, rather than spinal, or a lot of other things. But kissing spine is also on the list.

So does KS get too much attention now because we know more than we did, or did it not get enough attention before because we didn’t know?

[findeight]

OP, have you tried connecting with second career for OTTB places? Like New Vocations? Surely there are Canadian versions? Or deal with one just across the border and ship it?

[2bayboys]

@Silver_star

I am an adult amateur with close to 30 years of experience. I owned a horse as a teenager and into my early twenties (with obviously a great deal of help from my parents) and kept him into his retirement years until he passed away in his mid twenties.
Over the past decade I have had lots of great experiences part boarding and leasing and have always been able to ride consistently. Now that I am more settled in my life, I’d like to take the leap back into horse ownership.
Prices these days seem a lot different than what they used to be and I’ll admit I’ve experienced a bit of sticker shock. I think my expectations are fairly reasonable: green is fine but I’d like to find something that’s had a good start (at minimum, a couple of months under saddle). I’m open to all breeds and partial to TBs. My competitive aspirations are minimal, but I’d like a horse that could ultimately dabble in lower level hunter classes at rated shows (not necessarily win, but hold its own). What does said hypothetical horse cost? I had thought 20-30k would be reasonable but I’m not finding much in that price range.
Would love to hear others’ thoughts on this topic.

I’m very surprised that with your criteria you haven’t been able to find something. A lightly re-started OTTB suitable for the Low Hunter division should be under 15k and there’s lots of them out there. Heck, I just sold a very nice one.

Do you have someone helping you look?

[ATXmom]

OP - have you looked at “After the Races” - I follow them on social and it looks like they get in some nice OTTB. I believe they fully vet them, let them down and lightly start them when they’re ready. Might be worth a look.

[vxf111]

Also might be worth a trip down to see with Benchmark has. Right now she’s got some other breeds other than TBs and she always has a bunch in one spot.

[endlessclimb]

My young mare had mild KS on PPE. I purchased her anyways, as it was not sore to palpation.

Recently I had the vet out for foot xrays amongst other things. I had him xray her back just for S&G. Nothing found, the KS was gone, nothing even close.

Just a perspective to throw out there. 3 years of correct posture, and voila.

[vxf111]

If you’re ever going to resell a horse, it’s worth it to take films because the next buyer might and I’d rather know baseline what’s going on NOW rather than find out later after having invested time and effort into the horse.

I have a horse with KS. I bought him at 3 years old and didn’t x-ray the back (it wasn’t that commonly done back then). He was very sound and happy for years and years and than around age 9/10 started having back pain that took a while to diagnose. Did the films then and he had KS. I did the ligament snipping surgery on him. He came through better than ever and is now many years down the line and quite sound and happy. I would maybe take a chance on bad films… but I’d want to know (and I’d want the price to reflect that what I was buying had those films).

[Limerick]

OP, where in Ontario? I lived in Stittsville before moving to NC. If I were you, since you are partial to TB’s, I would take that pretty healthy TB budget and go to the Makeover in October and shop. You can do a PPE on site and there are usually a bunch of Canadians competing. Bet you can find shipping easily. My daughter and I went in 2019 and she sat on 4 or 5 lovely GoPonytoShowPonies.

Horse Listings - Retired Racehorse Project

[phoenixrises]

When I was looking in your price range and did NOT want something young, I went with an older back burner horse who had zero show record and no change BUT had the brain, and the attitude I wanted. And since in most cases that would cost me $75k I am happy to deal with the other issues that won’t be issues in proper training.

[Silver_star]

I am in the GTA. I had never thought of going to the TB makeover to shop for a horse, but that is a great idea! Definitely something I will consider

[akhunterrider]

We have a couple of OTTBs at our barn that would likely fit this bill. We’re in the midwest. One of them would have sold last year if it weren’t for KS showing up on his xrays. The buyer didn’t want to take the risk. He is in his teens and has been sound for nearly all of the time he has been in riding horse work. Her did get his hocks injected last fall and this spring and has remained sound for his job (3 foot and below local level show horse).

[Limerick]

On the kissing spines thing, does anyone else think that since saddles have gotten heavier and have thus caused more sore backs? “Your horse needs proper conditioning and riding 4-5 days a week with a well fitted saddle” becomes “let’s give up bc KS.”

I know the day we did a PPE on our current horse, the vet had been on a call with a European vet. He specially said “Americans need to stop freaking out about back X-rays since 30 per cent of WB’s show kissing spines.”

[Limerick]

Feel free to ask questions about our experience. It is truly the happiest horse show on earth. I remember standing by the Hunter ring at the Kentucky Horse Park with all the TB’s braided and quietly hanging out, I thought it was such a wonderful showcase for these athletes. The Makeover people even have backdrops set up for photos of people who purchase at the Makeover!

[TheDBYC]

@RAyers that’s a good point. I took an anatomy for yoga instructors course from Kristin Leal for my CE hours in 2021. Being rather non-bendy myself, I’ve gotten hurt a few times over the years by instructors who meant well but had never been educated past a one-size fits all approach. As a result I rarely to never offer hands on adjustments in class and try to emphasis focusing on what a shape feels like rather than what it looks like. Even so, watching Kristin methodically lay out 3-4 different acromion/humerus combos from her huge bone collection was jaw-dropping. Some people simply cannot raise their arms straight overhead b/c of the shape of their acromion. Try to “help” them by squeezing their arms up and back and you’re literally jamming the head of the humerus into that fragile little shelf of bone. Stands to reason that horse skeletons would run an incredible gamut of shapes as well.

OP, I think your budget is doable. But like @Bristol_Bay said upthread, you’ll have to be ready to act quickly. DD16’s horse is basically what you’re looking for and was advertised at $20k. We only managed to get him because our trainer was “WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS A SCHOOL DAY?? WE NEED TO GET IN THERE NOWWWWWW!” We were the first to try him and trainer moved heaven and earth to get a vet out to do a PPE done within 2 days. Horse is a teenaged, imported WB jumper who is definitely, uh, quirky. But he’s extremely well-schooled (including some jaw-dropping dressage movements that only revealed themselves as DD16 started to seriously devote time and energy to that end), he adores DD16 and takes good care of her, and is a favorite of barn staff for his puppy-dog personality and impeccable ground manners.

He’s very relaxed and even a bit of a kick ride over smaller fences: the previous owner’s trainer rode him in the 2’6" division at a schooling hunter show to get a sale video demoing his relaxed demeanor. They won the division. I doubt he’d be good in 3’ hunters as he starts to wake up and roar into Euro Jumper mode at 2’9"+. But relaxed enough that DD seriously considered taking him into the Junior Eq U/S on a whim at their last A show.

[Angel_Undercover]

Contact LongRun & Chiefswood Aftercare. May be a bit greener than you’re looking for, but both have lovely horses (we have several at my barn, including my heart horse who is now a successful hunter on the A circuit).

[RAyers]

A complete aside. The reason I love spine research/medicine is that every surgery is a one off. With hips and knees, for example, most device manufactures only need 6-10 total different devices to cover all human types. Spine has no equivalent. It goes to all vertebrates as well. The only way we can think about normal is millions of spines to create a series of general likelihoods.

[kaileymindle]

Honestly, if your budget is $20-30k, I would personally go the import route (account for the $10-15k shipping fee from Europe.) You’re going to get a lot more bang for your buck in that market than the US. As soon as your $10k horse from Germany lands in the US, you can sell it for $40k. I wish I was joking, it’s ridiculous! Of course, work with a qualified trainer who has experience importing. It’s going to be a slight gamble, but again if it doesn’t work out you can always sell and double your money (to buy more horses!)

I understand imports aren’t for everyone though, but even your budget in the US is totally doable. Especially if you’re okay with TBs and greenies! I don’t usually talk numbers but I’ve bought two horses in the US in this price range within the past year, both hunky 17hh+ WBs, ages 4-7, jumping 2’6 at home with a change (very greenly, but they still were.) I rarely buy horses with show records and that’s definitely where I save!

[dags]

@kaileymindle

It’s going to be a slight gamble

Respectfully, “slight” is not the adjective I would use for that gamble, especially if you’re an amateur piloting this ship with minimal professional help and inquiring on whatever rando European ads google shows you. Maybe you’ll find some low 5 fig options in the UK area (and at least the language works in your favor there), but Germany, Belgium, Netherlands et al are not selling horses for 10K anymore. That ship has sailed. Maybe if you’re buying 2-3 others and they see an opportunity to unload a pasture puff that hasn’t shown much of any talent (or is nuts), but $10k just isn’t enough money to deal with an American amateur buying for the first time off video.

(No offense OP, you should absolutely dot your "i"s and cross your "t"s in this search, but foreign agents that sell horses for a living tend to have little patience for this).

And for the desired goals there’s just no reason to take that risk. Occasional low-level hunter goals don’t need a purpose-bred show jumper. Maybe it lacks the scope of its ancestors but it probably inherited their power.

A TB truly sounds perfect for this, though it can be a challenge to scope out hunter talent when they’re recently off the track. RRP would be an incredible option for what it sounds like OP wants - they have an entire sales list available, you get to evaluate not just talent but also brains in a horse show setting, and OPs budget pretty much matches the max prices you’ll see there. AND you get to come see gorgeous Lexington, KY It’s just around the corner and will be here in no time!

[Amy3996]

@dmveventer

OP, have you considered broadening your search to include other disciplines? Most of the green OTTBs are geared towards eventers these days because that’s where the demand is, but many of those horses would be suitable for the hunters too (including the one I bought!). If you can catch a nice prospect before it actually steps foot in the hunter ring you should be able to get a good deal; once the hunter label is applied the prices will go up.

This was my experience to a T. I bought a solidly restarted, coming 6yo 16.2h OTTB for a little under $15K. He’d been brought along for resale as an eventer - had coursed up to 2’6” and XC schooled. Plenty of scope and brave as all get out over the fences, but just didn’t have the motor (not a shock given his abysmal performance on the track ). He has a lovely flat-kneed movement and a rocking horse canter that should be right at home in the hunters.

He had some niggly physical issues that needed to be addressed but once we got him in a program that suited him, he’s really blossomed. So add me to the list of people who would recommend watching for one who might flunk out of eventer school. Had he been marketed as a hunter prospect, I think his price probably would’ve doubled.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

Many OTTBs have good basics installed before they go to the track. Lots of breeders are mindful of second occupations. So check here. There are some good prospects.

https://canterusa.org/horses/listings?gclid=CjwKCAjwzJmlBhBBEiwAEJyLu5TWVeDSu47jJVz8cK5uDyJqJ51cPW2YlvhxPdvCl6qwefxJ1ICvKxoCICkQAvD_BwE