What is a hard pass in a vet check?

IF I had enough money to buy and support another horse I would also avoid greys. I lucked out that my 2 greys did not develop melanoma, at least where I could see it.

I prefer bays, red bays especially. I also like brown horses, except they do tend to look a lot alike.

I never had a chestnut mare but I did own two chestnut geldings. Way back when a century or so ago I’ve read in books published then that said that ALL chestnut horses were super sensitive, almost exactly what people say chestnut TB mares are like in personality today.

Of course if I could afford a horse I would welcome a chestnut Arabian mare, well any type or color of Arabian. I would hesitate to say no Arab grey mares because that is what the Universe would send me if I got too dogmatic about it.

Hard pass for me? Kissing spine usually (that does depend on the horse), and the problems with the lower neck vertebrae (HARD no.)

I always dreamed of having a bay. I’ve had nothing but sorrels. I guess my current is a chestnut but pretty much the same thing.

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That is the reason I tell people to save face. But deep down, the idea of waking up earlier at shows to make a grey horse presentable makes me want to cry.

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I had a red roan and man, that horse was Always dirty, yellow, impossible to have him nice and clean, i would pass on red roans also. I have a chestnut mare with a bald face and she is super sensitive, her brother, a palomino, IS super super dull. I never thought that color could influence the personality

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oh, I do love red roans. My last (sorrel) mare was a bit roany. But she never had a good shine. That’s the one thing about the chestnuts - they can actually gleam with good nutrition and grooming.

I do admit to be being a bit biased against colour breeds. I don’t know if that’s a growing up in the AQHA world thing or what. And I know it’s nonsensical because colour doesn’t dictate athleticism.

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There are a lot of colored horses in the reining because of the gunner lines (Katie gun). There are known to bé very quiet and huge stoppers so very apreciated in reining, that is also why we see many of them

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@RAyers this:

No xray findings are guarantees, good or questionable. But if someone has had heataches dealing with Y issue in the past, they are being quite sensible in choosing not to take the risk that the presence of Y on xrays won’t develop into a serious problem in the future.

For me it’s hocks and neck, because I had horses with those issues. Both had to retire young, and were euthanized in their teens. Someone else is welcome to roll the dice on horses showing no issues with either finding, but I’m going to walk away.

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Yes, for sure, liké me, i had to retire all my navicular ones, could not make them sound in any way so i really look every horses feet now

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I’ve never dealt with it in my personal horses, but there is not one single symptomatic navicular horse that I’ve ever seen that I would call remotely sound - corrective shoeing, osphos - none of it worked.

Of course, nerving can work, but the ethics of that are so questionable to me that I don’t ever want to be facing that bridge to cross.

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Like many I’m sensitized to issues that I’ve experienced or watched close friends navigate. Feet, soft tissue injuries, and anything remotely neuro never seem to have any good outcomes. I’ve had ones who vetted pristine and were heartbreakers but there is some solace in feeling like I did my best with the information available.

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Yikes, I remember helping clean up the school horses for a schooling show when I was a kid. We had this wonderful strawberry roan large pony with lots of white (big blaze, all 4 legs white well above the knees/hocks, a big belly spot). It was so hard to get her white hairs white again! That was a wonderful pony; she was completely safe for beginners, but could do a 3 foot plus course with a balanced rider, and was a nice foxhunting type as well. Lollipop was her name.

As for the thread topic: no grays (melanoma). No major surgeries other than gelding. No barn- bound types. I would say no to navicular or past laminitis evidence, not sure about spine issues. Sensible is important!

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Vets are so quick to call any heel pain “navicular.”
Navicular could be a deal breaker for me if the horse was shod GREAT and still had reacted to testers and had crappy x rays.
Deal breakers for me are OCD’s, angular limb deformities (like a benched knee) and straight up bad quality feet. PSSM AND MYHM positive horses are a no for me too.
And history of soft tissue injuries.

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@RAyers - I want to copy your response here and send it out to a whole bunch of people on the west coast right now! ECVM has become a weird fad diagnosis and I have heard so many wild stories recently. I hate the word “malformation”, especially as more and more information seems to be showing that the majority of TBs and WBs have a malformation.

Most recently, I had a mare who I imported as a barely broke 4yo and showed through the 1.40m. She was meant to be a sales horse, but covid happened and that resulted in me keeping her longer than originally planned. In the last summer I had her, she packed my 15yo daughter around my kid’s first ever 1.40m classes beautifully.

Over 6 years of ownership, the mare was sound as a dollar and is built in a way that just lends itself to that (meaning my bodyworkers never had anything to say about her either - which is not the norm out of all of the horses I’ve had!). Mare has also always been the absolutely loveliest type - will jump every time always, with ears perked happily forward and soft-eyed, and never holds a grudge for rider error. Had full x-rays (including neck and back) done on her a little over a year ago and vet commented that the x-rays were beautiful with a couple of minor findings consistent with age/experience.

Ended up selling the mare this year. Mare gets in minor accident at new barn and is NQR afterwards (minor hind end lameness). New owner has new-to-area/new-to-horse vet evaluate the mare…though almost canceled because the mare was almost back to normal. But in the end thinks, “can’t hurt to have the new vet get a baseline on her.” Vet doesn’t have much to say upon examination. But then reviews the x-rays (from a year prior). Vet calls owner and says (in cliff notes form), “you need to put this horse down right now. She has ECVM, and I would feel better about riding a wobbler than your horse.” She (accurately) mentioned that it’s a highly controversial diagnosis, but was absolutely insistent that the horse needed to be put down immediately and implied that the new owner was cruel to keep her alive.

Thank god the new owner is a friend and called me before deciding anything - friend was utterly beside herself and devastated at the news. I helped connect her with a couple of other [very experienced] vets who were both HIGHLY CRITICAL of the vet’s “diagnosis” and disagreed with both the diagnosis and the plan for the horse. The second vet is a bodyworker and came out to work on the horse who I can happily report is back to 100%.

I get that ECVM is a thing and can cause problems. But this horse had a LONG history of soundness and was performing (and winning) at one of the highest levels of the sport…and not only winning, but packing around a kid who wasn’t “making” it happen. No lameness. No funny steps. No stopping. No painkillers (as in the horse didn’t even get bute at shows, let alone anything else to enhance comfort). Absolutely nothing funky ever in all the years I’d had her. Certainly none of the hallmarks of ECVM.

And sadly, I just heard from a trainer friend that the same vet convinced another acquaintance of mine to put down a horse that sounds strikingly similar to mine - a horse with a long history of soundness at a high level of competition and, most importantly, no symptoms. That owner is now suing the vet who did the original x-rays and “missed” the “diagnosis.”

I’m still absolutely blown away that a vet can seemingly arbitrarily decide that there is a “normal” horse spine and if a horse deviates from that…put it down! Right this minute! Nevermind that the horse might be bright-eyed, sound, and happy.

My point is that I have a hard time reading that a hard stop is “neck/back issues”. I understand not wanting to deal with kissing spine or some other particular diagnosis (especially if you’ve already had to deal with it before). But neck/back issues seem to be the new “it’s navicular!” answer when no one’s sure what “it” is.

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I totally agree with you, i ve had horses with back issues that i could manage and even ride and have a sport carreer on them. The only two horses that i could not bring back to soundness were the ones that had advanced navicular disease, this is my personal experience.

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There are a lot of things we manage with the horses I have in training that I admit we would not want to see on a vet check, and yet these horses are sound and working well.

We do have a few hard no’s though. My vet reviews rads for me and anything funky about the navicular is an absolute no for her, because they can be so hard to manage. Personally I am afraid of too elastic or dropped fetlocks and especially any with a history of suspensory injury.

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I’m jumping over from my horse buying discussion. Twice, I have turned down young horses who have been diagnosed with OCD. That’s hard no for me and vets agree. The sellers are disappointed and feel I should just do surgery.

This is off topic, but it seems the genetic factor is not the only reason for a horse developing OCD. Diet and nutritional deficiencies contribute. Maybe people who raise these foals are not paying attention to nutrition. I just don’t know.

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Why ocd? I thought that some of them do not brother them

That is rare. They almost always require surgery. Depending on the severity, future soundness is not guaranteed. It is a risk.

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