What’s the purpose of a pro-ride?

[DawgLady]

I don’t know you, your horse, or your trainers, but I know my own experience. My young horse gets two training rides a week, and it makes him MORE rideable for me. Pretty sure that’s the whole idea. If you’re experiencing the opposite, you probably need to be brave and make a change.

IMO, the trainer’s job isn’t just to make the horse go well. It’s to make the horse go well for its owner. If you’re not getting that, then this isn’t the right pro for your horse.

Also, you keep describing your horse in words like fresh, fresh, fresh, avoiding, frustrating, not listening. That does not sound like a happy, relaxed horse. And all the freshness seems weird in a horse that’s being ridden 6x/week. What’s his turnout situation?

[findeight]

No Pro can get your horse going well for YOU if you do not ride and treat your horse the same way as that Pro. You are speaking different languages to the horse. Should not expect horse to act the same…and if you don’t like the way the riding Pro teaches or rides? Don’t understand what you are expecting from your horse???

Doesn’t sound like these two trainers use the same “ system” to teach and train and just are not on the same page and maybe both have lost track of what should be their mutual goal- getting your horse to where YOU can ride it? Or maybe they see you as a pushover easy mark to treat like a mushroom?

Whatever, its not working and too much money to throwaway on frustrating to downright bad! day ruining, confidence destroying rides with no help from either to fix. You are stuck.

Understand career limits the time you can spend, that’s NOT your fault. Great to care about teaching trainer who cannot ride but….how is that helping you? Good to have access to a riding trainer but, since they teach and train differently, how is that helping you?

We tend to get too attached to our trainers to the point we worry more about disappointing them then making progress and having barn time be our oasis.

When you start being frustrated, disappointed, shedding tears after rides and dreading going to the barn to ride at all? Its not working at all and wastes your time, energy and money.

Need to think carefully about moving to a barn that meets your needs for both lessons and Pro rides either by the same trainer or two trainers on the same page who you like working with. Really, if I don’t like the way somebody rides my horse? Why would I pay for them to ride my horse? If I have terrible rides the day after I pay somebody to ride my horse? Why would I pay them to ride it the day before I ride?

You need to change. Try asking about another training rider but if teaching trainer cant come up with one? You need a program better suited to your needs.

[Paint_Party]

@DawgLady

IMO, the trainer’s job isn’t just to make the horse go well. It’s to make the horse go well for its owner.

@findeight

Doesn’t sound like these two trainers use the same “ system” to teach and train and just are not on the same page and maybe both have lost track of what should be their mutual goal- getting your horse to where YOU can ride it?

Both of these remarks say pretty much what I’d say.

The pro rides/training rides done at my barn accomplish two things:

1. Schooling the horse, thereby making it easier for the rider/owner to progress
2. Identifying issues that the horse has, and how they might be best addressed in the rider’s lessons

Furthermore, when I ride horses for my trainer (this is primarily a western performance barn), I’m given specific instructions for each horse: what I’m supposed to work on and any struggles the owner is having when she rides the horse. We’re all part of a team working toward a common goal.

Instead, it sounds like the pro rider has one style of riding that doesn’t complement or mesh with your trainer’s methodology. No wonder you and your horse are confused and frustrated.

[2DogsFarm]

Adding:
Not always “Pro” rides that are Not.So.Good.
I had a boarder - Type AA personality, practicing attorney who was going to Med school so she could specialize in Medical Law - rode only in a weekly lesson with my trainer & the rare ride by herself, in the arena.
** But** every time I got on after she rode, horse told me turning left was not in the playbook anymore.
So I’d spend the first 20min or so of my ride reinstalling the Left Turn.
If horse had been worse or harder to correct, I’d have kicked her off.

[lenapesadie]

I’ve had 3 different pros ride my horse and a 4th pro helped me with some lunging issues prior to starting horse under saddle. I felt each one gave me and my horse very valuable information. We all worked as a team to further mine and the horse’s education.

If I felt I wasn’t getting good value, I’d not be having that pro ride my horse.

I’m a bit concerned that you’ve asked to skip the pro rides and they’ve been done anyways. Everyone and every program is different of course, but that wouldn’t fly with me. As long as it’s my horse and I’m footing the bill, I’m calling the shots.

[AAHunterGal]

Pro rides, for me, are meant to:

1. Give me another perspective on my horse - I want my trainer to always tell me how it went after the ride.
2. Allow my trainer to “feel” what they’re seeing from the ground during lessons and have more insight into my horse.
3. Give my horse the experience of multiple riders.
4. Allow someone else to fill in gaps (I for example, am not great at installing lead changes - happy to have the pro do that.)

If the above things aren’t happening, then pro rides aren’t worth it to me. So having someone else ride than is giving lessons wouldn’t work for me UNLESS it’s a program where the pro rider rides under the eye of the trainer and/or has been with said trainer for a long time (there are a lot of places where the person who rides/shows isn’t the trainer, but they work together beautifully).

For me, I like my pro ride early in the week, so that the pro can more easily ride through any freshness from time off and I myself get an easier horse to deal with.

From your schedule, it seems like it’s pretty packed - maybe your horse is just really tired by the end of the week after you riding for three days, then two pro rides (who often “work” a horse more than I would), THEN a lesson? Is your schedule dictating this cadence / could your horse get another day off instead of the second ride?

This would be a new potential schedule to try:

Monday - off
Tuesday - Pro ride
Wednesday - Flat lesson with cavaletti
Thursday - Flat
Friday - Off or trail ride / property walkabout
Saturday - Pro ride
Sunday - Jump lesson

Would that be doable?

[Janet]

@PennyPony425

The professional has good rides, and then I get on the day after and have the worst ride of the week. It’s like we take 10 steps backwards. Shouldn’t the professional be having difficult rides?
…
. I’ve been working on collection and respect of a half halt and my seat and he is unbelievably fussy, heavy, and sensitive in his mouth after she has ridden him. If he has less rides with her, he is typically better for me.

I am confused at how a horse is both “heavy and sensitive in his mouth”. Those sound like opposites to me

it’s getting to the point where I’m considering selling him.

I’d consider cancelling the “pro rides”, or, if the trainer won’t agree, changing trainers before I would consider selling the horse.

Anytime I have ever been sent a video I have hated what I saw. Recently a trot with him flinging his head up and down, maybe it was bugs touching his nose? And swapping behind in downward transitions.

That doesn’t sound to me like “the professional has good rides”.

[ThreeWishes]

When I first bought my horse he was in a program with 2 pro rides per week. The pro was a lovely rider who could make a giraffe look like an Olympic contender, so I had full faith in her abilities and appreciated how she trained my horse. What really worked for us is that we made the pro rides into what we called half and halfs. She rode for 30 minutes while I watched and then I got on rode for the final 30 minutes. This worked so well because I could watch her and understand what she was trying to accomplish and then was able to attempt the same. It also worked because I had faith and respect for her talent / abilities. Kept us on the same page. It sounds like you don’t have the same faith in your pro. It also worked because the pro was my coach and the person who I did individual lessons with. Perhaps you need to find a pro who you take lessons with and also is able to ride ?

[BeeHoney]

In the context as you describe it, those pro rides should definitely be centered on making the horse MORE, not less rideable and enjoyable for you. Based on your description of how the horse goes, the short answer is to figure out a better weekly regimen for your horse that does not include this professional. The pro rides should come from a different professional or depending on your barn’s policies, a trainers assistant or another amateur rider.

There are a number of reasons why your horse might go worse for you after the pro has ridden them: 1) The pro rides well but in a very different style from you. 2) The pro is riding the horse too hard and the horse is tired or cranky then for when you ride it–some horses perform optimally with more hacking days or rest days. 3) The pro is using a piece of tack or equipment that doesn’t fit well and that is leaving residual discomfort 4) the trainer is not actually a good rider/trainer or their riding style is not a good match for your horse. 5) Someone other than the pro is riding the horse (i.e. pro teaches a student a lesson on the horse, not riding it themselves).

[mfglickman]

Seems the pro is a relative newcomer to your horse; you didn’t have her when you were seeking a new bit in early March. Maybe you, she, and the trainer need a meeting to talk about your goals and what their plan is to get you closer to them?

Bit for a tricky mare

Hoping for some bit recommendations for my horse. It seems I might be looking for a unicorn bit… I need something to encourage softness but I still need control as our current issue at the canter is that she will grab the bit and build, and in certain bits she will ignore a half-halt and I can’t get her back easily. She tends to canter with her mouth wide open if I use too much hand (physical causes ruled out) and the more I pull the more unhappy her mouth gets. Leverage bits make her curl behin…

https://forum.chronofhorse.com/t/bit-for-a-tricky-mare/770046

[candyappy]

@PennyPony425

Unfortunately I work long days when he gets his pro rides. Anytime I have ever been sent a video I have hated what I saw. Recently a trot with him flinging his head up and down, maybe it was bugs touching his nose? And swapping behind in downward transitions.

Sounds like it is the “supposed” pro that is the problem.

They may be a decent enough rider to be called a pro but that doesn’t mean they can be a good choice for every single horse they ride.

Take the pro off immediately . Why can’t your trainer ride him instead?

ETA: I see your trainer is currently not able to ride. Can she find someone else until she can?

[BigMama1]

I would start with changing the pro before changing horses. And I would aim to have the same pro teaching you and doing training rides.

[showy]

I haven’t read all the responses but if your horse isn’t going better for you after these “pro rides” stop paying for them.

[js]

Firstly, since the pro is using a different saddle and bridle/bit, that would be the first place I would make sure your tack is fitting correctly and that isn’t the issue.

Find a pro/instructor that can ride your horse and give you lessons. It sounds like your horse knows what he needs to do but gets confused when you ride. As someone that had a horse that knew his job I needed to refine my skills to ride him correctly. Work on you and your skills/feel, this may take more then just one lesson a week. While you could be over horsed at the moment that doesn’t mean you can’t learn to ride him you just need to find the right person to help you get there.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Voice of reason here:

It might be you… it might be the pro… but the bottom line is that the point is not to make Dobbin into an Olympic athlete… the point is so that you can enjoy the horse. If you’re not having fun and feel like things are just worse every time you’re on them after pro rides, it’s time to try a different program. End the relationship amicably and you may find that it’s something totally different and not the pro (maybe it’s ulcers, maybe it’s teeth, maybe it’s tack)… and once that’s addressed, you might come back. You might not because you might find that horse goes better in a different program. You might even find out that the horse isn’t a good fit for you and needs to find a new home. So many options, but bottom line, you’re footing the bill and not having fun. Take it from me, that’s no way to live and it will just drive you crazy. The job is to set the horse up for you… if it’s becoming increasingly frustrating and no fun… then it’s time to change the setting.

[Equisis]

The “point” of pro rides is many- to make a more rideable horse for you, to fill in gaps in training, to gain insight into training issues, etc. If they’re not working for you, you can choose to investigate further (maybe horse is getting tired/sore, maybe he is getting a little too tuned up and is frustrated with the change in riders, maybe pro does a terrible job, etc) or you can just terminate the rides. Without us being able to see, no one can really give you more insight than that.

I would strongly suggest that going forward, you try to get your pro rides and lessons from the same trainer. As a trainer, it is frustrating for me to be doing one or the other, but not both. I have had horses on my training ride schedule that I feel are being set up for failure because the lesson instructor doesn’t have the same insight into the horse and is instructing the owner in a way that I know doesn’t work for the horse. I have also been frustrated teaching a rider on a horse who is getting rides that make the horse MORE difficult for the rider, because the other trainer isn’t familiar with the rider and doesn’t understand what they need. This is a less than ideal situation for ALL of you- you, the horse, and both pros- and if you really need the pro rides, I would consider finding an instructor who can also do them for you.

[findeight]

If you have asked teaching trainer to give the horse the day off and she has the other Pro ride him anyway? Why do you allow that?

It could be horse is tired, sour, needs a vet workup, equipment does not fit. But why do you need to tell the trainer? Problem solving is part of their job description, they should be telling you? And why did you have to post on here horse was pulling you and you needed a different bit? That is why you are paying a Pro.

It could be you, why doesn’t teaching trainer work with you on these problems? Maybe its the wrong horse for you, why has trainer not suggested this to you? Or are they more interested in the continued income stream you provide? Did this trainer sell you this horse?

Thing that bothers me most is that horse is running out and stopping with you? When (not if) you come off, you will likely be moving with some speed and end up hitting part of the fence. You could get hurt and trainer really ought not to have you jumping that horse right now. You cant miss work for avoidable injury.

There may be more to this story and we dont have trainers side. But, based on what has been shared on here, this is not the right training program for this OP and this horse at this time.

JMIO based on what has been shared, horse is working too hard too many days a week every week and needs some rest, a vet visit and likely routine maintenance to deal with age/mileage related arthritic changes in joints and possibly back. Has trainer discussed these possibilities?

One other quick thought. The behavior you have described here and on the earlier thread about the bit? Its consistent with pain related behavior which would get worse with a heavier work schedule as he is in now on. He’s trying to tell you something, listen. And, no, he wont try to tell the Pro rider because he fears discipline more then the pain.

Give it some thought. And get him off that schedule,

[RedHorses]

1. You don’t like what you have seen of the pro’s rides on your horse, and haven’t seen enough to know if the reported “good ride” actually was a good ride.

2. You don’t like the methods the pro teaches their students.

3. You have bad rides after the pro has ridden your horse.

4. The less the pro rides your horse the better your own rides are.

To me this adds up to - Get this pro out of your horse’s life. Give it a couple of weeks and then decide if anything else (like vet work ups, saddle fitting) is necessary.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

That thread is about a mare, and this thread is about a gelding, so a different horse?

[IPEsq]

It sounds like this program isn’t working for your horse. And this horse also may not be the horse for you. Seems like he’s either too green or too hot blooded or both for your comfort. The top green part could be fixed with pro rides from the right person, but it sounds like his nature also doesn’t work well for you.

If you want to keep him, I’d stop these pro rides and discuss with your trainer about changing the program. If not amenable, you might have to move to a different program. If you don’t want to keep this horse, it seems it would be better to send him out to a different pro for sale. And have a real discussion with your trainer about the horse you actually need and what that might look like with your budget. If they keep matching you with too hot, unsuitable horses, you’ve got to move on to someone that is a better fit for you.