What is Capsaicin?

[QUOTE=ridgeback;3461283]
Trouble admitting you are wrong:lol::lol: Please explain to me what is wrong? Several lame dressage horses no dressage horses busted for dobing, showjumpers often busted for doping and many dressage horses could have used a little help since they were LAME…hmmm nope not wrong…[/QUOTE]

Your logic is just astonishing.

By the way, you might research drug violations that have occurred in international dressage, one in particular involving Rusty and Ulla Salzberger that was due to the use of a steroid cream on the horse’s … well, just google it.

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3461825]
Your logic is just astonishing.

By the way, you might research drug violations that have occurred in international dressage, one in particular involving Rusty and Ulla Salzberger that was due to the use of a steroid cream on the horse’s … well, just google it.[/QUOTE]

YankeeLawyer - Ridgeback is full of herself isn’t she?
I didn’t even go back and read her responses to what I wrote in the McLain thread yesterday cause it wasn’t even worth it.

This is all so sad that these guys were eliminated…who knows what happend whether it was a mistake or not it’s still unfortunate!
Such a crazy mistake to be had at such a high level, but it just goes to show nothing is perfect.

I really don’t know what happened, apparently someone got tested and DQ’d . . . I was just kind of shocked to see an entire capsaicin thread on the Olympic board so I went clicky-clicky . . .

I don’t know when USEF started testing for it but I used the Equi-Block stuff years ago, I think when it first came out, on a guy with crappy hocks. It made all the difference in the WORLD, combined with his normal adequan he was a completely different, and much happier horse. It was that obvious.

We slapped it in before each ride and massaged it in thoroughly, and from this experience I can’t imagine the amounts you would have to apply to use it as a ‘natural poling’ technique. I would think the skin would blister, and thus it would be quite obvious, before any real ‘sting’ from a rail would make a lasting impression on a 1200 lb animal. My horse did not show skin sensitivity to it in the least.

I tend to agree with revisiting the no foreign substance rule. I have to believe those gymnasts, track stars, weight lifters, etc are downing bottles of aspirin and advil at these games- that’s not illegal correct? Then why must our horses be denied these basic comforts at the highest level of competition in the world???

Out of curiousity I started looking around at the US Anti Doping Agency’s reference section.

Capsaicin is allowed for track and field athletes, weightlifters, and gymnasts. (and for the human part of the equestrian team, apparently)

Capsaicin has to be permitted for humans because it’s a significant part of half the world’s cuisines - basically all food traditions not originating from the US or Europe contain capsaicin.

I personally think it is absurd to consider it a banned substance unless the horse shows signs of blistering or irritation. Is rubbing salsa on a horse performance enhancing?

It can have some beneficial effect for pain relief - just as ice can.

Just an FYI – whichever vet said that capsaicin is never given orally, but only applied topically is WRONG. It is actually found in a number of feed supplements. For example, anything that contains paprika has capsaicin. That includes most coat enhancers (including Black as Knight – which I am sure some posters here use) as well as straight paprika.

Just because it’s on the prohibited list doesn’t mean that it can be detected in all manners of administration.

Here’s an article that discusses testing for capsaicin.

http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/shows/2008/08og/pr_doping.html

"The substance quickly vaporizes afterwards, which makes this doping very hard to detect.
However, the Hong Kong Jockey Club houses one of the best doping laboratories in the world, run by Dr. Terence Wan, and it is able to detect capsaicin easily and quickly. "

Whilst I would agree that this could be an “honest mistake,” I’ve got to wonder about the fact that here am I, a lowly first level dressage rider in the back woods of the USA, knowing that it it is a banned substance, but apparently, those competing/grooming/team managing at the highest level letting it slip through the net.

As to whether it works as a soring product, I would guess it depends on the strength at which it is applied–Equiblock is probalby carefully formulated not to sting that much, lest innocent appliers get their heads kicked off and sue the manufacturer. Whereas a stronger solution could certainly sore–and it would depend on the horse too (speaking as someone who accidentally peeled her horse’s back with diluted Bigeloil…)

What’s interesting to me about paprika creating positive tests is that to my palate, paprika isn’t even spicy. The coat products want paprika not for the capsaicin but for its deep pigments, so they would use the mildest paprikas (you can buy sharp, spicy paprikas, but most Americans are familiar with the mild edition) possible.

That suggests to me that they can detect less than salsa-level capsaicin.

Some numbers: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale )
pure capsaicin (definitely an irritant and inappropriate for use anywhere near horses): 16,000,000 Scoville Units
Habanero peppers: 100,000 - 350,000 Scoville Units - about the hottest humans would eat
Jalapeño peppers: ~ 4000 Scoville Units
Anaheim peppers: ~ 500-2500 Scoville Units
Paprika: ~ 150 Scoville Units
Bell Pepper: 0 Scoville Units

Now, that doesn’t address how much was in these particular horses, but all of their legs were examined prior to competition, so we know there was no blistering or irritation.

It is if there are hot chili peppers in the recipe. The issue is the hypersensitization. Chemical rapping, if you will.

Which is pretty sucky, but is there any way at all to prove how or why it was used? How much of it needs to be in the horse for it to test, and is there a way to determine purpose by looking at how much is in the horse’s system? Are they saying anything about how much was in these particular horses?

I don’t necessarily think it was a mistake or innocent thing, but it’s just such a common thing around barns I can see how it is possible (even in a strictly controlled setting).

I guess I’m just asking if there is any way to test/see the difference between someone who used it therapeutically as a liniment for sore muscles/joints vs. someone using it for “soring” type purposes. And all these horses wear boots, so if it was acting as an irritant couldn’t that create some real ridability issues?

I’m a total naive bumpkin in the area of performance enhancement, so these are honest questions, not argumentative ones (in case anyone is reading in a tone that isn’t intended)

interesting stuff, poltroon. I too have my doubts about why you would try to get away with using capsaicin for making legs sensitive in competition where you know you will be tested. If they examine boots/legs before that means you have to apply it, let it sink in, wash it off enough so there is no visible trace and head to the schooling area. Then you have to hope it is still working in the irritant phase before you finish your schooling and rounds, because then it starts to go the opposite way for effect. Then you have to hope it doesn’t test? And who knows how long it lasts on horses, but the hot burning effect doesn’t last that long in humans, so it’s hard to see how the timing works.

It’s harder still to see a country like Germany taking so much as a chance considering they were favored for gold AND lost their lat one to what basically amounted as miscommunication with no intent to gain an advantage. Ditto for Ireland. Their last olympic visit was not pleasant either. If nothing else these are two countries who have a serious motivation to mind their Ps and Qs.

However I can see it being a useful tool to school a horse oh, say the last school BEFORE the competition starts, and believe that a topical cream put on a horse then thoroughly washed off would not test. I’m thinking the Americans who have a few more years’ experience with the more sensitive test wouldn’t be that foolish.

But all things considered, I find the idea that it was an unknown substance in a liniment (bigeloil) or in a hoof packing that went transdermal thanks to an abrasion on the coronet band (if you’ve ever used magic cushion it oozes) or even a deep cleft/thrush in the frog to be just as likely or even considerably more likely a culprit. There are too many “normal” daily applications of this substance, which could be addressed by permitted thresholds.

Until this thread, I didn’t realize it was in bigeloil.

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3462109]
Just an FYI – whichever vet said that capsaicin is never given orally, but only applied topically is WRONG. It is actually found in a number of feed supplements. For example, anything that contains paprika has capsaicin. That includes most coat enhancers (including Black as Knight – which I am sure some posters here use) as well as straight paprika.[/QUOTE]

So, as someone who is struggling to get their muttly dark bay yearling looking halfway show-shape - and putting a spoon of paprika in his nightly feed - how soon before show dates should I cease and desist with this unconscionable doping to avoid the dreaded drug-testing positive? I’d hate to lose a silly ribbon won in an in-hand DSHB class because my colt tested positive for PAPRIKA, fer cryin’ out loud…

I mean, come on now… this whole “doping” thing is way past common sense. I remember a case of a positive that was eventually traced to poppyseed muffins… groom loved to have poppyseed muffins for breakfast, and always shared them with the horse. Horse tested positive for opiates…

on the label it is referred to as “Capsicum Tincture”

And in all the stuff you spray on bandages to keep a horse from chewing them.

From what I have read, it was found in the blood, not thermography (or whatever FEI uses to check for hypersensitization). What I don’t know is how long traces would remain in the blood.

This is gonna be interesting, that’s for sure, considering how many common stable products contain it and considering there are legitimate uses for this product.

I think, without knowing the concentration, it’s really hard to assume the substance was used for soring/manual rapping. Even straight chili powder, applied to a bare leg wouldn’t really string that much unless the horse had cuts on his legs. In which case-- alcohol or a number of other really basic substances would sting just as much and give you the same effect without the risk of testing. It just doesn’t seem logical to me. If you wanted to do some chemical rapping, there are other ways to do it that would be easier/more discreet. I just can’t see someone slathering and slathering their horse with Bigeoil for the stinging effect, someone would notice/report them.

Absolutely. The people who do Reitsport have a color-enhancing one as well which also contains it.

[QUOTE=AdAblurr02;3462320]
So, as someone who is struggling to get their muttly dark bay yearling looking halfway show-shape - and putting a spoon of paprika in his nightly feed - how soon before show dates should I cease and desist with this unconscionable doping to avoid the dreaded drug-testing positive? I’d hate to lose a silly ribbon won in an in-hand DSHB class because my colt tested positive for PAPRIKA, fer cryin’ out loud…[/QUOTE]

I have been told you have to stop at least 9 days before showing but DO consult with your vet as to that. I do not give anything containing paprika to my show horses because it is just not worth the risk to me. (In fact, the only reason I am so familiar with capsaicin is I do research the ingredients in all our supps and I was surprised to find out that several contained paprika, and that parika in turn contains capsaicin).

If it was in the horses’ bloodstream, I will bet you that in at least some of the cases it was an ingredient in a supp or feed, and the riders/owners/grooms may very well not have known that. For one thing, not all supps have a comprehensive list of ingredients. And, while capsaicin is listed as a prohibited substance, things like paprika are not. So unless you are very familiar with all the possible things that capsaicin can turn up in, the ingredients lists may be fairly useless.

[QUOTE=AdAblurr02;3462320]
I remember a case of a positive that was eventually traced to poppyseed muffins… groom loved to have poppyseed muffins for breakfast, and always shared them with the horse. Horse tested positive for opiates…[/QUOTE]

Hey Ridgeback - -this must be a complete lie, as we know a groom would never do such a thing.