What Happens to the Horses Who Fail Their PPE?

[SBrentnall]

I did a PPE on a horse in June and he failed spectacularly. 3/5 lame on 3 legs, failed flexions, was noticeably dragging toes in all gaits, and palpated sore through his back. It was bad enough that the hospital suspected a suspensory or SI injury.

He was diagnosed with back pain and given a month off, then retested. There was no improvement.

I loved riding this horse but since they don’t even know the source of the lameness yet, it’s hard to commit to even leasing. Especially since he’s on the other side of the country and getting him to me would be expensive.

[Kyrabee]

I had two ‘fail’ PPE. My horse and the one I was looking to buy. A two-fer .

I passed on the one I was looking at. He had a funky front foot that was an odd shape and had something going on inside with an old abscess tract or a foreign body? He was lame the first time I tried him but sound later with shoes and a pad. My vet felt that it would take a long time to remedy if one could (get a normal shaped hoof) He was only 4 and I declined.

In the meantime, my horse (7 yo at the time) I was trying to sell was declared navicular due to lollipops on his x-rays and the fact that he was sore…yes. Take a horse from an irrigated pasture, pull his shoes then leave them off and put him in a dry lot pen full of river rocks. I would be sore too.

I took the younger horse back and brought my horse home. I don’t know why they didn’t put his shoes back on so poor guy had to gimp around for about a week before I could get the farrier out. The other horse’s owners were on my case as if I was going to take out an ad and advertise how lame their horse was. They even sent did their own x-rays and sent them to WSU. Their verdict…that one foot had rotation…no abscess tract. Oh yes, now I really want him…NOT. They did eventually sell him and I heard 4-5 years later he was retired due to severe navicular (back in the pre-MRI days when all they had was x-rays).

My horse was fine once he got shod again. I gave him to a friend who was horseless. I explained their findings and she was willing to take him on trial (feed him so I could find another horse). He sat over the winter and was pretty stiff behind when she brought him back in the spring. She found out he had early onset hock arthritis. This was long ago before the days of injections. Vet told her how to manage him and he became a mountain horse extraordinaire. I think his hocks fused pretty quickly. She rode him until he was in his mid-20’s then assigned him to teaching the grandkids to ride. He passed away at 30yo.

Since that fiasco, I have only bought youngsters between 1 and 2 yo. That has served me well.

Susan

[VodkaRedbullx2]

Agree. That’s why uli never think it’s appropriate to do a “deposit based on ppe findings”. They are so grey.

[Annie10]

@VodkaRedbullx2

Well, if it’s a mare breed it.
If it’s a gelding find someone else to buy it at a different price point.

I think lots of other things need to come into consideration before “if it’s a mare breed it”.

[whitmers]

I had one of these. A 9 y.o. OTTB war horse that my friend and I acquired to resell. We had a buyer but the horse flunked the PPE badly. He was deemed serviceably sound for light trail riding but not much else. My friend kept him at her farm as a companion to her other horses until he had to be put down in his mid teens. Luckily there was space for him, don’t know what we would have done otherwise. (I couldn’t keep him as I had a mare and he didn’t have manners with the ladies…)

[Arzny]

The ones who are sound to work become lease horses. There are some very nice horses who are leased due to PPE findings.

[HeartsDesireEventing]

A friend and I were partners on a horse years ago - she kept him at her farm and paid his upkeep, and I put the training on him - with the intent of selling him. He failed a PPE, which ended up with her giving up her share, me keeping him, and him becoming my Intermediate horse So I would say it definitely depends on why the horse ‘fails’, the seller’s/buyer’s situations, etc. as to what happens next.

[anonevent]

I always get multiple opinions on images from PPEs …and they are opinions. Sometimes they vary wildly.

[Arelle]

Apparently they just live as freeloaders in my pasture for years.

Seriously though, it’s not a good outlook. I had a horse I won with all over the country in my early 20s. He was out of my budget at the time, but I was able to show him and get him exposure for the owner. Owner ended up increasing his price after we put several titles on him and then he spectacularly failed a couple of PPEs and ended up being donated to a college team for the tax write off. I ended up buying him from the college three years later because he’d become a bronc with their riders due to severe kissing spine and a malady of other issues. He’s been retired at my place ever since as I didn’t want someone to see his history and think “I can fix this” and put him through a really crappy life.

He babysits my foals and rules the property.

[Equisis]

Ethically, I think you decide whether the horse could be suitable for a low level career (at a serious discount) or move on to retirement/euthanasia. I agree with the poster above who said “failing” a PPE is a grey area. It’s a case of buyer comfort with any issues that arise, and what constitutes unacceptable risk to one buyer may be acceptable to someone else.

I have had three horses that I was selling “fail” over the years. The first horse sustained a minor injury while on trial with the potential buyer; I took him back, rehabbed him, and sold him once he was back sound and competing. The second was one that I owned and had sketchy back films with no clinical signs- that one I sold to a friend with full disclosure and at a discount. He is doing great with minor maintenance. The last is a horse that was clinically sound for the PPE but had a litany of things come up on imaging, truly the most disappointing PPE I have ever seen. This horse was on consignment and I was able to convince the owner to purchase the results and we re-listed with full disclosure of findings and at bargain basement price. The horse wound up being sold to a talented rider on a very limited budget, and as of right now (2 years later) the horse is competing and sound with zero maintenance. Definitely a risky purchase, but I feel that it was done ethically, and the buyer has the means to retire the horse if it becomes necessary down the road.

I care far too much about my reputation to try to pull one over on a buyer, not to mention the ethical implications of setting a horse up for potential or likely failure.

[B_and_B]

I’ve always been haunted by this question. I was the buyer, the horse in question a very nicely bred, green broke 3 year old draft gelding, no performance record aside from being ground driven on flat ground gently. Known to be exceptionally lazy. No vet records aside from regular vaccinations, which had been given by the owners (so no vet record since birth). He failed the PPE: Grade 4 heart murmur of the ‘bad’ sort. Confirmed by a major North CA vet hospital via ultrasound, and their vet, and then my vet looked at the readings and said NO. I was looking for a horse that could be a working draft horse. I gave them a lowball offer, basically I could take him and give him a home (this was a breeding operation shutting down and selling off even aged broodmares) because… I felt very bad, because they spent a lot of money confirming it. I paid for the PPE, but they paid for the further diagnostics. Not on my asking.
I’ve always wondered what happened. I hope that horse is living out his life as a big, hairy, well loved boy (black with lots of chrome). But…

[Willesdon]

Many years ago, my riding club owned a very good looking 16.2 bay gelding who, unfortunately, was the most accident prone creature. He even managed to hang himself up by one leg on his (correctly positioned and tied) haynet in his stable and he needed several weeks of care to recover from that experience. Then a few months later he did it again, to be found first thing in the morning looking sheepish with his extended foreleg held in the haynet. This time, after months of rehab and turnout in a large pasture, he was deemed to be permanently lame and so unable to work. After much argument, the club committee decided to give him to the landowner, a professional horse person, because her partner loved him. A lovely forever home for a very sweet horse. Some twelve months later we heard that the couple had split up, their land sold, their horses dispersed. I have no idea what happened to a very good looking bay gelding who was permanently lame. I had argued vigorously that as a horse that was no longer able to work he should be PTS to ensure he never fell on bad times. I still wonder what happened to him.

[2DogsFarm]

THIS!

Long time ago, H/J trainer bought herself a striking chestnut mare. Tall, leggy, lovely to look at…
But mare’s brain was like a single peanut rolling in a tin can
Just nutz U/S.
So mare got bred.
By trainer, but stud fee footed by one of trainer’s Pet clients.
Who kept mare at their small private barn until she foaled.
This was nearly 40yrs ago, so I don’t recall how foaling went, or what they got, or how it turned out.
But at the time it made me wonder why anyone would want to gamble on getting that temperament again.
& Waiting at least 3yrs to find out if rideable.

[Annie10]

Definitely. Too many nasty, crooked legged cow hocked lame mares being bred just because they have a uterus and can’t do anything else with them. Putting out crappy less than mediocre horses and fueling the slaughter pipeline.

It’s different if you have a nice mare with a performance record who suffered an injury…

[EmilyM]

@c0608524

On a side note, what is considered the social norm for sharing PPE findings with the seller?

I always offer to provide the information for free for the benefit of the horse. In hopes the seller will address the issue. It’s already sunk cost to me.

[beau159]

@sapphiremoon

I’m not talking about horses who have minor issues come up on the PPE. I mean horses who fail the PPE badly… Not serviceable for even low-level jobs and not easy to sell anymore. Especially in cases where the owner/seller was unaware of the severity of lameness prior to the exam.
Has anyone ever seen this happen and know what ended up being done with the horse? I can only imagine the worst outcome. I have heard many stories of people who think they found the perfect horse, but PPE shows issues that are beyond repair. Never thought I’d experience it until I brought a horse in for a lease-to-buy situation. Fantastic horse but I had some suspicions of lameness. PPE confirmed the worst. Now I have to question, what happens to horses in this situation if the buyer does not move forward, and the seller can not sell?
I’m sure it varies a lot from one case to another, but I am curious if anyone could share any stories about the outcomes they’ve seen. Do they find a cushy retirement home or end up in an auction? Would love to hear some perspectives on this.

Well, it just depends.

I had a barrel racing horse (who I had owned his whole life) and finally figured out he was born with crooked vertebrae in his neck. Retired him at age 10 and sold him to some friends who wanted a solid, sane, safe leisure trail riding horse. They still send me updates, and he’s fought over by little girls who want to ride him. He’s everyone’s favorite and he’s doing great.

I currently have a horse, that’s I’ve had for a very long time, and he’s now 18. He’s been “not quite right” for 2 years now. I’ve accepted the fact that he’s retired now although he’s packing my children around and doing a great job at it. I keep him as comfortable as I can and he greatly enjoys still serving a purpose.

Both of these horses would fail a PPE miserably, LOL. And things that can’t be fixed. But they are still serving a purpose, and happy to do it.

[rulex]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I also think there is a TON of gray area when it comes to “failing” a PPE.

Unfortunately I’m one of those people who has done a lot a PPEs that my vet advised me to pass on. One I can think of was sold for a much lower price with full disclosure. Another one had had a pastern injury as a youngster and had ugly x-rays but was otherwise asymptomatic. I passed on the advice of my vet, but I recently saw on social media he’s gone on to do jumpers and seems to be doing well.

Another youngster I passed on had a big bone chip. Sellers did surgery and sold him on as a jumper as well. So sometimes the horse can do well with a buyer with a higher risk tolerance.

[Lusoluv]

Many years ago I was looking at a baroque prospect for dressage. The adult children were dispersing their parents’ breeding herd and offspring as they had passed away. I PPE’d the nicest moving (and highest priced 3 yr old) they had, but x-rays revealed an old hock fracture. Horse was unstarted, so we assumed it was a pasture accident or kick injury. I passed after having the x-rays examined by 2 Ortho experts. A few months later I was contacted by a vet/dressage rider who was also interested in the horse. I forwarded the x-rays to them. They had their own farm and the ability to “manage potential hock issues” down the road. But even they didn’t buy the horse at a greatly reduced price, based on the findings. Always wondered what happened to that beautiful, and at that time, asymptomatic young horse…

[Callista17]

My first horse failed her PPE.
She was a wild & crazy chestnut tb mare, very young, owned by a girl maybe in high school?
She “failed” because she had thrush.
She also technically almost sat on the vet when she went to take her temp. The vet was an absolutely no nonsense woman that soon after got a job in a lab, which she was suited for.
The horse was getting her feet done in a few days, for what I was paying for her…I took a chance.
She was awesome! We were a team. Most people in our area knew of us, would watch our rides, and we’d work on dressage, do some jumps later that day, go on a trail ride, then be asked to show off for lesson kids later. We both loved it.

[endlessclimb]

Similar story - I did a PPE on a well bred warm blood 2 year old. Xrays revealed a coffin bone fracture, vet wasn’t sure what the long term outcome would be.

I passed

I google his name from time to time to see if he ever did anything and I can’t find him. Of course it’s possible someone changed his name, though.