[QUOTE=NoDQhere;4002819]
The problem with the “Pepperoni” style exposure to dressage is that they will turn more people off from it than on to it. They are just so…unpleasant.[/QUOTE]
Holy CRAP YOU guys are who I am talking about!!! Hope all is well and how is Judy?? you rode western and now ride great Dressage!!! the ones in Rapid City. What a small world. And you are right no DQ where you guys are…
[QUOTE=wehrlegirl;4002008]
no pressure or asking to perform and she was fine ( of course knew all the Parelli tricks) … we got her and all hell broke loose to the point she could not handle any insistence to move forward on the lunge or contact with a bit and would flip over. Absolutely killer… I will never ever buy a horse that has had parelli training again- ever.[/QUOTE]
Same exact experiance as mine. Coincidence?!?!?!?!?!?!?:no:
I won’t ever buy another again either.
[QUOTE=Nightlace;3999408]
I personally have never heard Linda Parelli bash dressage. I have heard her bash abusive practices, some of which are used by some dressage competitors. Here I’m referring to rolkur, hyperflexion, draw reins, bigger bits, chambons, & other gadgets. While one might argue that such practices or gadgets are not abusive when used by skilled riders, I am personally concerned about the potential harm to horses, even by well-intentioned riders.[/QUOTE]
Pat is a shameless, egoistical show-off, but he’s also an excellent horseman. I’ve watched him ride horses (many horses) in open fields without a saddle or bridle and have total control of them. Meanwhile, I watched Olympic gold medal dressage riders who come off their horse when it give alittle crow-hop or who think a horse in a working gallop is “running off” with her :rolleyes:.
Linda – well, Linda never excited me particularly as a horsewoman, but she IS good at marketing. I’ve watched Pat’s video L-O-N-G before he came up with the ‘carrot-stick’ & ‘7 Games’ concept and it’s obvious to me that Linda was the one who came up with all this stuff (Pat always trained the same way, but I’m betting it was Linda who named all this stuff and systemized it…before Pat had a real tendency to ramble).
I’ve attended 3-4 Parelli exhibits over the years and use to visit their website regularly. Never once heard Linda bash dressage AS A SPORT – but both speak out against cruelty or roughness in any equine sport.
Personally, I think the kool-aid drinkers are the ones to look at the current top riders in dressage (and this includes the judges, I might add) as the end-all and be-all of the sport. To me, their riding goes against everything dressage should be…but that’s just me. We all have a right to our opinion, and apparently others do think as I do…
As for the constant accusations that everything is about money – well, these guys DO earn their living at this. There are lots of horse people who have their own saddles out, clothing lines, videos, etc. etc.
I attended one Parelli clinic (of course, not with PP himself – who can afford that? it was one of his disciples…) and was told I would do better with a PP rope halter, PP lead rope, PP carrot stick, etc. But I am NOT a kool-aid drinker and told him point blank that if this system required all these specific gadgets, then it wasn’t much of a system.
But see, that’s how HE gets part of his income – by selling stuff.
In the end, you will always have people who look at things fairly and make up their own mind, and those who go with their emotions first & foremost OR what others say. Same with this issue.
I will say that having a dressage icon like WAZ work with the Parellis is really frosting alot of DQ’s hindquarters…and personally I think it’s funny as hell.:lol:
Sort of like all the people who FIRST declared what a saint that “schoolmaster” horse Linda was riding in her WAZ lesson was…then upon finding out the horse was Remmer, who has been PP trained almost since Day One, they all managed to find all sorts of faults with him.
Laughed my a$$ off…talk about Kool-Aid!! :winkgrin:
—"I’ve attended 3-4 Parelli exhibits over the years and use to visit their website regularly. Never once heard Linda bash dressage AS A SPORT "—
Maybe you were not paying attention, or drinking too much Kool-Aide right then?
Really, both P’s bashed any kind of English riding for long and repeated stretches as they were talking to their audiences, as part of joking and in a rather crass, rude and insulting way, for professionals talking about other professionals.:no:
That was uncalled for and so thought several others that heard it just as I did.
Sorry, you can’t change history, it happened and too many were there to tell about it.
I am glad to hear that some say they don’t do that any more, although I would want to hear that also from those that are not blinded by the hype.
I said the I thought horse’s work looked very bad, before I had any idea who trained him or how. It did look bad to me, awful, in fact.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;4003170]
I will say that having a dressage icon like WAZ work with the Parellis is really frosting alot of DQ’s hindquarters…and personally I think it’s funny as hell.:lol:[/QUOTE]
Actually, it is rather pathetic…and sad…
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;4003170]Sort of like all the people who FIRST declared what a saint that “schoolmaster” horse Linda was riding in her WAZ lesson was…then upon finding out the horse was Remmer, who has been PP trained almost since Day One, they all managed to find all sorts of faults with him.[/QUOTE] Linda has been “training” that horse “forever”, he should be able to do “something”, dontchathink??? :lol: He is bred to be a “dressage” horse after all. However, LP is hardly riding him well.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;4003170]Laughed my a$$ off…talk about Kool-Aid!! :winkgrin:[/QUOTE] Be careful…I’ve heard it is easy to choke on one’s kool-aid when one laughs ;).
WAZ occasionally posts on TOB. You can always go over there and ask him what he hopes to accomplish with the P’s. He’ll answer.:yes:
And y’all will even believe it.
[QUOTE=Nightlace;3999408]
I personally have never heard Linda Parelli bash dressage. I have heard her bash abusive practices, some of which are used by some dressage competitors. [/QUOTE]
March 5, 2005 Silver Spurs Arena, Kissimmee Florida
It was Pat who spoke negatively about dressage, all dressage. I had free tickets, knew nothing about them and figured I would check it out. The comments were so negative I really felt like if the audience found out I rode dressage they would come after me with pitchforks and torches. I didn’t return the next day.
Is there an archive of these symposiums on tape?
I’m seconding DGRH, this thread is great fun from a lurker’s POV!
Please, carry on!
Oh wait, lightbulb moment!
What if the annoying too-loud info-mercial guy did the man-bra commercial?
“WAZ occasionally posts on TOB. You can always go over there and ask him what he hopes to accomplish with the P’s. He’ll answer.”
Bullhockey. I have asked countless times why he condones the “Cradle Bridle” and even has Linda riding with one and asked why he promotes dressage in this God Awful Contraption.
He side passed that question like the plague.
He is a sell out and the Parelli’s are wack jobs.
Classical dressage does not disparage side reins, in fact, side reins are very much a part of classical dressage.
If the trainers that LP was turning to for help with her two difficult OTTB were advising her to use “big” (I presume you mean harsh) bits and tie downs, they were not “dressage oriented”. They were just bad.
Waz Speaks About the P’s
No mention about the cradle bridle or their method of loading by galloping on a trailer.
They seem to be focusing on the handicapped market as well as the “frustrated” Dressager market.
Anyway, there is a new “P+Waz” DVD coming out…
Dear BB friends,
I am very sad to say, that people think I am working with the Parelli’s because of the money.
Please allow me to attach some parts of a letter to Col. von Ziegner. From this letter you can recognize the true reason of my partnership with the Parelli’s.
I wrote a similar letter to Mrs. Pochhammer, the editor of the best known German horse magazine “St. Georg”.
This should be a short information about the work the Parelli’s do for BB friends who are not familiar with Parelli’s work.
“Dear Albrecht,
I am very pleased that I was able to get the Parellis and you together via phone.
My motivation to work with them was their deep and honest love for our horses. Their students have the opportunity to study in the USA, England and Australia. They can brush up on their skills in NHS in many seminars.
In the USA the winter training camp is located in Florida, the summer location is in Colorado. Parelli students are fully acknowledged by the University of Colorado.
At both facilities students are trained all year round in monthly seminars.
In the classroom the students are shown as to how horses respond to different stimuli in their environment. They are taught everything they need to know, about the welfare and care for their horses.
Guest speakers like veterinarians , massage therapists, chiropractor, farriers and other experts are there to educate the students.
At the large “play grounds” students and their horses are exposed to all kinds of natural and artificial obstacles . Some round pens, in which the horses are trained at liberty are used to playfully establish a partnership of trust and respect.
In addition they have a choice of various fairly constructed obstacles such as water, bridges , large rubber balls and a selection of trailers with different loading ramps , where they can introduce the horses to all these strange objects.
The horses learn to be loaded on to trailers without any pressure.
Using artificial horses that move in all directions , the students are prepared for the horses natural movement. Only after this training are they allowed to ride their horses with only a halter , no bits, and a couple of short leads. Practicing riding without a saddle gives the students an excellent sense of balance. They all ride with independent hands.
All this is accomplished without pressure. The trust is already established at birth.
Playfully a deep relationship is established with the foals. It is nice to see how easily the foals accept the humans as a play partner, leader and member of the herd.
[b]Pat and Linda are trying to find ways to re-connect frustrated Dressage riders who have turned their back to the harsh and sometimes brutal training methods that we are currently experiencing in the modern Dressage competitions.
You used the term “straight jacket “ for what the FEI so casually calls “hyper flexion”
They came up with the idea that during their “Celebration Events “ with up to 6000 viewers and followers of the NHS should witness how insecure horses in a large arena are able to manage all their individual tasks willingly , at liberty and without a saddle[/b].
They seem to understand the smallest signals.
Wouldn’t this be a very good opportunity to demonstrate a Dressage lesson with Linda and her mount “Remmer” with the lightest and balanced aids up to the highest level. The horse should be a trusting and equal partner.
Lauren Barwick of Canada is studying with the Parellis NHS from her electric scooter.
She is paralyzed from the waist down.She is sponsored by the Parellis.
Every second month I spend 5 days at the Parellis to coach Pat, Linda, and Pat’s son Caton . He is disabled on the right part of his body but he is very determined not to let this hinder him to take riding lessons.
Just like Lauren, who does not only ride experienced horses but young ones as well. Pat will occasionally get into the saddle to help her horses.
At the Paralympics in Bejing in 2008 she won a Silver – and Gold medal with her horse Maile.
In the future we will jointly, the Parelli’s and I publish a book and DVD titled ” : The bridge between NHS and Classical Dressage “
We want to demonstrate that both training methods can be mutually beneficial.
Classical Dressage should be the goal of NHS for every rider.
The Parellis and I hope that you , your wife , Xenophon members and Dressage riders can witness what kind of artists the Parellis , their students and their horses – stallions and mares are. Knowing in what state some of these abused animals came to the Parellis , it is very impressive to see them emerge again during their demonstrations.
I am now coming to the end although I could tell you a lot more about the Parellis and their NHS. They will send you their DVD and additional material.
P.S.
There is a young lady in Leipzig who has trained her Frisian in NHS ,he is following her alongside her electric wheel chair doing “a.tempi ‘ changes, shoulder-in , Pirouettes ,
Passage and more.”
gee I wonder who wrote that letter? Intro part addressed to BB friends sounds like WAZ but the BS letter does not. If they want it to sound like WAZ they need to work on that a little more.
I bet the O’Connors signed some glowing letters during their brief Love In that make them blush now. Notice how there is never any mention of that fantastic association anymore from either party.:o
Well, I’m a frustrated dressage rider, but that’s because as I learn, I realize how much more there is to learn, and how much harder I have to work. But then…far from harsh and brutal, our training is peaceful - if that makes sense. My trainer has made it clear that our goal is to leave the work session with the horse happy, relaxed, in better physical condition, and seeking more (and that works for the rider as well).
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that brutal methods will not result in a solid partnership and release from tension. Just as it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that playing the games as depicted a la Parelli is not going to result in a solid partnership and release from tension.
I would think that it would take a true DRESSAGE trainer "to find ways to re-connect frustrated Dressage riders who have turned their back to the harsh and sometimes brutal training methods that we are currently experiencing in the modern Dressage competitions." Not two people who have little knowledge or respect for the discipline.
So. Are there any of us out there willing "to find ways to re-connect frustrated Parelli-ites who have turned their back to the harsh and sometimes brutal training methods that they are currently experiencing in the modern Natural Horsemanship?"
[QUOTE=jazzrider;4002651]
You really just need to do a search on “Parelli” here on COTH. There is no koolaid here. Just a lot of red wine and some tequila! :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
I’m VERY happy to see that!
There was another thread on COTH about the teaming-up of Cesar Milan/Dog Whisperer with PP for one of the Dog Whisperer shows. I finally saw the episode for myself last night (asked my boyfriend to DVR it for me); we both just sat shaking our heads through most of it. Scariest part was seeing all of these “instructors” at a riding-for-the-disabled program who really didn’t seem to know much of anything about basic riding, horse handling, transitions, etc. Maybe it was just the way the show was edited. . .otherwise, I can certainly see how people like that would be “amazed” by PP’s infinite knowledge.
And don’t get me started on Cesar’s cowboy hat, or non-stop gushing about what an amazing man PP is. By the end of that segment, every time I saw the two of them walking together I was expecting to see them holding hands or something. :lol:
The Parellis and I hope that you , your wife , Xenophon members and Dressage riders can witness what kind of artists the Parellis , their students and their horses – stallions and mares are. Knowing in what state some of these abused animals came to the Parellis , it is very impressive to see them emerge again during their demonstrations.
sigh Money is such a wonderful motivator.
As much as WAZ is a sweet old man, I have personally LISTENED to the silly Parelli “Dressage is hurtful and awful”… and Im sorry Mr. Walter, but they did not clarify what TYPE of dressage, it was dressage is general. They went out of their way to bash our sport that we have dedicated our life too.
I have also listened to that silly Mr. Parelli, who bashed dressage on live TV to millions.
I do think WAZ efforts to help them is still based on his classical training, but its also based on the increase bank account as well. I dont see WAZ out there doing new training tapes, books and such doing the 7 goofy games by the Parellians! rolling eyes
I think its a shame that someone who over the years (Parelli) was going around telling MILLIONS of ppl how bad dressage was (sorry, but no qualifier was put on it on type (Rolkur, etc)… and now they are using it as a marketing ploy to get more ppl in their silly cult.
Relationships and respect from a horse comes in many different forms and having raised babies, broke tons of horses, stood multi stallions, and retrained some pretty damn nasty SOB’s over the years, the silly 7 games have never been needed.
WAZ if you feel the need to play with the Parelli’s then that is your perogative, but its a shame you support them after the years of them bashing our sport and turning the “unkowners” away from our sport due to lack of true knowledge that dressage should NOT hurt and is not forceful, but… they left that part out… rolling eyes.
Carry on, money drives…
Good Catch
:lol:
I’ve lost respect for WAZ. So sad.
[QUOTE=JollyBadger;4004303]
I’m VERY happy to see that!
There was another thread on COTH about the teaming-up of Cesar Milan/Dog Whisperer with PP for one of the Dog Whisperer shows. I finally saw the episode for myself last night (asked my boyfriend to DVR it for me); we both just sat shaking our heads through most of it. Scariest part was seeing all of these “instructors” at a riding-for-the-disabled program who really didn’t seem to know much of anything about basic riding, horse handling, transitions, etc. Maybe it was just the way the show was edited. . .otherwise, I can certainly see how people like that would be “amazed” by PP’s infinite knowledge.
And don’t get me started on Cesar’s cowboy hat, or non-stop gushing about what an amazing man PP is. By the end of that segment, every time I saw the two of them walking together I was expecting to see them holding hands or something. :lol:[/QUOTE]
:lol: You are right. They looked really … ummm … chummy. Although I thought Cesar looked cute in that hat.
I commented elsewhere about Pat P inadvertently blocking the mare from moving forward (and blaming her). But failed to mention the amazingly clue-less manager and her sidewalker/volunteers. Woooeeeey. A therapeutic riding non-profit rented one of the arenas at my barn for several years. Those people knew horses. The people on that show did not have clue 1.
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