I think you need to move TBH, there are other good pros. I cannot see how this 22+ a month is in your horse’s or your interests.
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I feel the same way! I have ridden at barns with pre-pay packages; it was more barns where there was pressure to show when I truly did not feel ready and therefore did not enjoy the experience that irked me.
Although I’ve been at very “rough” barns where I felt even pressure to lesson so the barn owners could stay afloat–for example, barns that would guilt me into scheduling lessons when it was too hot to do anything but walk or too cold for me to comfortably move, or during bad weather on the roads–I actually don’t mind hacking a horse on my own in extreme heat/cold, TBH, but paying for a lesson when all you want to do is hose the horse off and ride bareback or ride on blankets because it’s too cold to even open buckles kind of irked me.
But back to the OP–OP you sound like someone with a high-pressure job who enjoys the work but is working way too many hours and is experiencing too much stress and pressure to perform at a high level. But this is your hobby not a job! Would you be happier at a less competitive barn. This sounds like it’s more for your trainer’s needs than your pleasure or your horse’s education.
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Holy horse welfare. That’s a LOT of jumps. Especially for a hunter. I do about 2 shows a month and 3-4 classes a week.
Not to mention cost. I just posted and shared what it cost for me to do a relatively local show. $7k. Ugh.
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@Tini_Sea_Soldier1: thank you for this thread. I laugh every time I see the title. Right: answer: someone with a horse… 
And thanks for sharing your situation. I hope that no one gets fixated on the $ details. I think this dilemma is widespread, at maybe other levels. Like the rider that does not want to show X times a year, or travel A hours away from home for shows. But the barn want to show X times and is going to shows A hours away, and you are not really welcome with a plan to show Y times… And maybe do not have other options for good care and good facility at other barns. I feel for riders/owners in this situation. Too many that I know just give up - sell the horse and more on, which is a darn shame.
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Right, it’s true. A lot of folks are getting hung up on the semantics of Tini’s particular situation, which while extreme, is not that far out there compared to what your average mid-level client at an “A”-circuit Hunter/Jumper barn deals with.
I mean, I was laughing with a friend this morning that I actually did not know where one of my horses was today—he was either at the farm or the show, but I didn’t know which one was the plan for this week until I got a text this afternoon. That’s a degree of control I’m willing to relinquish to my trainer, but I understand why some people don’t feel comfortable with that, and more and more trainers do require that level of “ownership” to be a part of their program. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong or that there aren’t alternatives, but the idea is very much that if you want to show at a certain level, you either get with the program… or don’t.
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Perfect Prep
Thanks, That’s truly a sweet response.
Agreed and quite honestly, I do love being on the road and riding at this level. It’s elevated my riding and it’s challenged me to do things that, at this point in my life, I didn’t think I still had in me and/or could do on a competitive level. So there’s some magic in it.
I just wish… and really do wish… that this barn pro would roll out a calendar (hell, I’d settle for 4-6 months at at time), and do plan. We are going to X for 2 weeks in May, if there’s interest, we can stay an additional week, but horses can ship home after week 2. We are going to X for Summer circuit. in June, July, and August… horses can show up to 8 weeks or as little as 4, but plan that if you’re coming back early, that you will need to find commercial shipper. We are going to X for September. October is on hold for indoors but may include X if we do not do all of them, November is let down. December is for pre-circuit. That would make me happy, but it’s still a toss-up of what, where and how it’s all shaking out. Sigh.
Thanks for listening, guys. I truly appreciate it. It’s been weighing heavy on my mind and I know these topics are taboo, so I do appreciate everyone being so forthcoming and sharing.
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Thank You. I really hope that is the case, because it often feels like I’m never doing enough.
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Believe me, I get it. I know my situation is just airing dirty laundry of what many are quietly also going through, and I know that many don’t even look at their bills and just pay them. I just was cut from a different cloth where I evaluate things and being the kid of scientific folks, I ask questions when things don’t add up. Plus, I grew up being very hands-on with my older show barns, so I’m “unfortunately” saddled with enough knowledge to know when things don’t look right or understand when something is just not being managed properly. I try to keep things specifically to my own personal animal’s welfare and raise “questions” rather than demands, in efforts to not ruffle feathers. It’s just getting tiring trying to do it all and I’m at the point where, at this stage of the game, if the cost and expense is going to be elevated, then I expect the whole operation to level up, as well.
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Literally my old barn. Most of the clients they favored over time were juniors with non-horsey relatively high income parents who took their kids out of “normal” school during Covid & never integrated them back to the classroom and plan to have their kids ride & show as much as possible before they age out.
The kids show every other week minimum (SoCal, lots of venues within a 2ish hour drive all year round).
90% of the AAs that were there when I was there have since left said barn especially because they did not have a quality Assistant Trainer who stayed home during those shows (e.g. Asst Trainer wouldn’t get on any of my former lease jumpers - I am an exceedingly mediocre rider - .90s & no desire to ever really jump higher except in grids - because they were “too much” – aka had actual canters that were powerful and round).
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Merciful heavens. 24 shows a year? I mean maybe this is just showing what a creaky pair me and my AA hunter are, but I’m fairly confident one of us if not both of us would end up in PT and on injections after a year of that. We’re usually at half that number of shows in a year.
That sounds like a super rigorous program, Tini, cost aside. What’s the home training situation like? Can you get enough out of that if you’re not showing 24x a year, or is the cost for that just too exorbitant?
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I’m just wondering how one has the stamina for 24… or even 16 shows a year! I’m just finished a two week local A show and am still recovering. By the second Tuesday I was ready to be done! (Granted we had high humidity and heat so that didn’t help) I don’t even think my horse has the stamina for 16 shows. When he got home after the two weeks he was literally snoozing in his paddock all day. (We did go home on the Sunday evening of the first week for a day’s break) I’m not overly concerned about my ability to cope with showing but I’d be concerned with the amount of time the horse was on the road, cooped up in a show stall, and the lack of a mental and physical break for them. How do people do it? I would certainly be a broken person with a broken horse if we were on the road that much! Not judging just amazed- I’m assuming the barns have grooms doing everything and the riders don’t have to do anything much other than show up and ride?
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This is all interesting stuff. Just want to reiterate that it is not necessary to show twice a month to be competitive: it depends on your definition, everyone is different, but I mean to qualify for Devon and indoors and have a shot at a crap ribbon and your chance to puke at the in-gate or run into a post or another lady at Harrisburg. I know this for a fact, because last year I looked up like a weirdo how many shows a couple fellow competitors had been to. Just hoping that there is some slightly lesser program that could take you to where you want to go! You can get to the big leagues through the B lane too, doesn’t look as pretty, but saved me from divorce, thus far.
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The problem is that it is somewhat necessary to train with trainers who are competitive at that level to be competitive at that level, and if those trainers are never or rarely home, you won’t actually get to train with them unless you are also at the horse show. Next time you’re data crunching, see how many weeks those TRAINERS are showing. It is wild.
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Does the H/J world have anything where you can board at a boarding barn with good care for horses, then trailer to a good trainer for lessons and pay coaching fees for said trainer at shows that you choose? Or is that not possible anymore?
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I don’t think that exists at this level. The trainer and most of the barn is going hundreds of miles away for weeks at a time, it’s not an option for the horse owner to drive their own trailer and just pop in for a day.
It’s interesting, hunters is the primary discipline for juniors with deep pocketed parents, and there it makes obvious sense that a bunch of tweens are going to need a fully supported wrap-around program to compete at high levels on horses that are almost too much for them. They aren’t hacking to shows or having Dad haul them on a Saturday morning.
But the adult amateur hunter barns seem to run on the same model of a complete program where the owner just shows up to ride a few classes. I think for adults, that’s the only way a busy person with a career could make this happen. You don’t have hours in the week to haul your own horse 300 miles and back and show and have a job too
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Thanks much for the insight. Now I see why it’s so expensive.
I did A rated dressage shows with the routine I mentioned. It worked well for me and my horses because I made my own show and lesson schedule, and they got 12 hours of turnout daily. But as a working adult, I only went to weekend shows.
It sounds like very soon only 1 percenters will be able to follow the H/J circuit. I’m so sorry for those of you trying to stay in the game. Hang in there.
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ETA: My post got long. The short version: Does your pro know that you are preserving this horse because there won’t be another one to follow? If not, say that out loud.
Wow, OP, a lot has changed while I was out of the game, hoping to make enough money to maybe get back in, LOL.
I truly understand the pro’s interest in a “tuition” model and maybe the requirement that people show some minimum amount. These are for income and/or predictable cash-flow reasons. But do these high-pressure programs also assume that the client has more than one horse or will just lease/buy the next one to continue on the 22 shows/year when the first horse gets broken? Do they need you to come to the shows because no one stays home to teach you, so if you didn’t show you wouldn’t keep tuned up or progress?
I quoted this post of yours because I think it is an important Truth-- capitalized because it’s important for you and because it’s even important for your pro to know: There are no more years of 22 horse shows if/when your current horse gets hurt.
If that’s the truth, I’d say stick to your guns, but also let the pro know that it might work out better for them to let you conserve the horse you have.
I can appreciate that magic for you (and probably for the pro, not just as a business person) that comes from your improved performance. That’s the kind of peak experience anyone would live for and want to extend. That’s not just about money for the pro, at least I’d assume so.
But! Any seasoned horseman knows that when a good horse is getting to the top of his game, the requirement changes a little bit to conservation of his legs, his health and his “want to.”
IMO, you deserve a pro with enough depth of experience or character to realize that the slower schedule, perhaps with fewer shows but the preparation for each of those being spot-on so that you are really competitive is good for you and your horse. Your current pro might want to cut you loose prematurely when you explain that you aren’t willing to do this indefinitely, with whatever horse you’d have to buy next.
But if you can find a better horseman of a trainer whose business model can be alined with your version of showing, I don’t think it will be hard to explain to anyone why you changed barns. The decision you’d make—Moving from X barn to Y barn because X’s schedule wouldn’t let you preserve this wonderful horse you have and extend the time you have showing with him-- if fair to both sides and reasonable.
Your post makes me realize that there are barns out there who really do want to show At All Costs, including (perhaps) using up some very expensive horses. It sounds damn untenable to me (just considering the financial investment, not even the ethics of it), but you can’t change that if those pros can find the clients willing to play ball. I suspect, however, that there are other good trainers who also don’t want to be quite that deep into the rat race of modern showing.
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Can I ask a question I’ve always wondered to those who show every weekend/majority of weekends:
Are you still expected, despite being at shows the majority of the time, to pay FULL board (training or otherwise but I assume whatever the highest/most $ option is)? - and are you getting what that board promises you without paying extra, such as all the training rides promised and all the care promised, even at shows?
PLUS on top of that, do you pay for “show horse care” and splits on things that your board should cover such as hay and shavings?
If so, what does your full board give you other than the ability to show with that barn and that trainer’s name beside yours?
I think I know the answers are “yes”, “no”, and “yes” but this still baffles me. I understand trainers need to make money but this always seemed like highway robbery to me.
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This is true, but the barns I have ever considered in our area (ours and two others), including the tippy top one that I can’t swing financially and psychologically, have a rider or assistant trainer that gives lessons at home and takes care of the side business of novice and older riders (only ones that could eventually bring profit to the barn or that are connected to fancy clients). We actually have one regular rider/assistant trainer and one who can do overflow on the weekend as needed. This I guess from this thread is not the norm, which is unfortunate. Even still people complain during the Florida season. I don’t because I really like the assistant trainer and have older horses. I can see that with a green one this setup would not be attractive in the least. A fancy 3ft and 3’3’’ greenie that shows 15-16 shows a year with or without the client is truly the sweet spot for the barn.
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