When choosing a dog, you need to keep in mind that dogs with very strong prey drives can easily end up on the dangerous dog list because killing or attacking an animal is grounds for that classification in many states. Many of the dogs on my state’s dangerous dog list are on there simply because they got loose and went after animals, usually cats, squirrels, or smaller dogs.
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7125718]
BTW the whole Gabby Gifford’s dog on the sealion isn’t people aggression it’s prey drive. Dogs are predators. You’d have to pull all my ridgebacks off that sea lion too.Paula[/QUOTE]
A sustained, vicious attack on a helpless, non-threatening blob of beached sea mammal is prey drive? That’s funny, usually “prey drive” is used to excuse vicious attacks on small critters that move fast, like Yorkies. So prey drive is basically any time a large dog spots something smaller and decides to maul it to death? Give me a break. Humans are predators too. But when a human shows a marked tendency to kill kittens, we don’t say “Well, that’s prey drive, it’ll never translate into aggression toward humans.” This idea that there are rigid categories for aggression is popular and probably feels really accurate and true for anyone who wants to defend their JRT or pit bull, but it’s just political correctness, canine edition.
Yeah I don’t buy the forgive us, we have “prey drive” thing too much. I have dogs that are understood to have “prey drive” but they are actually well behaved and stop what they’re doing, no matter what it is, when I say so. They would love to chase deer and squirrels and gophers but if I say stop it, they do. I have a young Blackmouth cur, a Great Pyr, Aussie and Aussie cross and a chi/dach cross. Prey drive? We has it. Obedience? We has that too.
I’ve had Rhodesian Ridgebacks for about 15 years, and usually in the form of a pack. The sea lion was prey. My dogs were (I’m down to one) well trained, CGC dogs. But they are hunting dogs by breed. They were also well managed. The crime the Giffords committed was having their dog out of control in that environment. IMO that comes from forgetting that your dog is a predator. People are often taken aback when their house/child/personal companion who is all sweetness and light suddenly turns it on and acts like a predator.
It’s about expectations, training, and management.
Paula
[QUOTE=LexInVA;7125577]
Don’t consider either one of those breeds. Get a reliable hound or something similar.[/QUOTE]
Nothing wrong with a Boxer, they love kids!
A sustained, vicious attack on a helpless, non-threatening blob of beached sea mammal is prey drive?
yes. American bulldogs are often used as “hog dogs”- they launch a sustained, vicious attack on wild pigs, holding the struggling pig motionless until the hunter arrives and kills the pig. It’s what they are bred to do. Their ancestors were used as “bull catchers”- to catch and immobilize cattle for the owner. That’s why they are called “bulldogs”.
This behavior of catching animals is an exaggerated part of hunting, entirely prey drive. Dogs engaged in hunting do not exhibit the body language of aggression- they often exhibit play-like body language instead.
There’s no correlation between prey drive and aggression (either dog-dog or dog-human) in dogs; many of the dogs with the highest prey drives have the lowest levels of aggression.
You should assume your dog is a predator and will chase and kill animals if he can, and take steps to control it- socialize, train, manage.
the only thing wrong with that video of the dog and sealion is the owner’s inability to control his dog. The dog is behaving normally.
Thank you, Wendy.
[QUOTE=wendy;7127441]
yes. American bulldogs are often used as “hog dogs”- they launch a sustained, vicious attack on wild pigs, holding the struggling pig motionless until the hunter arrives and kills the pig. It’s what they are bred to do. Their ancestors were used as “bull catchers”- to catch and immobilize cattle for the owner. That’s why they are called “bulldogs”.
This behavior of catching animals is an exaggerated part of hunting, entirely prey drive. Dogs engaged in hunting do not exhibit the body language of aggression- they often exhibit play-like body language instead.
There’s no correlation between prey drive and aggression (either dog-dog or dog-human) in dogs; many of the dogs with the highest prey drives have the lowest levels of aggression.
You should assume your dog is a predator and will chase and kill animals if he can, and take steps to control it- socialize, train, manage.
the only thing wrong with that video of the dog and sealion is the owner’s inability to control his dog. The dog is behaving normally.[/QUOTE]
I misread that first sentence as :American bulldogs are often used as “hot dogs”- and went OMG! :eek: :lol:
[QUOTE=PaintPony;7127553]
I misread that first sentence as :American bulldogs are often used as “hot dogs”- and went OMG! :eek: :lol:[/QUOTE]
Only in certain parts of the NY tri-state area. :lol:
The American Bulldog was a 1960’s designer dog. They were a mix of bulldog types from the rural south in the typical vain recapture-past-glories fairytale efforts of modern breeders to remake long-vanished fighting bulldogs from 19th century England. They were intensely inbred and despite the official lack of dogfighting in their background, there’s never been any attempt to remove the dog-aggression in the breed, so you have to wonder how many dogs have brought down hogs and how many are being used in informal fights.
[QUOTE=wendy;7127441]
There’s no correlation between prey drive and aggression (either dog-dog or dog-human) in dogs; many of the dogs with the highest prey drives have the lowest levels of aggression[/QUOTE]
If you’re saying the American Bulldogs are high on “prey drive” but low on aggression, it’s a bit awkward that they’re well-represented in the list of fatal and disfiguring attacks on humans. Not to mention their kill record with other dogs.
Not for a dog, it isn’t. A large man built like a brick shithouse, has a seriously hard time managing it because of the size and power of the dog - and because it’s mentally out to lunch. Nobody wants a dog that loses its mind while it’s attacking. You don’t find that in the military or in hunting dogs - nobody wants that. There’s no point in having a large, powerful dog that goes into a kill zone and can’t be called out - unless you plan on the attack taking place in a pit and you not being in the pit at the time.
Thank you, vacation.
Bulldogs were used for many different tasks, ranging from guard dog to “hog dog”.
DH’s aunt had a French bulldog that everybody loved.
[QUOTE=wendy;7125689]
American bulldogs are working dogs and make terrible just-pets.
get an adult black Labrador. About as kid-safe as you can get, and big black dogs who won’t actually bite anyone, ever, are your best bet for “guarding”.[/QUOTE]
The one time I was ever bit by a dog it was a black lab…she bit two other people on other occasions as well. Not saying that makes all black labs bad…but you can’t say they will never bite.
[QUOTE=Houdini1220;7130092]
The one time I was ever bit by a dog it was a black lab…she bit two other people on other occasions as well. Not saying that makes all black labs bad…but you can’t say they will never bite.[/QUOTE]
You misread what she said. She said that a “big black dogs who won’t actually bite anyone, ever, are your best bet for ‘gaurding’” which is not the same as “black labs never bite.”
I completely agree that a large, dark, but good-natured dog is a much better guard dog then an unpredictable dog regardless of breed.
Whatever breed you’re considering, please consider any restrictions your insurance or living situation will have. For example, I am totally pissed at the people who know they will live on Military posts at some point, and then get a dog the privatized housing prohibits. The result is the ‘must rehome dog now or else’ ads, when the people should have known before they got the dog that this would be prohibited. On another board there is a discussion about Amer. Bulldogs and living on a military base, and one person advised, just have as many dogs as you want (limits on all bases are 2 dogs, or 2 cats, or one of each) and don’t tell anyone–bad idea because that would lead to immediate eviction, probably military discipline against the military servicemember, and that breed is on the universal banned list for privatized housing, and some places certain breeds aren’t allowed because of local laws-so who knows where you could even live then. There is a downside to privatized housing on post or bases, and that’s definitely part of it. If you know you’re moving to a certain place, then check out the rules and laws, and availability of housing for people with pets, especially if your pet is really big.
For example, the people next door bought a house because of their Mastiff (not sure which type, but he’s big), and now can’t sell the house because of the market here. They didn’t realize until I told them, this area is very dog friendly, even the big ones like their dog, and they didn’t need to buy. Now they have an unsellable house, maybe unrentable for a decent amount, and they’ll probably never live here again. It all could have been avoided with some research.
My Amer. Bulldog is good with other dogs, cats, kids, and is curious about my horses, but has shown no inclination to chase them, or our Guinea fowl. He’s an older puppy, so more excitable than, say, my mature pit, but when reminded of his manners in a stern voice is very quick to behave. Very sweet, and is very devoted to my 9 yr old son. Worst thing I can say about him is he might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he tries. 
I think the biggest drawback that I have with breeds like this is there isn’t always a clear line between a “mixed breed” and a purebred - sort of like an American Warmblood.
I have never met anyone with a purebred American Bulldog, and while you see other breeds of dogs advertised as “purebred Pitbulls” for example, I would be quite doubtful of their purebred status…not to mention whether or not they were ever bred to any kind of standard.
Add to that the fact that they are a newly developed breed and are often attractive to owners who wish to make a big statement (my dog is scary!)…I would probably avoid this breed as a pet unless I knew a serious breeder of the absolute highest caliber.
Every boxer I’ve ever known has been extremely friendly, although they can be a handful and may not be easy around young kids (they may bowl them over quite easily). I would probably gravitate toward the well-bred (and health checked) lab as well.
AB’s and their similar-looking ilk make up the majority of 60 or so dangerous dogs on the DD list - which does not include the many dogs that were put down after being classified as dangerous - in my county but they are always classified as pitbulls in incident reports because “bulldog” is used to refer to the small and squat kind that people associate with the word “bulldog”. Of those dogs on the list, only several are on there for attacking a human being and all but one of the “bully breeds” - who attacked a human being - on the list are classified as dangerous for attacking/killing small animals - almost all are cat/dog incidents except for a few squirrels - or other dogs. Go to any dog park in the area and you’ll see how poorly behaved and aggressively dominant those dogs are, especially when around others of similar breeds and disposition.
[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;7130413]
You misread what she said. She said that a “big black dogs who won’t actually bite anyone, ever, are your best bet for ‘gaurding’” which is not the same as “black labs never bite.”
I completely agree that a large, dark, but good-natured dog is a much better guard dog then an unpredictable dog regardless of breed.[/QUOTE]
Ahhh…I see how I misread that…sorry :o
Quote Originally Posted by vacation1 View Post
If you’re saying the American Bulldogs are high on “prey drive” but low on aggression, it’s a bit awkward that they’re well-represented in the list of fatal and disfiguring attacks on humans. Not to mention their kill record with other dogs.
actually, I was referring to hounds- sight and scent- who have very high prey drive and eagerly chase and kill small animals, but are very unlikely to bite people or get in dog-fights. American bulldogs are likely to be aggressive. And yes, I agree that many American bulldogs come from sketchy breeders.
great imput here, as always, thanks everyone. I also LOVE labs, but I cant do the layers of coat. For some reason, I am only allergic to labs:( If anyone knows any super boxer or dane breeders, please pm me:)
