What is this horse worth?

[JB]

Hmmm, I disagree with that to some extent.

A 5yo whose owner spent $5k to put him in training for 60 days with a great young horse Dressage trainer, is inherently worth more than a 5yo who had 60 days of reasonably good amateur training put into him.

At some point there is a point of diminishing returns though, so the 10yo going around AA Hunter courses and winning, isn’t inherently worth more, or less than the “same” 8yo who has less $ in him, or the “same” 12yo who has more $ in him.

A 4yo lightly backed horse who has been ponied on trails all over, for 2 years, is worth more than a 4yo lightly backed horse who hasn’t ever left the property he was born on.

The level of training (time and/or $ cost) does influence how much a horse is worth.
The level of exposure (time and/or $ cost) does influence how much a horse is worth.

[J-Lu]

@MadTrotter

Find me a sound, calm, pretty QH under 7 (any breed, really) that has a good dressage foundation on it and can already be trailered and shown for $8k and send me the ad. I’m serious, I’m shopping for my husband’s next horse. 15.2H is plenty for him as long as it’s not super slightly built.

I’m serious, send me the ads.

I was responding to the OPs add and information.

Like I said, I wouldn’t pay over about $8-10K for the horse BASED ON HER DESCRIPTION. Yep, the horse is pretty and that can sell. She has no real conformation shots expect for her the OP sitting on bareback. That says very little. Most people looking to pay $$ for a horse want a conformation pic, especially if the horse is a dressage “prospect” or “doing dressage”. Like I said, I didn’t see what the horse is crossed to and that, and that makes a difference. Most people want to see bloodlines because it gives people an “indication” of the horse’s mind and talent. For sure not representative but an “indication”.

I also said that I would not trust that this horse has a “solid foundation of dressage” based on the information unless there was quality video of the horse going under saddle proving that it had a solid foundation of dressage. Anyone can SAY that their horse has a solid dressage foundation and very often they don’t.

If the OP thinks her horse is worth more, the OP should advertise accordingly. Videos are very important to me and my friends, whether they are dressage people or stock people (I have a bunch of friends who ride QHs and other types of stock horses or crosses). Pretty much, nobody trusts what they read in ads without actual proof and quality pics/videos unless they can afford to lose the money.

ETA: The only 5 year olds competently solid at third level and competently schooling fourth are star warmbloods shooting for the stars in the young horse program, and many of them will become lame. Also, a “level-build” horse will have a hard time carrying weight behind for dressage. Even the FEI 5 year old tests don’t have flying changes and this 5 year old is apparently schooling and showing them right now. Unless I see a video, I doubt this horse is moving correctly. If this horse IS very correct at 3rd and 4th level at 5 years old, it can be sold in the 6 figures as a Junior rider phenom or a GP prospect for a small rider. But likely, it may not be sound in the future.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

Or a superstar Iberian . Current USDF Horse of the Year PSG score leader is a 7 year old Lusitano stallion (worth over 6 figures for sure - his 2022 offspring start at 25K).

[Mardi1]

@the_sandiest_shoes

Current USDF Horse of the Year PSG score leader is a 7 year old

I love Iberians. For me, 7 yrs old is early to be entrenched in PSG work. If he was showing well at Fourth level, while schooling/playing with PSG work, that would be preferable as I consider the potential longevity of his career based soundness (and his mind).

[CanteringCarrot]

Yeah, that’s great and all (as a long time Iberian fan and supporter), but I’m interested to see how he is and where he’s at in a other 5 to 7 years. If he’s still going strong, doing well, and has a good record, then I’d be really interested in breeding from him or buying an offspring. However, I can understand why people get excited about him now, and he’s certainly a nice horse.

It’s so easy to push these willing and capable horses, and be totally blinded by success. Speaking generally here, because that might have been unclear.

Some may hold up to this work, mentally and physically, but when they don’t, it’s really ugly. All for a selfish pursuit. Well, much of riding is selfish, really. I’m also guilty of that as a general participant in the sport.

[MadTrotter]

I guess I chose to believe the OP because really, what is the point of an inquisition? She’s not selling the horse, it’s a pure hypothetical and I guess you are free to throw as many of your own suspicions and assumptions in to come to your own preferred conclusion. /shrug.

Anywho, that is why I said “solid dressage foundation” to alleviate any questions about the actuality of this specific horse’s abilities. This horse, if it’s sound, sane, can be trucked and shown, is easily a $15k+ horse even if all it’s doing is some solid training level tests at schooling shows. Pop it over a couple 2’6” fences and it’s pretty much the ideal “Pony Club” type and parents will pay for pretty and safe.

And honestly, the majority of riders don’t need 17h monsters with huge strides they cannot mount or sit. There are TONS of pretty, trail-safe QH’s going for that and more, regardless of the dressage training.

[SillyHorse]

@MadTrotter

I guess I chose to believe the OP because really, what is the point of an inquisition? She’s not selling the horse, it’s a pure hypothetical and I guess you are free to throw as many of your own suspicions and assumptions in to come to your own preferred conclusion. /shrug.

Anywho, that is why I said “solid dressage foundation” to alleviate any questions about the actuality of this specific horse’s abilities. This horse, if it’s sound, sane, can be trucked and shown, is easily a $15k+ horse even if all it’s doing is some solid training level tests at schooling shows. Pop it over a couple 2’6” fences and it’s pretty much the ideal “Pony Club” type and parents will pay for pretty and safe.

And honestly, the majority of riders don’t need 17h monsters with huge strides they cannot mount or sit. There are TONS of pretty, trail-safe QH’s going for that and more, regardless of the dressage training.

It’s not an inquisition, it’s a realistic discussion of the OP’s question.

Frankly, when I first read the original post, I wondered why someone would be so interested in what a horse is worth if she’s not interested in selling it. She never mentions that it’s for insurance purposes.

OP says the horse is schooling fourth level. Five years old is very young to be doing this kind of work, especially for a horse that’s “not terribly downhill.”

Next, how can anyone offer an opinion about the horse without seeing a conformation shot and a video. Would you pay a seller’s asking price without seeing these? If I can’t see how a horse moves, I can’t tell much about it, and I’d be nuts to simply take the seller’s word for its abilities. Sure, it’s a pretty color, but you can’t ride a pretty color.

And honestly, the majority of riders don’t need 17h monsters with huge strides they cannot mount or sit.

There’s a world of difference between a horse that’s 15.1 and a horse that’s 17 hands. In fact, there’s a huge difference between 16 hands and 17 hands.

[sorrelfilly721]

@SillyHorse

Frankly, when I first read the original post, I wondered why someone would be so interested in what a horse is worth if she’s not interested in selling it. She never mentions that it’s for insurance purposes.

No need to be so suspicious. I see ads all the time for horses that in my opinion are junk and they’re asking $12-15K. I just was curious. Fourth level includes a couple changes across a diagonal. She does those in her sleep. Are they 100% correct in form? No, not yet. Someday they will be. No hurry.

I just thought this would be an interesting discussion and it seems that it is.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

I think my perspective is a little bit smoke em if you got em. I have never gotten to FEI in competition (so close twice with schoolmasters that weren’t consistently sound enough to show). I would like to show PSG and if I have a young horse that can get me a sixty, then I don’t want to wait and keep showing third in case something happens (again), to me, the horse, etc. and I miss the chance. If he’s on a snaffle, loose noseband, chill about training 30 mins 4x a week, I don’t think it’s abusive, personally. I’ve had success only doing the “tricks” (half pass, lines of changes, pirouettes, etc) the week before the show and primarily working on transitions and straightness/ self carriage at home. Each to their own for sure but that’s where I’m coming from as a long time rider, amateur with limited resources and no promise of an FEI horse coming around again anytime soon. (This was my approach to getting the Fourth scores on my 6 year old - got a 60 and a 68 and happy to put fourth away now and play with our third freestyle, but it’ll be my plan next year if he keeps going like this.)

[CanteringCarrot]

Ok. I’m not saying it’s abusive. Nor am I saying to just keep showing at 3rd level over and over. Some of us really prioritize competition and placements above all else, some of us don’t, some of us are in the middle somewhere. You don’t have to justify it to me, and we’ll always be at some level of disagreement, and that’s fine.

Best of luck on your journey.

Edit: FWIW I never made it to 4th level prior to owning my Iberian, and they are very special creatures.

[candyappy]

@J-Lu

I didn’t see what the horse is crossed to and that, and that makes a difference.

I thought OP said it was a full QH but in the half quarter horse registry because one of parents had the papers lost.

[sorrelfilly721]

@candyappy

I thought OP said it was a full QH but in the half quarter horse registry because one of parents had the papers lost.

Correct

[jvanrens]

@cheektwocheek

Is she registered as a AQHA Appendix or something other? AQHA does dole out Great year end awards for dressage points. Only applies for recognized shows though.

She’s registered with the Half Quarter Horse registry because her dam’s papers have gone AWOL.

[cnm161]

Huh. Didn’t know until just now that there was a Half Quarter Horse registry. Learn new things every day.

[trubandloki]

@cnm161

Huh. Didn’t know until just now that there was a Half Quarter Horse registry. Learn new things every day.

Me either. And I am surprised a registry that allows the other half to be (technically) unknown.
I thought that most registries require the other half to be of certain breeding (registered as such).

[RHdobes563]

@trubandloki

@cnm161

Huh. Didn’t know until just now that there was a Half Quarter Horse registry. Learn new things every day.

Me either. And I am surprised a registry that allows the other half to be (technically) unknown.
I thought that most registries require the other half to be of certain breeding (registered as such).

Nope. Well, I’m thinking about the Arabian Horse Association which made BIG bucks creating a Half-Arabian registry. They don’t care what the other half is, registered or not.

[jvanrens]

@trubandloki

@cnm161

Huh. Didn’t know until just now that there was a Half Quarter Horse registry. Learn new things every day.

Me either. And I am surprised a registry that allows the other half to be (technically) unknown.
I thought that most registries require the other half to be of certain breeding (registered as such).

The half Arabian has been doing it for a long time! The half QH registry has the same requirements, one parent must be a registered purebred.

[J-Lu]

@jvanrens

@cheektwocheek

Is she registered as a AQHA Appendix or something other? AQHA does dole out Great year end awards for dressage points. Only applies for recognized shows though.

She’s registered with the Half Quarter Horse registry because her dam’s papers have gone AWOL.

Oh thanks, you and @candyappy. I missed that.

[jvanrens]

She’s cutting bred. Some really nice bloodlines. They can be pretty nice movers and amazing athletes.

[J-Lu]

Geez!

I asked relevant questions to better determine what the horse is worth. How odd that you consider that an inquisition. I guess we read her inquiry differently. She asked how much that particular horse might be worth and I answered. You just seem to not like my answer! Sorry!

A 5 year old solid at 3rd and schooling fourth is not impossible but is highly unlikely. That’s kind of the way it is. With that in mind I’d have to contemplate the other things she said.

My very good friend (advanced beginner) purchased a palomino QH ~15.1 hh, papered, took an able person and the next year took a handicapped person to Congress (so showed alot), quiet, clips and loads well, can be stalled alone, stands great, sound, etc. She paid $10K (her trainer found the horse) in NC.

I rode a 15.1hh Trakehner through Fourth and a GP clinician I worked with offered me low to mid 5 five figures when she was at second level at 8 (I didn’t want to sell).

These are cases the show that many, many, many things go into determining a price that will result in a reasonable sell.

@sorrelfilly721 . I’m sure you’re being flip, but you know that Fourth level requires so much more than a couple of changes across the diagonal. You also know swapping leads is not the same as a dressage flying change. Your horse has to truly be able to sit and power off the hind end for fourth. Good luck with your horse!