[QUOTE=JB;8797697]
It’s proven there is a link between long-term high sugar diets, and development of insulin resistance. It’s the same as people eating high sugar diets for years, and the increased risk of developing Type II Diabetes.
The harder a horse or person works, the more they can absorb that high sugar diet, and to some extent they need a higher carb diet. But even for people, this is in terms of breads and pastas, not candy bars.
Given that studies show too many horses are deficient in magnesium, there’s a valid reason that is one of the first things suggested. That doesn’t mean it IS the problem, but it’s not just some crazy thing someone pulled out of their hat.
And why wouldn’t one jump to IR when presented with a fat, foot-sore horse, given that IR easily makes horses foot-sore when allowed to be fat and on too much grass or high sugar hay? It’s an easy thing to test for, and is easy to start addressing if it’s present. If the horse is just fine in that area, then of course look for another reason. But why wouldn’t you want to rule out the more obvious issue first?
I’m not sure what that had to do with the discussion though. But since you lumped it with magnesium, it’s also a fact that many IR horses need more Mg than the average horse in order to deal with the glucose they aren’t otherwise dealing with very well.
I’m not sure why it seems like “borderline too thin” is ok with you? I would not be happy with a situation if 10lb of feed didn’t change a horse’s weight at all, especially if they are also on free choice hay and/or grass. That tells me something is wrong - deworming, teeth, IR issues, something. Or you simply chose the wrong feed, high in sugar, which gave you hot horses burning off the calories they were eating, and therefore not gaining weight. It’s just not that difficult to put weight on an otherwise healthy horse who is “borderline too thin” on just forage, when a good quality feed is chosen
Most normal v/m supplements, those fed at 1-2oz a serving, provide some level of added nutrients. Is it enough? That all depends on the quality of the forage. IN many cases it simply has to do, since the horse can’t take more calories. But in many other cases, no, it’s not enough - not enough selenium, not enough Vit E, not enough magnesium, or copper or zinc, or whatever is specific to that situation. So you add those things on top.
The National Research Council has only been researching and reporting on this for decades. They put out an updated book a short while ago. There is a TON of research, over decades, on what horses need. Some of this has only been able to go as far as what a horse needs to live relatively well, but not necessarily in optimal health. Some has been extrapolated from levels found in milk, so not necessarily accurate, but at least a reasonable starting point. More research has been done in specific nutrients remedying various ailments, or at least managing symptoms.
There is a GREAT deal of knowledge of what horses do need
There’s no comparing the smaller, relatively sedentary (save for lots of walking) feral horses, to the often larger, and harder working while carrying (or pulling) weight, domestic horse. It is simply scientific fact that the harder a body works, the more nutrients it needs. How do you think muscles are built? It takes protein/amino acids. You can’t expect the same amino acid profile that sustains non-working, flabby muscles in the sedentary horse or person, to allow that individual to build or sustain muscle when work starts. It’s a know fact that if there is not enough nutrition coming into the body while it’s working, it will “eat” muscle tissue to protect the vital processes of the body.
It doesn’t matter what you believe. The facts are out there of lean/thin IR horses, and lean/thin Type II diabetics. Being overweight just increases the risk, and the longer you’re overweight, the more the risk increases - also proven.
They have an advantage that most domestic horses don’t have - access to a variety of forages, and presumably weeds and herbs, for a more rounded nutrient profile intake. Compare that to even 10 acres of pasture that is primarily a single grass, with access to woods (so leaves, bark) fenced off, and sprayed for weeds. How do you think the nutrient profiles compare?
Why not? Why don’t you feel that’s a problem? The very fact that you admit to not meeting those is the very reason why supplements are often necessary. The NRC is based on what it takes to be reasonably healthy, best they can tell. For the most part they don’t know what it takes to be optimally healthy, but the animals themselves prove all over the place they need extras of something because of their specific needs.[/QUOTE]
It’s obvious i don’t have a real good clue on nutrition for horses,so iv gotten away with feeding high NSC diets. My pasture is far from weed free and lots of woods are included in that 180 acres. I’am sure with only one kind of grass the nutrient level is changed,because whatever nutrients are in that grass it’s only nutrients horse will receive.
yes i’m sure my belief about lean/thin not being IR is wrong,as proven here,so i won’t argue that,i’ll admit when i am wrong.
The not meeting requirements is because my horses seem to be healthy,with so called not being fed according to NRC. And no horses didn’t seem to be any better for the 10lbs being fed. But i quit feeding it because they lose interest in 5lbs of feed in pan after so long of being fed that amount. So is there a problem?? maybe so.
So the fat sore footed horse should be check for IR so there again i’ll admit being uneducated in that fact…so i learned something new.
I’am not here to argue if i’am wrong i’ll admit it,and from looks of it i’v been wrong have wrong ideas, and so need to learn different. So that’s why i ask and question things.
The magnesium thing i just don’t quite get it,but sounds like it’s needed in diet for horses. Why my horses tend to stay thin lean don’t know,i just kinda of except it. Not that i don’t care i do, but i’v run out of ideas to get their weight up. I’v tried 9 different feeds in 3 months time…think horses are just plain sick of feed.
So for all intents and purposes, your horses’ nutrients and calories are coming strictly from what’s in the pasture, weeds and leaves and grass and all. That’s a much more well-rounded diet, nutrient-wise, than just your Mg-deficient hay 
