What is a "broke" person?

[foursocks]

@Tha_Ridge

Totally. I remember courses I jumped two weeks ago because the jumper courses are so distinctive.

I can remember some courses I jumped YEARS ago. This is quite a feat, since I just forgot what I went into the kitchen for twice today.

I grew up in the hunters but I was priced out of the A shows when I came back to riding as an adult and decided to try the jumper ring. I would never go back- I lovelovelove the jumpers. It’s so much fun when you have a scopey horse and the course is challenging but doable. I have had to take the entire season off because I needed eye surgery but I’m dreaming of the fall…

As for the rising costs, I think one of the hardest things in H/J-land is when you are in a program that no longer quite fits. For both good and bad reasons, the model many have is very regimented. I can’t do it, not just for the costs, but I’m way too independent, so I ride with eventers. Not only do I keep my budget reasonable, but I have complete autonomy, with as much or as little help as I need and want. Riding is hard enough without feeling like your barn/trainers/other riders think you are a cheap loser! I ride to compete and win, but I also ride for fun, and that is something it’s good to remember, I think.

While I’m out of the saddle my two boys are in work with my trainer, who is an FEI event rider and is putting some extra-useful (and fancy) dressage buttons on the young one and getting my fat, older tube to remember how to sit and use his butt. Today she did not-quite-but-next-door to canter pirouettes with both in the middle of jumping them around, just to test the balance she had. SO FUN! This is what it is about for me- learning, watching a really good training ride, dreaming of getting back in the saddle and (trying, at least) to replicate the good work my trainer is putting in so we can go back to showing that much better-schooled and ready.

OP, you sound like a great client to have, and your horse sounds perfect. Hopefully you can either step down your schedule, or find a place that suits you and your budget and your needs better.

[Darkwave]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

Ohh it was attempted by a few and resulted in a mushroom cloud type reaction. Things are not good and I’m really torn about what to do.
Thank you to everyone that has weighed in on their opinions. I guess I had assumed that everyone was doing 20-24 shows a year that were showing actively on A circuit. It’s been a minute since I’ve been in this space and getting back into it, I was sort of going with the flow. That being said, the more I talk this through and the more things start to unravel, I’m starting to really want to stick to my gut and insist that we’re on a 16-18 show schedule next year regardless of the “expectation” and that if that’s not going to work in their world, then let’s work together to find me a place that it will. To be clear, I do not want to leave, but I also don’t want to be miserable worrying that I’m being the anchor that’s holding them back or the cheapo in the barn. If that’s the plan moving forward and others are comfortable in it, then I respect that it’s no longer for me but that it’s their business plan and they haven’t budged from it.

So I feel like I’ve seen this movie before (and lived it).

I think that some barns/trainers try to follow a version of “if you build it, they will come.” Essentially, if they impose a set of requirements that will only work for a certain subset of clients, then they’ll end up with a barn full of those clients.

Here, I can’t believe anyone (including the barn/trainer in this scenario) thinks it’s realistic for an ammy with one horse to do 22 shows a year. Rather, in your case they want to end up with a program full of people willing and able to do 22 shows a year, including funding the multiple horses needed to do so.

So they’re imposing this inflexible rule with the intent that everyone who doesn’t fit their plan either changes to match the new model or leaves and is replaced by someone who does fit. It’s a gamble - they might end up with empty stalls for far longer than they would like.

I’m sad to say this, but I think this is a clear sign to move on.

[TheDBYC]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

Yeah… I feel like mine on the same standards. I floated the idea that 18 shows sounded like a better option for 2024, and that went over like a fart in church. So it feels like it’s not going to be an option to scale back, it’s more of a conform or leave.

Setting aside finances for a second, imo that’s still A LOT of shows and a lot of physical and mental wear and tear on a horse. Probably too much. A horse only has so many jumps in it. My now 16yo DD started her career as a hunter pony kid. It isn’t unusual for Hunters here to still hit 2-4 smaller shows a weekend in pursuit of year end points for the state horse show association, Pony Finals, etc, even if they don’t travel with the big boy and girl A/AA circuit. Isn’t that hella jumping? “Oh, it’s just the Hunters,” people said. OK. But that’s still multiple rounds daily for a week straight at 2" for that 12.1hh pony or 3" for that big imported WB.
I started reading Lauren Sprieser’s blog to DD. Lauren being local made her “real” for DD. We discussed at length Lauren’s approach to planning out each individual horse’s competition schedule for the season and the year. We talked (well, argued back then) about how Lauren left nothing to chance. She had a plan for the next month, the season, the next few years.

We fell into a reasonable compromise mostly by accident. DD was having confidence issues jumping and needed something different. Ended up purchasing an imported jumper schoolmaster – partially on the premise he was quiet enough to dabble in low level hunters – and boarding/lessoning him with the dressage/eventing trainer I used to ride with (Trainer A). As it turned out, the horse was soooo much happier show jumping. And DD discovered that way of going felt much better to her, anyway. Trainer A’s niche is bringing along young horses. So once DD and the horse developed a solid 1+m game together and DD expressed an interest in attempting to climb the ranks, Trainer A passed them along to their own show jumping trainer (Trainer B).

Trainer B is probably way more trainer than we realistically need. (Like waaaaay more.) But I believe that’s the reason why it’s worked out great for showing so far. They don’t keep much of a home barn and clients don’t board with them. They’ll tell DD what shows they’re planning to attend in the next few weeks that will offer appropriate classes – feel free to meet them there if it suits.

DD did Upperville this year as her first foray into the big leagues. We live about 20 minutes away and our barn is even closer. I still took out a loan – I didn’t want to have to stand there calculating my cashflow every time I bought a bottle of water or a roll of vet wrap . It was one of the most exhausting weeks of my life. We were by ourselves, save for the happy coincidence of being on the same aisle with some people DD had met in Junior League. If you’d asked me beforehand if it would be almost impossible to pull off showing one horse at the lowest recognized level of a show at that level without hired help? I would’ve thought you were being a tad nutty.

Then day 2 brought an abrupt weather change, leaving me with the migraine from hell. DD’s friends from Junior League graciously included our horse in their night check , which was a huge help. I realized about two seconds after we arrived that I would need to take over all of the mental workload and much of the physical scut work if DD was to have a pray at preserving enough physical and mental energy to focus on riding intelligently. One of DD’s friends has already been lined up to help groom for next year.

Off-duty was no problem for the horse. He’d done this many times before and thrived on the predicable buzz of show life. And he loves any occasion where DD spends the whole day with him. He was happy as a clam; laying down in his stall to take long mid-day naps, standing with the patience of a saint for me to do his standing wraps, even tooling around the massive hacking field without offering to kill DD like he normally does when presented with the full glory of a Northern VA hunt country expanse (). In the ring was different. A consistently rock solid performer over big jumps at smaller shows; it was apparent that he was dealing with some confidence issues stepping back into rated competition. Arriving home he was so happy that I could hear his “Yahoooo! I’m home” neigh all the way up in the barn when the trailer turned into the mile long drive.

I’m not sure how the humans and horses that travel on the A/AA show circuit for weeks or months on end cope. 18 shows a year seems like too much to me. Even if not all are week long away shows. Watching the top barns at Upperville it was clear there was no way I could afford to do even two shows a year that way. Plus how do you progress in your own riding if the horse is gone with the trainer for weeks on end? What does the horse get out of it? At some point a reasonably safe amateur’s horse shouldn’t need constant trainer show milage to go nicely for the owner.

[2bayboys]

I’m in your region and the showing every weekend (one show Saturday, a different show Sunday) for the VHSA local association points is beyond crazy with some people. There was a particular competitor who did more than 60 one-day shows in the year in pursuit of those year-end points. I’ll sound old but it used to be that a horse show was an event we planned for weeks in advance and were beyond thrilled to attend. Now it’s just another Saturday.

[TBROCKS]

This is such an accurate and stark statement of why the horse farmette lifestyle is going belly up. I’m starting to feel very VERY fortunate that I bought my small acreage place and my tractor when I did (2011). .

[TBROCKS]

Oh my gosh THIS!!

[Cowboy_Girl]

Nothing compares to the high end cutting horse scene. You can literally fly in, catch a taxi to the show ring and step on to your warmed up horse, compete for 3 minutes, win, and leave.

[Belmont]

@Cowboy_Girl

Nothing compares to the high end cutting horse scene. You can literally fly in, catch a taxi to the show ring and step on to your warmed up horse, compete for 3 minutes, win, and leave.

This. One of the wildest things I have experienced in the cutting thus far is one of SOs clients paid $150k for a practice horse… That way he doesn’t wear out or give bad runs to his show horse when he decides to ride the week before a horse show. Trainer only rides the show horse at home.

[fivestrideline]

@Belmont

SOs clients paid $150k for a practice horse

The concept of practice horses makes sense to me but $150k??? I’ve got a ridiculously cowy TB I might let go for that After all it’s just a practice horse, no need to spend the big bucks

[blondewithchrome]

Because if you practice on a cheap horse you won’t know what to do when you get in the ring on your $400k horse wild to me, too!

[Foitin]

A rider from a nearby barn competed their $300k practice horse at indoors last year when their breathtaking top horse was still rehabbing. It just doesn’t quit in the hunters, though I wish it would!

[Plumcreek]

Once you have shown at a top level, mentally scaling down is hard. I choose to show at a top level in a less expensive but still challenging hunter venue, the AQHA circuit. The top hunters there can and do win at the regional USEF shows, and WEC, but not the WEF top level. There are many good AQHA hunter program trainers who are USEF refugees from the pressure scene you describe, and if you live in the eastern states, competition at local and large indoor shows like Ohio Congress and the World Championship Show are plentiful. Oh, and the top AQHA horses’ frame and movement are now exactly the same as USEF. Price point is half, in all categories.

[touchstone]

@Amberley

But remember this is a thread about someone who is literally afraid to tell someone that they are paying a lot of money how they want to spend their own money and their own free time going forward because of their anticipated anger. We’ve all seen this dynamic play out plenty of times. The question is how do people who are competent and in control of their lives otherwise get to this point? How do these relationships get so toxic and controlling and how do trainers feel entitled to their clients money and time and why do they feel free to bully them?

I honestly think it is very challenging because of the culture among professionals in this sport. Realistically, in many markets, the only way to find a trainer that is conveniently located near a major metro area and knowledgeable enough to help you attain a high level will probably be a controlling prima donna. I have certainly been in situations where I was horrified and knew better, but sort of took the mistreatment, because I knew my outside options were limited. Once you have the expensive animal, it really can be hard to put your foot down and leave a situation that is bad-but-not-totally-toxic, because where are you going to go?

OF COURSE there are good guys out there with high level operations in some markets, but not all. I have personally tried to gravitate towards smaller programs and lower-key facilities. But there are tradeoffs. For someone like the poster who wants to show in the big leagues for 16-18 weeks a year, it may be harder than it looks to find someone who can help her achieve that who doesn’t require some doormat behavior to keep the peace.

[Momateur]

Guys, I finally hung it up. I still troll on COTH boards because I will forever consider myself a horse person. But in real life, I sold my horse and washed my hands of all of it. No “off ramp” options looked attractive to me after riding and showing at a relatively high level. It’s been about nine months now. Do I miss it? Sort of. Do I question my decision? Not at all.

I could not continue to justify spending thousands upon thousands of dollars a month on myself while trying to raise a family, save for college tuition, and plan for eventual retirement. After 30+ years, the financial burden finally squashed the fun right out of it.

[phoenixrises]

The first time I did a cones course I thought I was going to die, I ended up having to just say well after X tree turn right and look for the next number. I ended up haivng to do a circle one time when I realized I had gone the wrong way. Oops. But oh so much fun!

[hillary_again]

@Momateur, I too “hung it up” through those years. I did not ride for 15 years while I was focusing on all of those other things, telling myself I would get back someday. At that 15 year point, I faced the reality: either get back or stop kidding myself. I found a way back, but never went back to showing much at all. I didn’t want to spend that ton of $ and time on it ever again. I’ve been back now for >20 years. I love riding at a general boarding barn and enjoy improving as a rider. Once a horse person, always a horse person - it’s a lifetime membership!

[Pehsness]

So true. Sometimes I DREAM of giving it up. But it’s never happening.

[Momateur]

Maybe. But there’s never been a harder time to be a re-rider. Let’s face it, the lesson horses are going away.

[Sunny_s_Mom]

Yeah, you know the answer. I’m sorry.

[RAyers]

Going all the way back to the the title of the thread. My lumbar spine is totally broken and I still ride so I like to think I am the epitome of a broke person. The MRI is not indicative of all the issues other than all the discs are bulging and there is endplate failure at L2.