I think this is a good time to post this video of a horse that did mind being branded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LTG8FhctnM
Y’all be careful with that branding. It looks more painful for this man than this horse!
Thanks again I still think I could go either way. I have to say tho that I don’t agree with some of the less then nice posts. Not with the opinion of the post but the mean vibe I got from it. As far as the an RPSI horse being looked down on is really exactly what happened in this thread! In reality we are all breeding for the same thing the top show jumpers, Dressage stars… All the warmblood registries have inspections, rules, performance tests, regulations and breeding standards.
As far as the RPSI approving and registering anything:
General Requirements
In order to be registered RPSI, horses must meet certain pedigree requirements. Warmbloods registered with the following recognized warmblood breeding associations are eligible for entry into the Main Mare Book and Stud Book I of the RPSI: Oldenburg ISR, German Oldenburg Verband, Hanoverian, Holsteiner, Trakehner, Swedish Warmblood, Dutch Warmblood, Belgian Warmblood, Westfalian, Rhineland, Bavarian, and Baden-Wurtemburg. Thoroughbred (Jockey Club), Arabian, Anglo-Arabian and Shagya Arabian horses are also eligible for entry into the main breeding books. Breeding books for Knabstruppsers, Sport Ponies and Palominos also exist. Draft crosses, Quarter Horses and other American breeds are eligible for recording into the Pre-Mare and Stud Book II books. Each horse will be personally inspected by the official German Judges
I have done my homework and yes if the QH cross obtains certain scores and who are meeting the Breed Type requirements but do not have pedigree requirements (and are not considered a warmblood) can be registered ad entered in the pre-mare and Stud book II. Their foal would only get white papers and half brand not full pink German papers and a full brand. When you think about it they are a horse capable of getting the scores but just don’t have the “right” parents, you can’t chose your parents!
Please don’t get mad at me, this is what I’ve read and have gone through the website and their rules as I am wondering about having a one of my horses registered/inspected.
Unless you have read the rules of the registry, I don’t think you should comment on things you really know nothing about.
It also says horses can be turned down if not of breed type
Maybe I know after all, I would be proud to own a registered Zweibrücker and have him/her branded.
They would have been inspected by German judges
I would have one more way to identify them if they where stolen and maybe have them microchip too, as a microchip would most likely be unseen and unnoticed.
The number on the brand would be the last number on her German papers under her full brand. And help identify her.
Yes you are taking a chance something may go wrong the brand my not be perfect…but are you not taking a chance if you don’t have them branded? If that brand even deters one thief it would be well worth it in my opinion .
Just a not I respect everyone’s opinion on the subject and hope I have not offended anyone:)
SERIOUSLY people. Please, if you have never seen a foal branding, do not post how painful and awful it is. Really, I had huge issues with this before I saw it ( I dont eat meat ect so I really felt like I was being ahuge hipocrite branding my foals) but I swear, it is a total non event! There were 13 foals done at our inspection and none of them did more than move a foot sideways. The branding area was not even sore afterwards. I always figured it would be like branding cattle, how they bellow and struggle. But I soon realized that it isnt the brand that is causing the distress in cattle, but the handling…being herded up, thrown down and sat on. Cattle are not tame and not used to hands on handling…certianly not like that anyways.
In all honesty, the hair pulling for the DNA caused BY FAR, more of a ruckus.
Secondly, that video of the horse kicking the brander is interesting because now that I know how foals (with very little pain tolerance.) react I can tell that it was more of a case where the horse was not expecting that on his bum all of a sudden and kicked out in suprise or shock, not really in pain.
And thirdly, horses and humans have very different pain tolerances. VERY different. So do not equate branding human flesh to that of a horse.
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I have seen foals branded, and while I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world I think microchipping is better. I wouldn’t think lip tatoos be too much fun either, but I haven’t seen that done. Seems like it would hurt!
I thought that horse looks very very pissed actually. The fact that he hesitates a split second before kicking makes me think it was a reaction to the sensation for burning…which does hurt. Unfortunately for the man, this horse could not move away and retaliated to the insult as best he could. Whatever caused that horse to kick it was not a positive experience for him.
Cervalo…I had no idea your boy was branded. I’ve had him here for months (as a boarder) and never noticed it. I wonder if the way it is done at the WB inspections if it just isn’t held on long enough because they are allowed to move away?
Actually – Cowgirllindz – I’m guessing you’re referring to me because the RSPI isn’t my favorite registry – I do know something about it and yes I will comment. If you don’t like my comments, tough bananas. What I MEANT was that a QH cross would most likely end up at a RSPI inspection because I don’t think other registries are likely to accept them, simply because of their ancestry. Those horses I would not fault. Letting crappy horses into a registry (and I am not referring to QH crosses here) is irresponsible, and I have seen it done. Again, whether you like it or not, it has happened.
In fact, I’ve even gone back and added the one word that changes the meaning of my post all around! :rolleyes:
If you guys are this thin-skinned, you are miserably suited for the business of breeding.
[QUOTE=Donella;3659930]
I always figured it would be like branding cattle, how they bellow and struggle. But I soon realized that it isnt the brand that is causing the distress in cattle, but the handling…being herded up, thrown down and sat on. Cattle are not tame and not used to hands on handling…certianly not like that anyways.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know if you have been to a real cattle branding before, but I can only go from my own experience having seen both cattle and horses branded. I’ve branded thousands of calves in the last few years, and I can tell you that most are rather calm on the ground UNTIL you start branding. Then they struggle, squirm, defecate and ball until the brand comes off. However, before the brand they are easy to hold and generally don’t make a sound.
Branding a cow is different because of the time you have to hold it on for. The horses really only have a moment of pain, and you can touch/rub it 30 seconds later and they will not flinch.
But, brands do go wrong. Here is one that was doubled and the discussion that it was very upsetting to the owner. http://www.ultimatedressage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=136319&highlight=branding I don’t think this one looks any where near as bad as the ones I saw. I had the only foal with a good brand at that inspection.
Most of the problem is how you hold them, but also if you have a timid brander. Always put the foals nose into the mares barrel.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3660048]
Actually – Cowgirllindz – I’m guessing you’re referring to me because the RSPI isn’t my favorite registry – I do know something about it and yes I will comment. If you don’t like my comments, tough bananas. What I MEANT was that a QH cross would most likely end up at a RSPI inspection because I don’t think other registries are likely to accept them, simply because of their ancestry. Those horses I would not fault. Letting crappy horses into a registry (and I am not referring to QH crosses here) is irresponsible, and I have seen it done. Again, whether you like it or not, it has happened.
In fact, I’ve even gone back and added the one word that changes the meaning of my post all around! :rolleyes:
If you guys are this thin-skinned, you are miserably suited for the business of breeding.[/QUOTE]
Actually Grayarabpony, the QH cross could go AWS, Belgian WB, Old NA/ISR as well as RPSI. BUT, it would be in their Pre or II Books as all of these registries have “lower” books for horses who are not eligible for breeding APPROVAL.
As to the rest of your post, you are just plain rude.
Oh no now I’m back up on the fence again:P If not falling over on the other side:lol: What if something goes wrong I would never forgive myself:(
Thanks NoDQhere:)
Personally IMO that horse looks pissed before the man even touches him with the brand. I bet if the man HADNT branded him and had just stood there he still would have gotten kicked.
That reaction to me looks like a pissed off horse, not a horse in excruciating pain.
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[QUOTE=NoDQhere;3660334]
Actually Grayarabpony, the QH cross could go AWS, Belgian WB, Old NA/ISR as well as RPSI. BUT, it would be in their Pre or II Books as all of these registries have “lower” books for horses who are not eligible for breeding APPROVAL.
As to the rest of your post, you are just plain rude.[/QUOTE]
Funny, I have a friend breeding GOV horses (and hosting inspections) whose foundation mare was an Appendix QH, and daughters (and now grandkids and great grandkids) got and continue to get Premiums.
Personally, I think it a great mistake to exclude good horses from a Sport Horse breeding program because of “unconventional” bloodlines. Let us not forget that Galoubet was out of a Standardbred, and there have been many QH GP horses.
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[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;3660017]
Cervalo…I had no idea your boy was branded. I’ve had him here for months (as a boarder) and never noticed it. I wonder if the way it is done at the WB inspections if it just isn’t held on long enough because they are allowed to move away?[/QUOTE]
It’s there, but don’t waste your time looking for it now as wooly as he is. Even in the summer you have to look really hard to see it. I can spot it because I know exactly where to look but most people won’t notice it.
It will be interesting to see if it becomes more visible when he begins work and his hind quarters muscle up and the skin stretches. I hope it does, but it’s no big deal if it doesn’t.
I’ve watched them do the branding at the Oldenburg and RPSI inspections and you are right, they only touch the brand for a second or less. Some of the RPSI babies reacted more strongly than the Oldenburg babies but the RPSI branding iron is a little larger in size. My mother went with me to the Oldenburg inspection and before we got there she told me she did NOT want to watch the branding. I assured her it was nothing like the cowboy movies. She admitted afterward that it wasn’t as bad as she thought it would be.
I’ve actually seen the branding also at an AWS inspection and had a horse branded myself…this was back in the 1990’s. He was older…about 3 and he did react strongly to the feel of the iron. I had little doubt that it hurt him and he moved away from the pain quickly with much snorting and drama. He was not a drama type horse so his reaction impressed me. No, it didn’t cause him great long lasting distress but I always wondered if it was “worth” it. After a short time, I couldn’t read it anyway…it was just a smudged scarred area on his flank. Mine was a double image also and it was not well done.
I honestly never noticed Cervelo’s brand in the summer either. I’ve noticed Majic’s.
In the grand scheme of things I hardly think it is cruel or horrible to do it. I won’t brand my own horses that way…we don’t have a “breed” brand anyway. If I did do them, it would be a freeze brand done under sedation and I’d do something that would actually help identify them to either my farm or as an individual as the angle code used on Arabs or BLM horses.
I branded my colt when he was 1 1/2 years old. The brand is still very visible - better in the summer of course, and better when he is “slicked up”. He had little to no reaction - he snorted more at the smell of the hair than the sting of the brand I think honestly. The right side of his antlers is slightly smuged from when they took the brand off - he never moved so that is all I can think of when it happened.
I will brand again - have several babies that are due actually. And I brand because I like the brand on his/her hip. That being said, I REALLY DISLIKE the ATA half brand - my very personal opinion is that it is the ugliest brand in history so my horses won’t get that brand even if they are elig for it.
I think that the discomfort or the horse’s surprise to the brand is 100% caused by the brander themselves. If he/she is a good brander it is over almost before it begins and the horse smells the hair burnign before any “pain” registers. I’ve seen very good branders and this is always the case. I have watched one brander within the ATA and almost none of the horses he brands reacts except to snort or flick ears (the only one I ever saw leap around when he branded him was a pretty rank colt that was leaping around just being held outside the branding pen). I’ve also seen mediocre branders within the ATA and they do get more reaction - those horse will move sideways or forwards. A lot of it has to do with the way the horse is approached. Good brander is confident in his abilities, not afraid of the horse and not timid holding the branding iron. Mediocre brander is more hesitant coming up to the horse with the iron and isn’t as “confident”.
They (horses) react to us pretty much the way we approach them right? Branding is just an extension of this.
All just my very personal opinion and observations (and btw - I try and arrange for this brander that I like very much to be the brander of my horses LOL).
The video of the kicking horse has so much wrong. First, basic horsemanship rule is to have the holder on the same side as whoever is working on the horse. That puts the horse’s body in a different “bend” and the kick would go in a different direction. With the handler there, he can also help to block the horse’s view, because the flame/smoke can scare them if they see it.
The handler’s job is to make sure the horse is standing firmly on the leg, and press back a bit shoulder and halter to “weight” the hind leg. Nose into the mare to limit and delay any forward lurch. Mentally, that is important, because they are already where they want to be if scared, nose at mom’s side.
The brander should also be standing at the barrel of the horse, with one hand on the horse, and ALWAYS touching/rubbing the area first with his free hand. (Sometimes there is a 3rd person that does this and can push the horse away as the brand comes off) The place that the brander stands also helps to block the horse’s view. Just before branding the brander will place his hand on the side of the horse, then quickly and firmly press the brand, and push/walk away.
The video brander is taking too much time, looks like he kind of rolled the brand on, and is in a stupid position. The brand also needs to be really hot to deaden the nerve.
A GOOD brander can make it easy. If you are worried, watch the brander do a few before deciding. You will find out how good they are. It is like giving shots. Some nurses/vets, it doesn’t hurt much at all, but some are awful and get bad reactions.
I did host inspections for the AWS for 5 years, and I did not see any of the brands go badly. We had 3 different inspectors/branders, and I was actually quite pleased to see they had good skills. The horse I had branded AWS it is pretty clear, and visable 8 years later. That horse was actually branded twice that day. The first with the AWS brand, and 2 minutes later with the diamond above it, but the diamond is not visable, and could be redone if convenient. The brander at the time did know the diamond was not a good set, as she immediately brushed off the singed hair to take a good look, but it looked ok to me, and I didn’t want it doubled. I was wrong, and she was definitely right.
I have watched branding from 6 different registries, with only the one inspection going badly. The best branding was actually the same registry though, the year before - all beautiful brands. I think they must have sent a learner guy across the pond. 
And what are you, besides rude and condescending? :lol: You’re always rude and condescending.
Apparently you have some problems with reading comprehension. I said LIKELY. There is an approved Belgian stallion who has an Appendix QH dam. He’s already been discussed on this forum – Victory Gallop. In fact you yourself asked, where in the world is his pedigree? and tri told you why, in all of the usual places.
It’s a gimme that a QH cross could go to the AWS. :rolleyes: Since such a horse is an American Warmblood.
It’s time to put you on ignore and keep you there.
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;3660334]
Actually Grayarabpony, the QH cross could go AWS, Belgian WB, Old NA/ISR as well as RPSI. BUT, it would be in their Pre or II Books as all of these registries have “lower” books for horses who are not eligible for breeding APPROVAL.
As to the rest of your post, you are just plain rude.[/QUOTE]
If I am “rude” – then you are very rude and condescending. :lol:
You’re having problems with reading comprehension again. :no: I did use the word LIKELY. There is an approved Belgian Warmblood stallion who has an Appendix QH dam – he’s already been discussed on this forum. In fact, you asked where in the world was his pedigree, and tri said, why, in all the usual places.
It’s time to put you on ignore and keep you there. :yes:
[QUOTE=fish;3661123]
Funny, I have a friend breeding GOV horses (and hosting inspections) whose foundation mare was an Appendix QH, and daughters (and now grandkids and great grandkids) got and continue to get Premiums.
Personally, I think it a great mistake to exclude good horses from a Sport Horse breeding program because of “unconventional” bloodlines. Let us not forget that Galoubet was out of a Standardbred, and there have been many QH GP horses.[/QUOTE]
This was just discussed on another thread that turned nasty. What Sport Horse breeders want to do is their business, but the WB registries will continue to be pretty careful when it comes to “unconventional” bloodlines. Lets not go there again.
And Galoubet’s dam was NOT a Standardbred. French Trotter and Standardbred are not the same. Galoubet’s dam was a jumper. There is a picture of her on the pedigree site: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/viti3
