What is the coldest you normally ride in??

[Equisis]

I was definitely more of a wimp at the beginning of this winter… after the past few mild winters, I took the first week of single digits/low teens as a good excuse for an early winter break. After it became clear the cold was here to stay… I tend to not ride in single digits, but I will ride in the teens (nothing terribly strenuous as the horses are not quite used to it) and in the upper teens/low 20s is a normal day as usual. It is important to warm up your horse carefully and be sure they are not laboring in the cold, this is really true of any ride, and I think they tend to be a bit hardier than we give them credit for. I have had some very good and reputable vets tell me that riding is pretty safe until temps start to drop below zero (air temps) and others who recommend taking it very easy below 30… I think knowing your horse, what they are used to, and how to assess their condition while riding is important in these cases.

That said, rider comfort is another story entirely! It can be hard to motivate yourself to ride in really bitter weather, and I know I tend to use the cold weather as a good reason to give some of the horses a bit of a break (youngsters and those not heading into a serious competition schedule, especially). Most of them can benefit from a little winter vaca; might as well keep myself a little warmer at the same time!

[CrowneDragon]

Single digits Fahrenheit and below I don’t ride. At that point I don’t have the right clothes to ride and 1) stay warm enough while 2) being able to move freely.

[billiebob]

Coldest air temperature I’ve ridden in this winter was -9F, coldest windchill was around -25F. I had to check water troughs, the ATV won’t start when it’s that cold, and I couldn’t get the pickup out there. The horses live out and are used to the cold. These were 90% walk rides, I was covered as much as possible, and the unclipped TB wore 2 quarter sheets. The fat yak of a cowpony even wore a quarter sheet.

I don’t do anything serious if it’s below about 10F. Depends on windchill, seeing as I have no arena.

[NorthwoodsRider]

I’ve made it my mission this winter to go out whenever it comes up to the “minus-single-digits” or better Celsius. The ones I ride live outside (with free access to the barn and run in, but prefer to be outside most of the time) in temps down to -40 (no C or F there… -40 is where the two scales meet), so it’s not like I’m pulling them out of a nice warm barn to go riding. None of them are blanketed and grow full winter coat, so I am super careful not to get them sweaty unless I have sufficient time to get them 100% dry before letting them go back out.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=Karosel;7439001]
-25 to -28 degrees Celsius. so I guess about -15 F

My horse is used to these temperatures and other than frosty whiskers and nostrils he is fine. Daily highs can be -20 C for weeks at a time. People here run and bike outside in the winter to easily -30C.[/QUOTE]

This is too cold to ride. Just because you don’t mind doesn’t mean your horse doesn’t. Think about how bundled up you are in this weather, and then you tale all your horses blankets off and make them work. Yes this crummy weather lasts for weeks at a time, but nothing is so important you need to ride in that cold.

-15c should be the cut off…anything colder can do serious damage to lungs and muscles.

[Karosel]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7439327]
This is too cold to ride. Just because you don’t mind doesn’t mean your horse doesn’t. Think about how bundled up you are in this weather, and then you tale all your horses blankets off and make them work. Yes this crummy weather lasts for weeks at a time, but nothing is so important you need to ride in that cold.

-15c should be the cut off…anything colder can do serious damage to lungs and muscles.[/QUOTE]

Oh please. My horse is fine and his lungs and muscles are not being “seriously damaged”. I’m not out galloping him into the ground and he works in an arena. He wears a quarter sheet for the ride, multiple coolers while being groomed and is warmed up and cooled out. It’s usually under -20 here from November to mid April. My horse has to be ridden 6 days a week because of his stifle issues. I cannot leave my horse to do nothing for 6 months. And my horse is not the only one working in these temperatures. Hundreds of horses work in the winter in this province, even my vet’s horses.

And believe me, if my horse minded I would know it. Cold weather lasts “weeks at a time” … right… maybe in Ontario or BC.

Also, where is the evidence for “serious damage” to lungs and muscle tissue? What I’ve read so far (peer-reviewed journal articles in vet medical journals) is there is an association between upregulation of cytokines in cold weather exercise and some epithelial cells from a lavage from 3 horses, which the authors say “…we can not rule out the possibility of exercise per se causing increased epithelial cell shedding based on the data in the present study…” A study of 3 horses, mind you. No observations of “serious damage” were stated in any of the research papers published by this group. I’ll risk some cytokine upregulation rather than a dead lame stifle-issue horse because he didn’t get exercised for 6 months. Also, this research group (Davis et al) used 5C and -5C as their cold temperatures (not -15, which you declare “should” be the cutoff)… so you better not be riding at all this winter, because even Ontario gets below 5C (41F) in the winter. :winkgrin:

I should let my horse know he shouldn’t be galloping around in his field and acting like a fool with his friends when it’s -46 C (-56C with windchill) out. He’s doing “serious damage” to himself. :winkgrin:

[SnicklefritzG]

I think it’s all about what you and the horse are used to. If you are used to 30-40 oF in the winter and all of a sudden you’re dealing with single digits and lower, I think both horse and rider are going to feel uncomfortable.

What matters is knowing the horse well enough to tell when it is uncomfortable.

[Cameraine]

I am a complete weanie when it comes to the cold. If it’s in the 40’s and not windy then I might ride. If its anywhere below that I won’t ride. I am not a serious amateur like a couple of my friends who ride most of the winter. Trying remember what unfrozen toes and fingers feel like is not fun. My horse will be there waiting when spring finally decides to arrive. Until then I’ll ride when I can do so without wondering why I decided to get on in such crappy weather.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=Karosel;7440556]
Oh please. My horse is fine and his lungs and muscles are not being “seriously damaged”. I’m not out galloping him into the ground and he works in an arena. He wears a quarter sheet for the ride, multiple coolers while being groomed and is warmed up and cooled out. It’s usually under -20 here from November to mid April. My horse has to be ridden 6 days a week because of his stifle issues. I cannot leave my horse to do nothing for 6 months. And my horse is not the only one working in these temperatures. Hundreds of horses work in the winter in this province, even my vet’s horses.

And believe me, if my horse minded I would know it. Cold weather lasts “weeks at a time” … right… maybe in Ontario or BC.

Also, where is the evidence for “serious damage” to lungs and muscle tissue? [/QUOTE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17402479

http://www.iceep.org/pdf/iceep2/_1129101021_001.pdf

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/51384110_Cold_air-induced_late-phase_bronchoconstriction_in_horses

http://books.google.ca/books?id=tkOsTiuQzBwC&pg=PT260&lpg=PT260&dq=equine+cold+air+exercise&source=bl&ots=lHtMdOm6N8&sig=bUMFBThwKM996XnckhgoxdKq2CI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EgcGU92YDMeEyAHRroGYBg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=equine%20cold%20air%20exercise&f=false

https://www.equestriancollections.com/help_center.asp?section=Tips%20and%20Helpful%20Hints&question=3096

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-experts/horse-vet-advice/horse-exercise-in-winter.aspx

But why take professional research’s word for it, I’m sure your horse can tell you exactly how much he enjoys exercising in freezing temps.

[CatchMeIfUCan]

FYI Jealoushe, the second article you posted (which is the only complete research article you posted in the whole group) says that exercising in -25C did not seen to have any untoward effect on the horses and actually seemed to help with heat dissipation. Also, there was no evidence of respiratory tissue damage. Read the conclusion.

It would be great to see the full research article for the first link and see their methods and data. While it says there is a heightened occurrence of damage after 48 hours, it does not say how much. I can’t read the full third and fourth articles and the fifth and sixth are link to a vet’s commentary with no links to published research that they are basing their opinion on.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

my personal cut off is 10F (-12C) (and rarely ride when it is below 14F (-10C))—all without windchill.

Where I live, it doesn’t often stay that cold for very long. We have an indoor but it isn’t insulated or heated. So at those temps it is just uncomfortable. So If there is no real need for me to ride, my horses can have a break.

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7441201]
my personal cut off is 10F (-12C) (and rarely ride when it is below 14F (-10C))—all without windchill.

Where I live, it doesn’t often stay that cold for very long. We have an indoor but it isn’t insulated or heated. So at those temps it is just uncomfortable. So If there is no real need for me to ride, my horses can have a break.[/QUOTE]

My cutoff is normally -13 to -15 C. When we had that cold snap in December, I did very little riding. With the persistent cold we’ve had this winter, though, I’ve decided I have to suck it up: it’s not fair to the horses to be constantly giving them time off and picking them up again. The problem for me is that I have 6-8 horses to ride/work. Taking a week off equals a major setback because of the number of rides I’m missing.

I refuse to ride when it’s below -20, but I will go out and ride a few at temperatures as low as that if I feel I have to. As a rule, I tend to do only light work when the mercury drops below -12 or so. I’m also operating under the assumption that horses are able to acclimatize to the cold. Therefore, I am more willing to ride in lower temps when we’ve had several weeks/months of continuous “extreme” cold than I would if the temperature suddenly drops and the horses have not had time to adjust.

[HorsePrerace]

Yep agree with PaintedHunter

[millerra]

I have found the limiting factor has always been me.

W/r/t the “damage” done to horses’ lungs due to exercising in cold weather, I have to say that the limited studies done on this subject do not hold up to experience - and there may be population studies that would better address this issue.

First, I know that anecdotes are not scientific studies, but for all who claim that pick your temp is too cold and will damage lungs… here’s some thoughts.

Many of us in the colder regions have our horses living months at a time with out heat in sub (F) zero temps. They run around, play, etc. They even work during the winter, months at a time, in below freezing temperature. The Amish buggy horses work all year long, hard. While I don’t know about the lungs of Amish horses, I know that my 20 yr old and my 28 yr old are not showing any signs of lung damage - at all. Now, granted, they’re not out running 4 stars, but you would think the cumulative damage of months at a time of breathing in cold cold air would show up - if it occurred. So far, it hasn’t occurred to my old ones or any one else’s that I know of in my little circle.

Moreover, us wheenie little human beings go out running, skiing in all sorts of bad temps and so far we’re not dropping over of lung disease due to cold exposure - and we’re even less adapted for cold than the good ol’ horse.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=millerra;7441598]
I have found the limiting factor has always been me.

W/r/t the “damage” done to horses’ lungs due to exercising in cold weather, I have to say that the limited studies done on this subject do not hold up to experience - and there may be population studies that would better address this issue.

First, I know that anecdotes are not scientific studies, but for all who claim that pick your temp is too cold and will damage lungs… here’s some thoughts.

Many of us in the colder regions have our horses living months at a time with out heat in sub (F) zero temps. They run around, play, etc. They even work during the winter, months at a time, in below freezing temperature. The Amish buggy horses work all year long, hard. While I don’t know about the lungs of Amish horses, lets be clear to know that my 20 yr old and my 28 yr old are not showing any signs of lung damage - at all. Now, granted, they’re not out running 4 stars anymore, but you would think the cumulative damage of months at a time of breathing in cold cold air would show up - if it occurred. So far, it hasn’t occurred to my old ones or any one else’s that I know of in my little circle.

Moreover, us wheenie little human beings go out running, skiing in all sorts of bad temps and so far we’re not dropping over of lung disease due to cold exposure - and we’re even less adapted for cold than the good ol’ horse.[/QUOTE]

True…but I know of 5 horses who ended up in the vet hospital with lung damage from being worked when it was too cold (obviously for those horses). Obviously not all horses in the area suddenly had lung issues. But I do know runners who have as well. No horse was killed…but obviously time was lost getting them fully recovered.

There is a difference to me to horses doing things of their own free will–although I have many who have hurt themselves running and playing too hard in their fields—and risking even minor damage to actively competing horses who we are legging up for competitions by making them work. It may not cause that horse to drop dead…or even cause long term damage…but coughing and decrease capacity can affect them for their seasons. Whereas a day off or working them lighter would have avoided the issue. Again like most things…it is using common sense and judgement.

I’ve seen dead Amish horses on the side of the road…so looking to them as examples of great horsemanship isn’t really something I would recommend. Their plow horses generally are not working in extreme cold. And here in PA (where we do have a large Amish population)–we do not typically have temps that cold for that long. Even this winter where it was colder than normal…most days it was easily near or above freezing. Today it is near 50F (+10C).

[Karosel]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7441056]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17402479

http://www.iceep.org/pdf/iceep2/_1129101021_001.pdf

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/51384110_Cold_air-induced_late-phase_bronchoconstriction_in_horses

http://books.google.ca/books?id=tkOsTiuQzBwC&pg=PT260&lpg=PT260&dq=equine+cold+air+exercise&source=bl&ots=lHtMdOm6N8&sig=bUMFBThwKM996XnckhgoxdKq2CI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EgcGU92YDMeEyAHRroGYBg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=equine%20cold%20air%20exercise&f=false

https://www.equestriancollections.com/help_center.asp?section=Tips%20and%20Helpful%20Hints&question=3096

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-experts/horse-vet-advice/horse-exercise-in-winter.aspx

But why take professional research’s word for it, I’m sure your horse can tell you exactly how much he enjoys exercising in freezing temps.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you need to review what peer-reviewed journal articles actually are. :lol: And actually read the articles in their full length and critically evaluate the work they have done. I have actually read Davis et al’s full articles- not just their abstracts. Their study has a serious flaw in it. They’re not using cold adapted horses. They’re using horses in Oklahoma, which is not cold at all.

Also, I fail to see how linking to websites to vets talking about the research papers I HAVE ACTUALLY read does anything to further your point. I told you I have read Davis et al’s research papers in full, so why post an abstract? :lol: So, 6 horses had an upregulation of IL-10 and few other cytokines… might not mean anything… might mean something… the researchers don’t know and state that more research is needed. A cytokine upregulation is not evidence of ‘serious damage.’ The research is weak at best. 2 or 3 papers published by the same group in warm Oklahoma. The study would have more credibility if they had used horses that were already in a -20C environment for months. And they used a air mask to chill the air and the level of air delivered was greater than what horses would normally inspire while exercising. “The
volume of air delivered (3,800 l/min) was in excess of the reported
maximal inspiratory rate for horses exercising at submaximal levels
(26) to prevent the horses from inhaling unchilled ambient air during
exercise.” Yes this was done help prevent inhalation of unchilled air, but this could potentially skew the results.

Also, I’m not sure why this is difficult for you to understand, but the research Davis et al did used -5C and 5C as the cold temperatures. (oh right you haven’t actually read the papers in their full length, although that info is in the abstract as well) So, really if we are to base the temperature when not to ride it would at or below 5C. So I guess you don’t ever ride under 5C? :lol: I’m really curious where you are getting the -15C as the cutoff point.

Also, I just have to point out the link to the Q&A vet actually stated this at the end “However, keeping your horse moving during winter in the North still has many benefits as long as it’s not “excessive.” Here then is my common sense advice for winter riding, which I think has value for the cardiopulmonary system, the musculoskeletal system, the digestive system and certainly the central nervous system (your horse’s brain!): gently and gradually warm up, take your time cooling down (including drying off if necessary), be aware of the footing if you’re riding outside so that your horse doesn’t slip, and respect your horse’s current fitness level.”

So this proves your point how??? hmmm seems to support my hypothesis better… :winkgrin:

Did you even actually read the second journal article you posted!!! :lol: (I can’t believe you posted this article in your defense- I kinda feel embarassed for you, but thanks for pointing this article out to me it’s very informative ) It’s conclusion states " In conclusion, cold exposure (-25C) did not seem to have any untoward effect on near maximal exercise tolerance. On the contrary, the cold weather seemed beneficial for heat disspation during exercise. Further no evidence of tissue damage in the respiratory tract was observed." And this research group actually took lung tissue biopsies, not just an RNA extraction of a lung lavage like Davis et al.

I think I’ve made my point… or rather you did for me. :lol:

Anyway, I’d love to keep arguing with you, but I’ve got a horse to ride.

[Karosel]

[QUOTE=CatchMeIfUCan;7441178]
FYI Jealoushe, the second article you posted (which is the only complete research article you posted in the whole group) says that exercising in -25C did not seen to have any untoward effect on the horses and actually seemed to help with heat dissipation. Also, there was no evidence of respiratory tissue damage. Read the conclusion.

It would be great to see the full research article for the first link and see their methods and data. While it says there is a heightened occurrence of damage after 48 hours, it does not say how much. I can’t read the full third and fourth articles and the fifth and sixth are link to a vet’s commentary with no links to published research that they are basing their opinion on.[/QUOTE]

Glad I’m not the only one who knows what peer-reviewed research journals are (and takes the time to actually read them :lol:). If you’re interested I have Davis et al’s research papers. Pm me your email I’ll send them to you.

[millerra]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7441627]
True…but I know of 5 horses who ended up in the vet hospital with lung damage from being worked when it was too cold (obviously for those horses). Obviously not all horses in the area suddenly had lung issues. But I do know runners who have as well. No horse was killed…but obviously time was lost getting them fully recovered.

And here in PA (where we do have a large Amish population)–we do not typically have temps that cold for that long. Even this winter where it was colder than normal…most days it was easily near or above freezing. Today it is near 50F (+10C).[/QUOTE]

First, I never said the Amish were models of horsemanship nor that seriously hard work could not do damage to horses or people.

And temps close to or above freezing most of the time does not count as a cold winter… I would be perfectly happy w/ those temps because I would feel quite comfortable exercising my horses lightly (20 to 30 minutes dressage and/or gymnastics work) in an indoor. I think that is what most do in the northern climes anyway. And this is in an attempt to keep the horses somewhat legged up for the event season, which runs from May to October. Following the guidelines of some, citing harm to our horses, we wouldn’t ride from November through March. So, then how does one properly leg up a horse after 5 months completely off for an event in 6 weeks? Answer - one doesn’t, safely w/r/t fitness. The other option - when the temps are above 0F, work the horses lightly to maintain some baseline fitness. I prefer that option to not competing until, say July - and ending in early October.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=millerra;7442921]
First, I never said the Amish were models of horsemanship nor that seriously hard work could not do damage to horses or people.

And temps close to or above freezing most of the time does not count as a cold winter… I would be perfectly happy w/ those temps because I would feel quite comfortable exercising my horses lightly (20 to 30 minutes dressage and/or gymnastics work) in an indoor. I think that is what most do in the northern climes anyway. And this is in an attempt to keep the horses somewhat legged up for the event season, which runs from May to October. Following the guidelines of some, citing harm to our horses, we wouldn’t ride from November through March. So, then how does one properly leg up a horse after 5 months completely off for an event in 6 weeks? Answer - one doesn’t, safely w/r/t fitness. The other option - when the temps are above 0F, work the horses lightly to maintain some baseline fitness. I prefer that option to not competing until, say July - and ending in early October.[/QUOTE]

That was my point. In my area…the temps RARELY are so cold that this really is a concern, so giving a day or two…or even a week off…isn’t a big deal when the temps do occassionally get that cold.

But in truly cold climates…many have things like heated or insulated indoors where the temps would be more controlled to not cause harm. Not t-shirt riding mind you, but air temps warm enough not to cause harm and horses/rider more accustom to the cold.

My point on the Amish was they are living here…where while we have winter…it isn’t the same as winter in Canada.

This WAS a big issue here because we had some periods of time were the temps got VERY cold for us in December and early Jan when people were up here legging horses up who were going to be competing in Feb down south. And by cold, I mean below -15C air temp. As I said, since it typically is not that cold here or that cold for that long, we do not have the infrastructure of insulated rings nor are our horses accustom to that cold. And some riders here were STUPID…and over worked their horses in that cold causing lung damage.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=Karosel;7442394]

Anyway, I’d love to keep arguing with you, but I’ve got a horse to ride.[/QUOTE]

Yet that didn’t stop you from writing a long winded ranting reply.

Whose arguing? Calm down.

I was merely sharing some research on the topic I came across on the internet. Yes I read it all…and sorry, I am not going to share things that only support my thoughts, I have an open mind - it is all interesting, and much of that research is flawed like was pointed out. Obviously more research is needed…but in reality your horse doesn’t have a say, and moving around outside and eating is vastly different than being worked.

To compare, perhaps you could remove all your clothing and go for a 40 minute jog outside in -25c, and tell me how much you enjoy it.