A friend of mine bought one of these and yes, cute to look at, but PURE MONSTER. Loud, rude, bossy. Terrible. But cute.
[QUOTE=RiderWriter;6565773]
I bet the PWD thing is partly due to the “Presidential effect”… I saw that in my breed when Millie Bush lived in the White House. Never good for a breed to become popular.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club USA fought long and hard to keep the AKC from recognizing the breed for fear that popularity would ruin it when the puppy millers got their hands on some. And we all cringed inside when “Sex In the City” had one of the characters “find” a “stray” Cavalier and it became part of the show. After that, I can’t tell you how many calls I got wanting a puppy “just like Elizabeth Taylor on Sex In the City.” Ugh.
A dog is a dog, that’s it. People project what they want on the dog from behavior, conformation to a label and registry.
Having worked with a geneticist that was also a cattle and sheep rancher that highly believed in and operated on hybrid vigor I don’t think I’ll be discounting it any time soon. :lol:
I’m registered as a Huskydoodle with the Continental Kennel Club 
Yes… I…not a dog.
As for the hybrid vigor argument…my mixed breed has racked up thousands of dollars worth of Vet bills for allergies and health issues while my purebred German Shepherd (from a responsible breeder) only racked up two: a bug bite allergy and his neuter. (Aside from annual vax and preventatives)
[QUOTE=wendy;6554814]
well, for some of the “designer” breeds there was originally a rationale for the cross- the labradoodle was an attempt to transfer the poodle coat onto the lab’s temperament (not sure why, standard poodles ALREADY have the kind of temperament that most people interested in labs would definitely appreciate); and things like the “puggle” are an attempt to get desirable pug-like traits into a healthier body type (less deformed), which is a laudable goal; but then it became “fashionable” and turned into a nightmare. Most of the “designer breeders” are just bad breeders out to make a quick buck, so they breed with no regard for health or temperament, and most of the buyers of “designer” dogs are just ignorant dog owners jumping onto the fashion bandwagon. People who choose their dog breed based on how fashionable it is are bound to end up with the wrong kind of dog for them.
Some of the breeders these days seem to be selecting crosses based on how “cute” the resulting name for the cross is, which is just ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I think they want the poodle coat because they don’t shed much? Because people want a “non-shedding” dog, which to me means don’t get a dog, or get a stuffed toy dog! They are as silly as people who think a designer dog is a status symbol
[QUOTE=cowboymom;6566352]
A dog is a dog, that’s it. People project what they want on the dog from behavior, conformation to a label and registry.
Having worked with a geneticist that was also a cattle and sheep rancher that highly believed in and operated on hybrid vigor I don’t think I’ll be discounting it any time soon. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Um what? Literally none of your post makes sense.
I project my dogs dog’s conformation? A rancher who crosses the healthiest stock from different breeds is analogous to a backyard breeder crossing anything and everything?
We are discounting hybrid vigor as it applies to dogs.
Responsible breeders who want to create the epitome of a breed in terms of health, temperament, conformation, and longevity do not produce designer dogs. People wanting to make a quick buck make designer dogs by crossing a roach-backed poodle and an allergy ridden maltese for “hybrid vigor.”
Here is my little Pekingese Poodle mix. My little heart.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87431845@N06/8004246595/in/photostream
There isn’t a mean bone in this dear little creature’s body. She doesn’t have hybrid vigor, however, and before she was a year old had two femoral ostectomies. Worth every penny…and I’ll be paying on that bill for years to come. 
[QUOTE=allintexas;6566421]
I think they want the poodle coat because they don’t shed much? Because people want a “non-shedding” dog, which to me means don’t get a dog, or get a stuffed toy dog! They are as silly as people who think a designer dog is a status symbol[/QUOTE]
Huh? We wanted a “non-shedding” dog who would be easier on my allergies, so we went out and got a Bedlington Terrier. His shedding was essentially non-existent (what they shed gets caught in the coat until groomed, like a poodle) and bothered my allergies much less than most breeds. People who want that shouldn’t get a dog? We had 15 wonderful years with that dog, and gave him a wonderful home.
I guess my issue with all this is that all breeders of non-purebreds are getting lumped together. That’s essentially the same as me saying that I know some seriously crappy purebred breeders, so they all suck. As someone who would strongly consider buying a sport mix/designer dog/thing that anyone here would mock at some point, I find that a bit annoying. There’s no AKC breed that offers the traits I want in a dog, and no AKC breeder who is putting conformation titles on their dogs is going to be producing what I want. There are intentionally bred litters of health tested, sport tested, titled dogs being bred to achieve the traits I want. Why in heaven’s name wouldn’t I support them? If I could ever get a puppy from those breeders - most are gone to people they know before the puppies are a twinkle in their mother’s eye. They sure as heck aren’t clogging up the shelters.
I won’t support puppy mills, pet stores, or people crossing toy breeds without a specific goal in mind for why they are creating the mix. But if a rancher wants to put some cattle dog in their BC lines to create a tougher dog, or if a racer wants to put some pointer in with their huskies to create a better runner, or someone (heaven forbid) wants to cross another breed in with a BC to optimize their skills in dog sports, I say go for it. If the puppies are going into the right sort of situation, they aren’t adding to the shelter numbers or killing shelter dogs that might otherwise be adopted. They are filling a niche, just like all the purebreds have done for years.
Apples and Oranges. You are trying to start an unrelated argument. We are discussing designer bred backyard dogs. Performance crosses are done to enhance the athletic ability and are backed by titles, testing, etc. We aren’t discussing whippet/border lure dogs. We are discussing morkies and goldendoodles.
Out of curiosity. What are your needs that no AKC breed met but that a cross has?
[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;6566551]
Um what? Literally none of your post makes sense.
I project my dogs dog’s conformation? A rancher who crosses the healthiest stock from different breeds is analogous to a backyard breeder crossing anything and everything?
We are discounting hybrid vigor as it applies to dogs.
Responsible breeders who want to create the epitome of a breed in terms of health, temperament, conformation, and longevity do not produce designer dogs. People wanting to make a quick buck make designer dogs by crossing a roach-backed poodle and an allergy ridden maltese for “hybrid vigor.”[/QUOTE]
:lol: sorry I don’t have time to put the dots closer together for you.
Absolutely, most of the thread has been. I wasn’t really trying to compare the two, but it has come up a few times, and I specifically asked about the difference earlier with only one response, so I was throwing it out there. The superiority of purebreds vs mixed breeds becomes a bit less solid when the mixed breeds are doing everything right, in my mind. Good breeders are good breeders, and if they are producing healthy dogs with a goal in mind and a market suitable for that dog, they aren’t the problem.
There are a couple of AKC breeds that come close to the type of dog I want, but miss on a few big items. ACD are dogs I very much like, but I don’t like the protective instinct, and I’ve met a lot that are outright dog aggressive. A good Sheltie can be pretty close to my type, but I don’t do coat - plus the Shelties I like generally come from breeders your average “breed responsibly by using dogs with conformation titles” person will denounce.
I like 20 - 35 lbs, under 16" if possible (my current dog has probably failed on that front, but we’ll see when the official measurements start), slick coat, low possibility of human aggression or protective instinct, balanced toy and food drives, high handler focus, low softness towards the handler, and drive falling out their ears, with an ability to settle in the house if exercised heavily mentally and physically. Doesn’t need to be dog park friendly, but needs to not be overtly aggressive. If they start chattering their teeth and their eyes vibrate as you walk towards agility equipment, they get bonus points. The border/staffy and border/stack mixes I’ve met are completely my cup of tea. My upcoming boy is half BC/half unknown, but clearly some sort of terrier mix. He is frequently assumed to be border/stack. I’d take ten of him in a heartbeat. Not a dog for most people, which is why it is good that the good sport breeders are so selective and keeping the numbers very low. But for those of us who adore that type of dog, there just isn’t a show breeder out there producing it. I’ll always look for a rescue first, but I’d consider a breeder of one in the future if I could get myself on the list.
You do realize that there are many breeders of purebred/AKC breeds that breed with a focus on performance? I know multiple corgi breeders who breed dogs which are conformationally correct but with a focus on performance. My first litter (co-bred with my mentor) are three and more than half the litter have performance titles.
[QUOTE=Marshfield;6567475]
You do realize that there are many breeders of purebred/AKC breeds that breed with a focus on performance? I know multiple corgi breeders who breed dogs which are conformationally correct but with a focus on performance. My first litter (co-bred with my mentor) are three and more than half the litter have performance titles.[/QUOTE]
Are you addressing me or Boston?
[QUOTE=Sonesta;6566340]
Yes, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club USA fought long and hard to keep the AKC from recognizing the breed for fear that popularity would ruin it when the puppy millers got their hands on some. And we all cringed inside when “Sex In the City” had one of the characters “find” a “stray” Cavalier and it became part of the show. After that, I can’t tell you how many calls I got wanting a puppy “just like Elizabeth Taylor on Sex In the City.” Ugh.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if there was any sort of spike in Scottish Terriers with the second Bush administration (where Barney had his own webcam, plus Miss Beazley being a puppy and therefore adorable) or if anyone who saw BarneyCam and thought “I WANT ONE!” met an actual Scottie and realized Barney probably had a webcam because he demanded one and bossed them into it? I have thought about a Scottie, and even share a vet down here with a lady who’s involved in the Michigan AKC-affiliate Scottie club’s Scottie rescue and placement (heck, she offered to keep my info in case I was looking when the bitch she had with her retired from showing!) but I suspect that a house with a highly-opinionated and assertive Corgi and a highly-opinionated and assertive Scottie would soon implode.
[QUOTE=Marshfield;6567475]
You do realize that there are many breeders of purebred/AKC breeds that breed with a focus on performance? I know multiple corgi breeders who breed dogs which are conformationally correct but with a focus on performance. My first litter (co-bred with my mentor) are three and more than half the litter have performance titles.[/QUOTE]
I do; I will say, I still find the vast majority of dogs bred by breeders focused on conformation shows are still lacking in the type of drive I’m looking for in a dog. There are certain breeds where I’m well aware the split is not so great, and some of the dogs going to shows are performance/working dogs first, and show dogs second. But there is no denying that the split is enormous in some breeds. They are breeding for a different ideal; it is why so many working breeders fight tooth and nail to keep their dogs out of the AKC.
I put an agility championship on a very soft, scared adult rescue who’d never been in a house and was scared of changes in flooring. I’m well aware you (generic you) can turn most dogs into decent performance dogs. Do I think for an instant that dog is an ideal candidate for performance? Not a chance. We both struggled hard. She’s a great sport and gives me what she’s capable of, but she doesn’t come alive and beg to be allowed to run when she sees equipment, the way my younger, chosen for sport, dog does.
I apologize for pulling this so far off the topic most people were discussing - like I said, a few people brought up border/jacks and sport/working mixes, and I wanted to clarify that I fully believe mixed breeds/designer dogs can be bred ethically for those purposes; not everyone crossing two breeds is looking for a funny name and profit. Sometimes they are looking to fill a niche. Back to your regularly scheduled program!
[QUOTE=Marshfield;6567475]
You do realize that there are many breeders of purebred/AKC breeds that breed with a focus on performance? I know multiple corgi breeders who breed dogs which are conformationally correct but with a focus on performance. My first litter (co-bred with my mentor) are three and more than half the litter have performance titles.[/QUOTE]
Our lone purebred is an American Cocker Spaniel from a breeder breeding for working/performance rather than AKC show ring success. Since she was always intended to just be a pet we never did any training of that nature with her, but her various relatives all do and you can definitely tell that she’s got working dog traits - she’s crazy smart.
That said, there are some AKC breeds where I would FLEE even a ‘good’ AKC breeder because what wins in the show ring is so freaking bizarre that even if they’re trying to keep working dog traits also, the conformation end of things is just not my cup of tea. (GSD breeders, I am looking at you. There’s a reason why pretty much no one who is looking for a working quality GSD goes for American bloodlines.)
Actually, after having Foxy, I do have to say that if I was going to go for a purebred instead of my usual shelter route, I would 100% look for someone who bred working dogs. I don’t really need a super worker for primarily a pet, but I’m sure there are dogs in the litters that have many of the working traits like intelligence but just don’t make the cut when it comes to really Having A Job due to attention span or whatever, who might make perfectly good pets. (Fixed, naturally. I wouldn’t expect a dog who’d washed out of working training to be breeding stock.)
[QUOTE=RiderWriter;6565773]
I bet the PWD thing is partly due to the “Presidential effect”… I saw that in my breed when Millie Bush lived in the White House. Never good for a breed to become popular.[/QUOTE]
A neighbor, Asian family with heavy accents so much that it sounds difficult for the husband to actually say the dog’s name, have a Springer puppy. The name? Millie! The American dream :lol:.
You know the rules. :mad: Pictures! :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;6567255]
Out of curiosity. What are your needs that no AKC breed met but that a cross has?[/QUOTE]
On a slightly lighter note, I have had, over the years, 4 cross breds. The difference is that mine were the result of backyard or other “accidents” and not planned for a marketing technique. They all came from shelters.
So after reading this, I did ask myself the above question and the best answer I have about my personal situation is that I can’t pick one breed that I would absolutely love to have…
I have a friend who I believe got a Cav. King Charles via a puppy mill breeder. Dog was bought over the phone, shipped to her from somewhere for about 1/2 the cost of what area breeders seem to get. She is a cute dog, now about a year old, but she does look a tad different than those who went direct to breeder and picked out their own…
I dont have an issue with the concept of a crossbred. Not even too upset at the cutsey names. As others have said though, they are usually the result of crosses between two poor examples of their breeds who have not had health testing. Since many of these crosses have similar helath issues, you have a high risk of having a dog with a hereditary issue in spite of it being a “healthier crossbred”.
I imagine there are some people using screening to produce crosses, especially for performance events, but the vast majority do not.
As with purebreds, one of the attractions ofgetting purebred or known cross is for the predictiblity of type and personality. That all goes out the window with volume “breed any two dogs of the breed(s) you want” producers. While many people are happy with a dog that somewhat off-type, health and temperment issues (genetic and environmental) can cause a lot of heartache.
Many in the Border Collie world fought for years NOT to get the breed accepted (?) by the AKC. I agree with them, as a BC first and foremost is a working dog. Pretty is as pretty does.
I miss having BCs, but we are surrounded by cattle/sheep/goats and I don’t want to spend all of my waking hours yelling “THAT’LL DOOO!” :lol:
Oh, and will try to post pics of my dachshunds/puggle/etc.
PS-puggle is very vexed, as the kitties she loved to “chase” have all befriended her. :lol: Evil, evil kittehs. 
