What is "good hay"?

[anon40672407]

@Spudsmyguy

An inferior quality hay but otherwise okay, should not cause colic. It won’t have the nutritional value of a good quality hay and horses will rifle through it looking for the best tasting parts.

One thing humans tend to do is conflate “good” (something) (in this case, “good hay”) with dense nutrition. (lots of protein, lots of carbs, per pound).

Horses aren’t built to eat dense feed. Their systems do not function well on dense feed. They need lots of roughage along with their nutrition. It isn’t “more efficient” thing, to feed a horse a small amount of highly nutritious feed and less pass-thru fibre. If you do that, you are MORE likely to produce colic.

Perhaps you are well aware, I don’t know. Just another country heard from.

[Scribbler]

@anon40672407

@Spudsmyguy

An inferior quality hay but otherwise okay, should not cause colic. It won’t have the nutritional value of a good quality hay and horses will rifle through it looking for the best tasting parts.

One thing humans tend to do is conflate “good” (something) (in this case, “good hay”) with dense nutrition. (lots of protein, lots of carbs, per pound).

Horses aren’t built to eat dense feed. Their systems do not function well on dense feed. They need lots of roughage along with their nutrition. It isn’t “more efficient” thing, to feed a horse a small amount of highly nutritious feed and less pass-thru fibre. If you do that, you are MORE likely to produce colic.

Perhaps you are well aware, I don’t know. Just another country heard from.

Oh I assumed Spuds was talking about the kind of “local” grass hay that’s really common where I am in the PNW.) You can end up with really twiggy hay with super low protein, like way under 5 per cent, no minerals to speak of. Your horses will look a little sad after a year of that, if you aren’t supplementing significantly. If you are generous with hay they will leave behind the really twiggy parts of the stems. But they won’t colic. You can have low nutrition hay that is “good hay,” clean sweet smelling dust free no dead mice, etc.

Interestingly our twiggy low protein hay can also be 25 % NSC which is kind of shocking.

[PintoPony]

If there are any agriculture fairs near you, go to them. Every fair I’ve ever been to has people from various agricultural associations at them and can provide information on crops grown in your area.
Here in PA this includes Co-operative Extension, PA Dept of Agriculture, etc.

Plus, many ag fairs have competitions for hay so you can get a chance to look at (hopefully)nice examples of various types/species of hay that grow in your area

[wsmoak]

@modifiedequitation

NEVER, ever, ever feed any horse a bale of hay that has mold. It can cause colic and many other issues.

This needs qualification. Yucky black mold throughout the bale is a no-go. But the floaty white mold we get in the humid southeast is less of an issue. I used to throw out any bale that even had a hint of anything imperfect. Then we had those bad drought years where hay was hard to find. My checkbook was suffering. And I figured out that the white mold mostly on the outside of bales is 1. more of a problem if they breathe it in than eat it, and 2. can be ‘rinsed off’ fairly easily.

So you can be horrified and say that you would never do this, but the folks in the Texas drought were feeding what they could get, and I learned from them that horses are not going to die if they hay isn’t perfect. I’ve since built a better hay storage building (insulated!) and this is less of a problem, but I’m not opposed to a brief soak/rinse if a bale is questionable. It gets more water into them as a bonus.

[frugalannie]

Quick comment about “green” hay. There have been hay suppliers around us here in New England who provide very green hay. It’s quite pretty! But horse that get used to eating it won’t eat other hay because he green color is preserved by spraying the hay with citric acid. Once the horses get used to the taste, it takes a while for them to switch back to untreated hay.

[JB]

@wsmoak

So you can be horrified and say that you would never do this, but the folks in the Texas drought were feeding what they could get, and I learned from them that horses are not going to die if they hay isn’t perfect.

Same. Not all mold is created equal, and while not ideal, the light floaty stuff is usually not an issue especially when treated like you described.

@frugalannie

But horse that get used to eating it won’t eat other hay because he green color is preserved by spraying the hay with citric acid.

Citric acid, or proprionic acid?

[RhythmNCruise]

What is “good hay” will also depend on the horse. My gelding cannot eat coastal bermuda…even “good” coastal bermuda. Green, clean, sweet-smelling, “pretty” coastal bermuda will cause an impaction in him. Other horses can eat it just fine.

My late gelding couldn’t eat anything stemmy. He had diarrhea/FFWS on stemmy hay during the second half of his life (and he still had great teeth). He had to eat soaked cubes/pellets.

The mare at our barn has to have hay that is tested for low NSC and that has to still be soaked. She’s metabolic/IR and we have to be careful with her.

But basically, as long as the horses eat it well, look good on it, and it isn’t causing them any health issues like the ones listed above, I consider it “good hay”. Timothy and orchard are the go-to hays for our barn. We have a mix of these two now, and our horses outright rejected a bale from this latest load. Would not eat it. Next bale? Ate with gusto. It was hard to see much difference between to two bales, but the rejected one was slightly “crunchier” and dryer. Didn’t smell bad to me, but who knows. Our horses are well-fed enough that they can be picky.

[frugalannie]

@JB

Citric acid, or proprionic acid?

I’ve always been told citric acid, but I never bought that hay or spoke with the source, so I can’t say more than that. Does proprionic acid impart a taste?

[candyappy]

@JB

This is kind of the best generic answer there is. Barring a forage analysis, that’s the best you can do.

I will say that even that hay can be nutrient deficient and/or unbalanced to the point it really needs fortification. What keeps a horse in good body weight, isn’t necessarily what keeps him optimally healthy

Looks - green, dry, not (overly) dusty, NO mold, smells fresh not musty, no toxic plants mixed in.

I have been lucky I guess that I have never had a horse not do well on any hay we have fed. Even my mare who is on the threshold of being metabolic ( if not carefully managed) does well on our hay and I have never tested it.

Makes it easy when I am the one feeding every day and can adjust amounts as needed to keep her weight in line. I realize those in a boarding situation or buying hay from different sources may have a harder time finding good hay.

[candyappy]

@wsmoak

This needs qualification. Yucky black mold throughout the bale is a no-go. But the floaty white mold we get in the humid southeast is less of an issue.

Mold is mold. No matter if it is black or white. Feeding white moldy hay ( even if you shake the flake out) puts your horse at risk for breathing related issues. Even dusty bales that may not " look " moldy but have that " tacky feeling" when you handle it is best suited for the compost pile.

Most likely had a wet plug or part in the windrow when baled. We are humid here and the only time I have seen mold is when it was baled with too much moisture.

[trubandloki]

@candyappy

Mold is mold. No matter if it is black or white. Feeding white moldy hay ( even if you shake the flake out) puts your horse at risk for breathing related issues. Even dusty bales that may not " look " moldy but have that " tacky feeling" when you handle it is best suited for the compost pile.

Most likely had a wet plug or part in the windrow when baled. We are humid here and the only time I have seen mold is when it was baled with too much moisture.

Feel lucky that your humidity does not cause what they are talking about then.

Making blanket statements that if their world is not like your world they must be doing it wrong does not make it fact.

No one denies that no floating particles is the absolute best.

@wsmoak talked about soaking the hay.

[candyappy]

@trubandloki

Feel lucky that your humidity does not cause what they are talking about then.

Making blanket statements that if their world is not like your world they must be doing it wrong does not make it fact.

I just don’t agree that a dry bale of hay will get moldy because of humidity in the air. Our humidity is equal to anyone else in the good old USA.

If stored directly on the ground and allowed to soak up wetness( square bales) due to humidity making it wet-- I have had it myself but have never seen a bale that was baled at correct moisture and stored properly mold. Not even at extremely high humidity.

I wouldn’t feed moldy hay . Soaking or not but that is just me. If people have success doing it their way that is their business.

[trubandloki]

@candyappy

I just don’t agree that a dry bale of hay will get moldy because of humidity in the air. Our humidity is equal to anyone else in the good old USA.

Not inside. It does not get moldy inside. It gets a light coating of something mold like on the outside that you can not really see until you touch it.

I have seen it happen. Properly stored dry hay.

I am sorry you do not believe it.

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

@candyappy

I just don’t agree that a dry bale of hay will get moldy because of humidity in the air. Our humidity is equal to anyone else in the good old USA.

Not inside. It does not get moldy inside. It gets a light coating of something mold like on the outside that you can not really see until you touch it.

I have seen it happen. Properly stored dry hay.

I am sorry you do not believe it.

Yes this absolutely happens here in the PNW. A very light dust on the very top of exposed edges, but perfect and sweet inside. Just like a ball cap left hanging in the barn will mildew.

[SusanO]

It is extremely humid here and in the summer time we can get mold ( black, white, whatever on the outside of the bales. If it is just on the outside I do not worry but if it has permeated the whole bale then it is not good to feed. That is why I buy just enough hay in the spring to get me into the fall when the air is drier and cooler. And why I like to buy the 3x3’s and 3x4’s since they have less surface area. Especially if they are situated on my trailer so they are pushed next to each other with less exposed surfaces. I would LOVE to get all my hay from the first cutting in Tennessee in May because it would be a lot cheaper and the quality can be pretty high. However I would end up with moldy hay keeping it for 12 months. Western hay seems to keep longer - maybe because the moisture level is so low when they bale. Even it will look a little rough on the outside after a few wet months but the inside still is green and smells great and very palatable.

So good hay smells sweet and is palatable to the horses. You can feed stemmy hay but it usually ends up as bedding with my crew. The biggest challenge here in the southeast is getting hay that got cured with a low moisture level due to summer time weather. Part of the reason I no longer feed bermuda hay. By the time it is ready to cut the weather does not cooperate. I don’t care how long you leave hay on the ground it won’t cure right in high humidity. And it can rain every day or two if you are making hay.

[Weezer]

Ok, you might all think I’m crazy, but here goes…in addition to nutritional analysis and proper cutting and baling, I think “mouth feel” is also important. I’ll take a piece or two and put them fully in my mouth and chew on them a bit. If they poke my tongue or cheeks hard rather than bending fairly easily, it’s too stemmy or too sun bleached. On the occasions when I have brought home hay that didn’t pass the mouth feel test, my horses would not eat it.

[erinmeri]

@Scribbler

Second, all hay should be dry, sweet smelling, and free of dead mummified rabbits. It should be dry before being baled so it does not heat up inside and spontaneously combust.

Very good guidance but have to say the above bolded made me laugh!

I have one thing to add/ask: free from noxious weeds sounds like the ideal, but I have found that some batches contain things that are scary… and it’s my understanding that it is is almost impossible to entirely remove said things. (Milkweed for example). Is that true? Horses do tend to eat around them, but mine had a nasty reaction that scared the daylights out of me!!!

[erinmeri]

One more thing to add: I live in a relatively humid area (NYC Tri-State), and while I might not have as big an issue with mold as people in the Deep South or PNW, it is a concern. I also board, but I do pay a lot of attention to the quality of my horse’s hay. She is asthmatic and has had two bouts of EIPH. While I also worry about allergies with regards to what is in the hay contributing, I haven’t been able to do testing (supply chain!).

That said: We (my IM vet, my trainer and my barn manager and I) fret a LOT about mold. My mare’s hay is soaked (not just rinsed), and while that may mitigate issues about surface “floaty” mold, THAT makes us worry about mold as well (even though she eats out of a slow feed net for 90% of her meals - we dump the remains on the ground). Mold needs moisture, warmth, and organics to grow. We can’t control for that if we are soaking it.

So, I may be in the minority here, but I wouldn’t be pleased with bales that have “surface” mold… no matter the color.

Also, I have a degree in medical microbiology, so I am not a “noob” when it comes to mold.

Just my two cents…

[house]

I have to say that I would probably wouldn’t feed a bale that was totally molded but I free feed hay, and don’t mind feeding hat that has some mold in it. Horses that are not ravenous will not eat mold they typically throw it to the side. That said horses that get fed “meals” are conditioned to eat what you put in front of them. I think many people over state the “danger” of moldy hay, but that is just my opinion

[Scribbler]

@erinmeri

One more thing to add: I live in a relatively humid area (NYC Tri-State), and while I might not have as big an issue with mold as people in the Deep South or PNW, it is a concern. I also board, but I do pay a lot of attention to the quality of my horse’s hay. She is asthmatic and has had two bouts of EIPH. While I also worry about allergies with regards to what is in the hay contributing, I haven’t been able to do testing (supply chain!).

That said: We (my IM vet, my trainer and my barn manager and I) fret a LOT about mold. My mare’s hay is soaked (not just rinsed), and while that may mitigate issues about surface “floaty” mold, THAT makes us worry about mold as well (even though she eats out of a slow feed net for 90% of her meals - we dump the remains on the ground). Mold needs moisture, warmth, and organics to grow. We can’t control for that if we are soaking it.

So, I may be in the minority here, but I wouldn’t be pleased with bales that have “surface” mold… no matter the color.

Also, I have a degree in medical microbiology, so I am not a “noob” when it comes to mold.

Just my two cents…

I would not buy hay with surface mold. However it tends to get knocked off in the delivery process.

When you are doing self board and counting every bale of hay, you do tend to peel off the worst bits and feed the rest. Of course I don’t have an asthmatic horse. I’d be buying in much smaller batches if I did. Also tarping good and tight keeps the moisture off.