What makes someone a "Trainer" or Dressage instructor?

[four2farm]

There is also the trainer who is qualified even brilliant but just unable to communicate effectively. The ability to coach riders to top levels does not necessarily include business acumen.

I had the luck to have exposure to several great role models. Accomplished, educated, horse people. The ability to ride and train does not directly correlate into the ability to tell someone else how to do it. There are trainers who have charm, wit, leadership and business smarts who are not great riders. There are amazing riders who should be gagged in public spaces and would never be allowed to have a checking account.

The correct coach/trainer for a rider/horse is one that improves them, that can communicate effectively with the rider/horse bringing them to the next level. Coaches and trainers are not a one stop shop. Look at top riders, how many coaches have had a hand in producing them? Why do we not follow the same route?

As a very good trainer once told me " learn from every person who has anything to do with a horse. Keep your mouth shut, ears and eyes open. Then judge accordingly because learning what does not make the horse better is often more valuable than what does make him better"

The pricing thing to me is easy. Professionals charge what people are willing to pay. That amount is different in Wellington than it is in Wherever. If Trainer is getting a $100 bucks to ignore you on flat, then trainer B must not be as good because he is only charging $95. So many factors decide price, but we are all guilty, if something feels too cheap, it must be somehow less than ideal. I think anyone who price shops trainers is starting on the wrong foot. Yes, budget is key. Set budget parameters, then look for all options within that budget. Then forget price. Then it is about communication, improvement and enjoyment. If you are not getting all three it is time to move along to the next candidate.

I know that many have had bad experiences, we all have, this industry is full of posers, wanna be’s, control freaks and worse. We are not alone, try to get your car fixed or your house remodeled. This is just more personal to us because it involves hopes, dreams and living creatures who are so fragile. So for them, we have to be careful…

[YankeeDuchess]

You say that people should not “price shop” trainers, but then say they should set their budget and then pick the best trainer within their budget without regard to price (as long as it’s within budget). This is a form of intelligently shopping according to price.
If by “price shopping” you mean just taking the lowest price trainer, regardless of quality, obviously that’s a bad idea.
At any given price, you want the best available at that price. Once you’ve identified the best available at each price, you can then ask whether the $200 more a month for the slightly better trainer is worth it or not.
I currently have a trainer who charges significantly less than most in the area, but it’s because she’s just starting out and trying to build up her clientele. In the past, I’ve paid higher rates, and could afford to now, but I think she is fabulous, despite the relative inexperience.

[four2farm]

My experience is the same.

@YankeeDuchess

You say that people shop not “price shop” trainers, but then say they should set their budget and then pick the best trainer within their budget without regard to price (as long as it’s within budget). This is a form of intelligently shopping according to price.

Very true, it is. In my area there are trainers who charge well over $100 per session. I am just not going to pay that, not for my level, my horses level or my future desires.
Yes, that is price shopping or in my opinion budget consciousness. If I or my horse was “worthy” then yes, I would pay that amount. I am just not that interested currently in doing any thing other than improvement and enjoyment. I also fully understand those programs are show based, you show or you get left behind. That is the business plan, no problem with it, just not for me.

I understand for many people budget restrictions mean that a trainer of that value would just not be feasible along other commitments and horse ownership. Yes, to the wealthy, the ability to ride with whomever at whatever cost must be nice. Training costs would not negatively impact their ability to show, go to clinics, events, upgrade tack, etc. For the majority of horse owners this is not the case. I have seen many riders spend outside their budget to train with a certain professional. The stress of trying to keep up financially saps the enjoyment, adds stress, overburdens expectations and leads to early burn out.

I set an upper limit of $100. I looked at every coach south of that number. At that point session cost was no longer a consideration in the remaining pool. Then it was about program, facility, resume, location, results, recommendations, schedule, options and plain compatibility. When I made the decision of where I was going to ride, the one chosen was actually the least expensive, with the least facility and the farthest from home. What made the decision was a coach/ trainer who had a long term solid program, lots of wonderful horses and we were highly compatible. My riding is improving, I feel safe with the idea of her caring for my boy and I am enjoying getting to know my barn family. If the day comes where I am not feeling all of the above I will move on to the next program.

I agree that to go with a program because it is $20 less a session is setting one’s self up to fail. Sadly, MANY people do use that as the deciding factor. I know one who, is doing it right now. I hear her lesson stories (many that make me cringe). According to videos she has shown me, her riding position has not improved in fact, declined. When I recommend other coaches who would be a better fit, she cannot afford two lessons a week there, they are not going to let her show there. I refuse to bad mouth her coach, I can just patiently suggest.

[Dep274]

This is just my opinion. I have a few different people I ride with. One of my instructors is the whole package she can ride my horse on bad days, load my horse when he is bad, coach me at shows and even trailer my horse if need to be so I call her a trainer. A few of my other instructors can only instruct, even though they want to be called a trainer they will not get on my horse and ride the horse to fix a problem or get evolved with ground issues. So I call these types instructors and a coach if they show up at the show. Also, think about it like on the recognized Usdf Usef entry, the trainer is who is responsible for the horse.

I think a few were talking about qualifications. I started my horse at intro and I have ridden up the levels I’m currently doing 4th level. I watch intro/ lower level riders taking from folks who have never shown past 1st level who claim to be dressage trainers and I cringe. The lower level riding instructors will more than likely be teaching inadequately and incorrect. Intro riders are very vulnerable and don’t need to be picking up bad habits right off the bat… I personally won’t ride with anyone who has not recieved a gold medal. I have ridden with bronze medalists who have been in the L program and the lessons were a joke and at 1st level I just didn’tknow any better… Again you need to do some research on the USDF scores check out if the horse was already doing that level or did they teach it, what was there scores etc… Alot of riders will borrow a schoolmaster ride it 2nd level get there scores go thru the L program start teaching for $100 and not actually be super knowledgeable and that can even go for any medalist… I will say though they will have a great eye, know what to look for and be good at judging and know the directives to second level. Happy riding!

[BigMama1]

I actually wrote a blog on this topic a few years ago, based on a very powerful Facebook post from a local trainer at respect very much I think her advice covers all the key points:

1. Understand the difference between a riding instructor and a dressage trainer. There are lots of talented instructors out there but before promoting themselves as a trainer who specializes in dressage, someone should have successfully TRAINED multiple horses THEMSELVES up the levels. To what level will depend somewhat on your own goals, but most of the people I’ve talked to agree that Third Level is a reasonable minimum standard.

2. The horses they train and the riders they teach should consistently move up the levels. The easiest way to verify progress is through show scores and most recognized shows will list the trainer on the results sheet, if you want to do a little anonymous Google research first. However, a reputable trainer should have no problem sharing verifiable results with potential clients. Showing isn’t everything and there are obviously many good coaches who don’t compete, for a variety of reasons. Without competition results, however, it’s tough to verify someone’s claim of training multiple horses to FEI levels, or to identify a clear and consistent pattern of students progressing up the levels.

3. Choose someone whose experience matches your goals. If your goal is Grand Prix, it doesn’t make sense to train with someone who has never ridden anything higher than a Third Level test, does it? If your goal is to compete, then choose a trainer who is not only successful in the show ring themselves, but whose students are successful too.

4. Find a trainer whose training program and teaching approach are a good fit for you personally. This is not a license to become an armchair expert and tell your coach which methods, exercises and gadgets they should be using, based on the latest training article or dressage forum thread you read! You’re paying for their expertise and you need to trust in their methods. But their teaching schedule must work for your lifestyle. The care at their barn (if you are boarding and not just shipping in) must meet your standards. If you lack confidence or need a lot of positive reinforcement in order to learn well, a trainer with a “tough love” style of communicating may not be the ideal choice for you.

5. Choose someone who is committed to their own development as a rider and trainer. Dressage is a sport of life-long learning. A good pro recognizes that they benefit from skilled help as much as the rest of us and will regularly take lessons themselves, participate in clinics, and / or compete at shows.

6. Do your homework. Look up scores, and fact check any credentials, awards and accomplishments they claim to hold. Ask for references from past and current clients, and follow up with them.

[Lunabear1988]

@Dep274 @BigMama1
You both make great points! Right now I’m in a tough spot, so I have to make do with the less than ideal but need to keep an eye on my goals. My right now is to ride a Third level test competently. This is my goal not in a competitive sense but because I know that would be a progressing quite a bit as a rider. I’ve that as my goal because I’m not sure if I’m capable of more. But I’m so passionate about dressage, progressing beyond would be great. Ideally I’d work with someone who has trained to GP. But Right now I’m horseless (horse shopping in a crazy market) and can’t afford the barns with full on Dressage programs. Those start at $1000/$1500 a month for board, not training.

So I’m working with those who will travel/have lesson horses while horseless.

So I’m working with a Bronze Medalist and occasionally a Silver medalist. Both have experiences with off breeds. Both have had successful students at least to third level. I don’t feel this will be a long term situation for me, but it’s working for now. Just having eyes on my position, or my lateral work is helpful!

[BigMama1]

If Third Level is your goal you don’t need to work with someone who has trained to Grand a Prix. But definitely find someone who has trained horses from Training to Third, competed at a third, and whose students have moved along from Training to Third.

If you and your new horse (one you find the right one) are both learning at the same time it’s really (I mean REALLY) helpful to have that trainer ride your horse regularly too, to keep them progressing and undo the kind of issues like crookedness or lack of forward we all tend to install and not notice. It doesn’t have to be an expensive 5 day a week full training program. But a regular ride once a week or even once every couple of weeks can make a big difference

[Lunabear1988]

@BigMama1 absolutely! Both trainers have trained a few up to third and have helped students do the same. The Silver medalist as has a client at PSG.

Most trainers have placed me as a Second level rider. I’ve been lucky to have access to some schoolmasters along the way (in addition to my greenies.) I’ve schooled some Third level movements but I have so much to master to put a nice test together, no matter the horse I’m on lol!! I definitely plan on some training rides along the way even just occasionally.

[TheDBYC]

I’m a music teacher & find dressage pedagogy similar to music pedagogy in many ways. The two primary being: 1) it really takes more skill to start a beginner correctly than it does to work with more advanced students. 2) the best teachers usually fall into two catagories; a) accomplished, active performer, or b) less active or even non-performer with an extensive education, brilliant technician with an innate feel
for how to convey incredibly complex concepts in simple terms to students with a wide variety of learning styles, and a healthy pool of students out there achieving recognized success.

If I had to relate it to another sport, I would pick the Brazilian black belt my jiu jitsu gym is affiliated under. He has a verifiable competition record at the international record, but it is only a fraction of the size of what most guys at that level possess. Doesn’t really compete at all anymore, though he’s physically able to. However, he’s regarded as an absolute technical genius with an almost unparalleled understanding of the game & corners for some of the best fighters in the world in competition. And produces international level competitors from his student pool regularly.

I took a few clinics from a German Riding Master that I would put into that same niche as a coach – no mile long competition record of his own, but regularly producing risers & horses to GP. I’m suspicious of those trainers I see with a USDF bronze as their only qualification, for example, unless they’re regularly producing decent horses from scratch & have a significant number of active, successful students.

[MsM]

As a more educated rider, you should be able to sort through instructors available to you to find those that work for you. Some instructors love teaching people and for various reasons never progress their show riding to upper levels. They can still be great choices for many riders if they have great basics and teaching methodology. Of course at some point you may “outgrow” them and they should be fine with that.

One of the things I like to know about a potential instructor is who they work with (or used to if circumstances no longer allow). You have to be careful that they really took some regular instruction and didnt just clinic once with this person but I have found it can be a good way to know if their philosophy would fit with mine and to also get the second-hand benefit of the Big Name I Dont Have Access To.

I just wish I had regular access to an instructor! My favorite instructor (Gold medal rider, has worked with people I admire and has a style that works for me) is from out of state so with Covid I had all of one lesson in 2020! There is another instructor that is very accomplished that I could have worked with, but she doesnt work well for me. Took a couple of lessons on two different horses over the years and she charges a lot yet ended my lessons on off-breed horses early, saying they “had enough” (they were not tired!) and I really did not have useful takeaways from the lessons. She seemed more invested in the lessons with WBs. So sometimes you dont know until you try with an instructor. Fortunately I have a BO who is good H/J person and can be good eyes on the ground and nag “Sit up!”

[Lunabear1988]

Absolutely agree. I’ve had quite a few people reach out to me to ride/lease their 3rd level to PSG horses saying that I could easily get my Bronze medal this year (or in the last few years.) This would no doubt be still be a great accomplishment that would require great work and skill on my part. But I find it rediculous to think anyone might think I would then be qualified to teach Dressage lessons simply because I was able to do.

Like you said, much more to it than that!

[Lunabear1988]

@MsM Covid is making things way harder right now! I totally understand that. I’m trying to not get frustrated.

[Willesdon]

There seem to be more and more trainers working remotely. It might be worth looking to see who is available.

[Lunabear1988]

Yes I just got a Pivo to video rides. Which is helpful in many ways!!

[TheDBYC]

Yes, indeed. I have the USDF Bronze is on my to do list as a credential for the rider-centered part of my yoga offerings. I have a spooky good eye for rider/horse alignment (so I’m told). But that’s just because I see kinetic energy from my reiki work. In no way shape or form do I consider myself remotely qualified to actually teach riding!

Funny story that illustrates your point – I take dressage lessons with an amazing eventing trainer. She was always serious about her dressage, but even more so when her personal horse made it known he would be much happier as a pure dressage pony. I mentioned the Bronze as a 1-2 year goal for me. She thought my timetable was nuts until I told her “only” 1st-3rd level was involved. After verifying the requirements, she decided to try it, and she and the Dragon knocked it out in 3 consecutive weekends. One try for each test & won their class all 6 times.

That horse is extraordinarily athletic & scopey, but a ball of anxiety. You never know what you’re going to get with him at a competition. And they still pulled it off 6 for 6. I get where the jump from bronze & silver may necessitate a gap – far fewer horses capable of PSG than 3rd level are just floating around. And earning the gold certainly requires a degree of financial outlay for a prospect that may be impossible for a good many. Yet, I think bronze & silver should be doable numerous times over for a competent trainer.

[Scribbler]

In Canada I understand the medals system to be primarily an incentive system designed for adult amateurs. I rarely see it among the advertised credentials for trainers. They are more likely to advertise competition experience.

I would say that our local pros probably divide into the lower level trainers for whom Bronze (training first second in Canada) with the required scores would be a challenge because you can bring home rosettes with a score of 59 in a small class. And the higher level pros who could do it like this example in a couple of weeks, and for whom there is therefore no distinction value.

We do have an Equine Canada coaching certificate program, which imposes some standards. A coach would do that first because it significantly lowers your coaching insurance. But you don’t need it to teach, and many higher level coach riders never bother. Especially if they are dedicated dressage and can’t be bothered refreshing themselves on the jump part of the exam.

[Lunabear1988]

That brings up another good point! Some instructors/trainers just don’t have the knowledge or eye for rider biomechanics. Our bodies can do weird things! It’s not always an easy fix either and sometimes you need someone with a more in depth understanding. Or vice versa for the horse training part.

I’ve known other Eventers who also decided to go for their Bronze like that. Honestly, I think they should be able to do that fairly easily, as professionals.

[Lunabear1988]

I definitely know a handful of Amateurs who have gotten medals but it’s definitely a common thing trainer’s advertise with her. I think for some, better to advertise that than some very low scores otherwise?

[TheDBYC]

I would love to see the USDF split the US medal system into pro & AA. Lord knows that will never happen, as it ties into the whole USEF dumpster fire that rages on as we speak.

[MsM]

Wait, aren’t the rider medals determined by getting qualifying scores at the required levels? Nothing about placements or competing with Pros. So what is the need to have separate programs?