What to do about extremely annoying dog behavior?

[SarEQ]

I’m not usually a fan of barking collars at all, but I might consider one in this case.

Do you think she’s anxious? Like the whining/screaming comes from anxiety that things are going to happen? I wonder if a DAP collar/thunders hurt/Prozac would help her at all.

I can’t think what else to do to help her. You could try treadmill training her and up the exercise even more if you want to see if that helps. It sounds like she does have solid working time, but you can always try adding on more exercise or giving her a secondary job.

If you give her a command, does she stop? Like could you teach her to out clothes in te laundry basket or carry toys to the kid’s rooms? I’m trying to think of jobs that put something in her mouth, lol.

[grayarabpony]

I had a JRT who was a little bit like this – separation anxiety and excitable – and it’s a tough thing to deal with.

My dog was only 9 inches high though, if that much – and while she did have a lot of endurance it was possible to wear her out. If I couldn’t walk her the usual 2-3 miles I’d throw a tennis ball down the stairs so that she had to run up and down.

Basically, she required lots and lots of attention and was just very high maintenance. She wasn’t OK with being left in the house until she was about 13, and even then for only short periods, which gradually got longer and longer until she was like a normal dog. We got her at 8 weeks and she was always like this. It’s too bad that being with other animals doesn’t help your dog any.

You have my sympathy. Our JRT didn’t whine all of the time or anything of that sort, and she was a 150% people dog. She basically needed someone with her all of the time, but your dog’s issues sound more complicated, and super annoying.

[cowboymom]

When she was born she was in a litter of two; she was the first and her brother the second pup and they were Puppy A and Puppy B. That quickly turned into A for Anxiety and B for Boy… She is always thinking and fussing. Anticipating.

Something that we are totally missing here in this house is a kennel or a place that she can be put away. The new house will have one of those and I think that will help a lot.

She totally get a pay off from the whining sometimes-the kids aren’t remotely interested in trying to train her. When mornings are going smoothly I put her away so that she’s not part of the issue and the issues don’t get worse.

It’s like she knows I’ve been talking about her-this morning she slept in and didn’t fuss at us!

She does stop if I give her a command, she likes that. And then the commands stop and she starts to fuss again… She loves being a good dog and her demeanor when she’s whining is furtive, paranoid, worried… compulsive. It’s like she can’t help it but I know she’s also worried that she’s getting left behind and missing out on something fun.

I have a clicker and we’ve used it with the shed hunting.

[IdahoRider]

@cowboymom;7227592

She won’t stop it-just keeps screaming until she’s either left behind or gets her way. Sometimes we ignore it and sometimes we scream back at her, or lock her up, put her out in the dog pen, different result every time since we’re just trying to live our lives while she screams at us. I try to not give her what she wants when she’s like that but she does it for everything…?

This is probably not going to be something you want to hear, but the dog has very efficiently trained you. It doesn’t matter if you mix the result of her behavior up (sometimes ignoring it, sometimes responding to it with yelling, sometimes “giving her what she wants”). The fact is that the pay off for the dog happens often enough that the behavior is worth repeating.

I don’t think it is fair to the dog to just pass her off on someone else. A large, strong mined dog that resource guards is going to be a hard dog to place responsibly. Trying a bark collar sure seems like a better answer (short term, at least) than trying to find her another home. And putting long term effort into working with her is the best option of all. Is working with a good behaviorist also out of the question?

There are management and training steps you can take to minimize the behavior. But it will take time, patience and effort. She sounds like a bored dog that has been allowed to kind of set the rules. You can’t try one thing and then stop because you get busy, or try something else because the results of the first effort weren’t happening fast enough (OP, not saying this is your case, but it is something that dog people hear a lot…“I ran her until she couldn’t run anymore and that really helped, but then Monday rolled around and I had to go back to work and didn’t have the time and by Tuesday I was right back at Square One again, so NOTHING WORKS WITH THIS DOG”).

Have you tried crating her with a Kong stuffed with peanut butter? Freezing them works even better. If she is food motivated, what can you set her up with that will keep her occupied during that high arousal period of preparing to leave and the period shortly after you leave? I am willing to bet that if you can disrupt the beginning of the behavior you will find that she won’t carry on for five hours after you leave.
Sheilah

[Anne_FS]

[QUOTE=cowboymom;7228906]
No, I haven’t. To be honest, it doesn’t seem like the right answer for this. [/QUOTE]

Why not? Not criticizing, just wondering what other facts - since you’re right there and we’re just on the internet - make you think that?

Also, this looks more & more like an innate temperament issue - she’s squirrely. It happens.

From what you’ve said: she does get plenty of exercise - a dog running 9 miles doesn’t need more exercise, and she has a scenting job hunting shed antlers. Add that to the fact that she’s apparently been squirrely since in the nest - “A for anxiety” - it’s not surprising that normal training & exercise regimens don’t work. They help, but not to the extent they do with a temperamentally sound dog.

Consider the bark collar. Not the e collar since the timing has to be perfect to the bark. Since she’s experienced an e collar she’ll probably adjust rapidly to the bark collar. As I said in previous posts, the bark collar ended up being a tremendous help to my own squirrely rescue dog and I resisted it for literally years. I’ve never used it even once on my dogs of sound temperament.

Good luck with whatever you try.

[Finding_Serenity]

I know how it is with not having everyone on board to train the dog… thankfully ours has realized that while she can do stuff with one person, she can’t with me or my mom (and its just silly things like wrestling or pulling socks off his feet). It can be very very frustrating, but she has the “house rules” down for the most part now. (teaching her “wait” was the hardest one)

I second the crate with the frozen peanut butter kong.

One thing I noticed when you wrote your next post, she seems to LOVE structure. I bet with the moving and everyone (and things) not where they should be she’s gotten worried/anxious and now has learned that when she screams, she gets something.

If you have to in the mornings make it a habit that she “goes to her room/spot” at a certain time (Yes our dog knows the command and goes to her crate with it) and then get everything out of the way and then when it is quiet again let her out. Even if you don’t have a crate, a room with a door that shuts can be used as well.

Also, don’t let her out if she screams at you. I had to do this with our puppy. She has to sit, and wait, for us to open the door of her crate, quietly. If she screams, walk out of sight. You can do this for a “room” as well. Wait until its quiet, come back in. It may take a few times but she sounds very intelligent and she should get the idea that quiet= out of crate/room mom time.

If you can follow the same rules for feeding/training/treats/clicker (screaming=no attention/reward), she’ll probably catch on pretty quickly. Be wary though if you try to teach her “quiet” she may learn that screaming and then going quiet will lead to treats as well (ask how I know that one).

eta: Our dog trainer recommended the “stop that spray” over the bark collar. We used the bark collar on our pup but she just learned how long it took for it to “reset” and would get noisy again. The spray has calming agents in it so that might help if she’s anxious as well. It’d be the same idea as the collar, but you’d have to be spot on for the “punishment” and repeat with any sort of avoidance (hiding and screaming) followed by praise for being quiet/showing her that everything is still okay after punishment and that the quiet is what you want.

Note: I am not condoning chasing her with it. That will lead to nowhere. But if you can catch a moment between where she is quiet, it may work to spray, pause, praise. I can ask my trainer about the issue if you like.

[cowboymom]

I don’t deny for a moment that the dog is getting a pay off from the behavior; I notice the inconsistency and that’s why I mentioned it. I would not say she has me trained b/c I’m as stubborn as she is but DH and kids are totally trained by her. If she whines all day (at two teens and a DH as well as me) at some point she’s going to get what she wants at the point she’s whining. Broken clock is right twice a day.

I’m asking for the methods to train her now-I gave the background in the interest of context on the situation but now that we know what a blooming idiot I am can we talk about ways to work with the idiot and the dog to make things better?

I appreciate the ideas-one thing that occurred to me with the bark collar is that I have four other dogs and while none of them accomplish the particular shriek that she’s perfected she might get zapped by friendly fire. And the other reason I’ve held off of that is that she doesn’t seem to be able to help it much-when she’s in the car and thinks we’re going somewhere to walk she screams and whines in our ears and we’ve tried to punish, suppress, treat, distract, every trick I could think of to stop the noise at the moment it’s happening but she doesn’t stop. But I’m kicking that around, it would take us out of the game she’s playing and maybe that would help the situation, that it’s her vs the collar and not her vs us. Maybe I can put some prozac in a spray collar… LOL Good thoughts, I hadn’t really thought about that before.

I have successfully trained horses, other dogs and two human beings, I don’t just throw things out there at random, not watch for results and then quit and blame the creature. I have four other very well behaved dogs and I think I’ve done a lot of good things with this one.

The family that was interested in her had BMC’s already and the husband had grown up with them. He was part of a group that used them to hunt and track mtn lions in the wilderness of Montana. Had she not been such a dedicated deer chaser and resource guarder at that point he probably would have kept her. I know it’s asking a lot, but you’re going to have to give me a little credit that I’m not going to pass her off to the first dork that shows up. I’m here asking for ideas b/c I’m trying to work with her, not rehome her.

I have put her in a room with her breakfast or a treat when it’s that exciting point of leaving and she completely ignores them. It does work when she wants the bed or wonders what’s outside or hears the voices in her head that tell her to whine.

Something that is really clear to me in thinking/writing all of this is how bad it’s been that she doesn’t have her own place in this very small very old house. We ended up renting this house and weren’t able to make the changes that were needed, DH’s boss died = DH was unemployed, I was working full-time, chaos ensued but she really needed/needs her own place in the house. New house has it all ready for her but I’ll do what I can here until we leave.

It is her personality-she’s always going to be Anxiety Dog but if I can help her just tone it down it will be better for everyone.

[jetsmom]

Maybe try some Melatonin in the morning before you get ready for the day. Takes about 1/2 hr to kick in.

[wendy]

for some dogs and situations, I’m a big fan of no-bark collars; but only if you attempt to address the possible underlying causes of the excess noise first. Dogs who are noisy out of anxiety, lack of exercise, boredom, or isolation are not candidates for such tools because you first address the underlying problem, and that should cure the noise. Strapping a no-bark collar on a dog being noisy out of anxiety issues is downright cruel and will probably either result in a complete melt-down or will cause the dog to express its anxiety in other undesirable ways, ways that are even more annoying that making noise.
Also, I’m pretty sure most no-bark collars will not trigger in response to whining; not so sure about shrieking, they might trigger there.

[Anne_FS]

OP seems like she’s certainly looking at and dealing with underlying causes.

[cowboymom]

Thank you, yes I am trying!

[calamitycarah]

Exhausted to say, I know exactly how you feel.

So I just found this post because we are having the exact same problem with our 2 year old Black Mouth Cur. We only recently found out what breed she was and I could not give a better description for the behaviour than you did.

Did you ever find anything that worked? From this thread we’ve been now looking for puzzle treats and anything like that to try and give her things that can keep her attention for longer than 5 minutes before she destroys it.

I curious to see if you had any tips to help, since it looks like this is about 3 years old. I know its a long shot, but anything would help!

Thank you for even just making this post. My family finally feels like we aren’t alone in the world!

[Scratch_N_Dent]

With respect to bark collars, I totally get your concern about another dog setting it off. I wonder if adjusting the settings would help? Or putting it on at times the other dogs are likely to be relatively quiet and she isn’t. In addition, there are some good non-shocking barking collars out there. We had one that let off a high pitched whistle when the dog barked and there are other that spray scent of various types.

good luck!

ETA: Oops, just saw how old this was.

[Countrywood]

Have you tried crating her when she is not outside? Worth a try…maybe her own little cave where she is away from the other dogs where she feels safe and as if it is her spot. The resource guarding sounds like she feels she has to compete with the others…does she have one special friend in the pack? Perhaps try keeping just those 2 together in their own room or outside space with a kennel. Try different things…I know it is not the trend these days to keep a dog outside but would she be better off living in an outdoor run with a kennel and a doggie pal perhaps?

I guess the point is you have to try different living/sleeping arrangements to see what works since the current one is not working on this problem (sounds like you give her a super great home )

[corgif]

I had a corgi who just LOVED the sound of his own voice. Now, I want him to bark if he hears a suspicious noise, but I also want him to be quiet once it’s determined that said noise is not suspicious. I also want him to not bark at all in certain places like hotels.

What worked like a charm was the Sunbeam Sonic Egg. It makes a barely audible (to humans) beep sound, but to dogs it’s a sound they do not like. It’s pocket-sized with a wrist strap. You press the button to make it beep. Fits easily in a pocket.

I’ll usually let my dog have 3 good barks, and then I say “Enough”. If he keeps barking, I press the button. He’ll stop and look at me like “What was that awful noise you just made?” If he barks again, I push the button. He quickly learned that barking after the “Enough” command will cause that awful noise.

After a few weeks, he was pretty much trained. Every now and then he’ll need a reminder, but it’s pretty rare. Usually I can just say “Do you need the egg?”

[snowrider]

I have a husky cross who was like this except with whining. She didn’t even stop to breathe, it was super annoying. A few things have stopped it:

1. She is not allowed whine in the house. Period. No whining. This is enforced the word “shut up” and if that’ doesn’t work I become much more annoying to her than she is to me. I do something she doesn’t like for example hold her foot in my hand and refuse to let go or hold the tip of her ear. I used to clip her nails every time she whined. The goal is to get her to pull away and go away from me voluntarily. She has replaced whining at me with pouting and staring resentfully. She’s staring at me now, she has been staring at me for about 35 minutes and I don’t think she’s blinked once. But she is quiet, which is all I care about.

2. Jobs. She has jobs. One is to pull things, which makes her happy: bike, skis, runner (attach to belt, achieve personal bests unheard of before!). Another job is to find things. I don’t feed her dinner in a bowl I hide the kibble all over the house one piece at a time. It takes her about 30 minutes to find it usually. It has also taught her the very important skill of Doing Stuff on Your Own which neither hounds nor huskys are very good at. She’s also a trained scenting dog but it gets her quite wound up and is not the panacea people say it is.

3. Build independence. She wants my attention because she is not into doing things alone. Ever. If she goes outside, she wants me to come too or the other dogs. Literally the only time I can’t see the dog is if she’s doing something very bad. I find this clingy and irritating so we’ve worked on getting her to be more independent. For example, if I hide kibble all over the yard and go inside and do something else she gets a reward for self-amusing. Also she has “safe” resting spots that also allow her to do something she’s interested in like look out a window that are not in the common room. She will periodically try to get me to come hang out with her but has largely given up. The other dogs just growl at her when she annoys them now too, which helps.

4. Playing. I play silly games with her about twice a day for 5-10 minutes when she asks nicely. ie, not whining. If she brings a toy and does a play bow I reward her by playing with her. This is a good positive interaction.

[fordtraktor]

I adopted a little dog this winter and he went through a stage that was very similar. In his case it is anxiety/general stress response. When he settled in it has largely gone away but he still does it in the car when I step out for a sec and leave him with the kids, and when I am driving (he wants to be in my lap). I don’t have any advice because I treated mine with time and ignore and he is calming as he gets comfortable and secure, but yours sounds much more ingrained. But I would be thinking about treating anxiety. It makes sense – dog cares about food, vocalizes before meals because worried about food appearing. Anxious dog vocalizes in car, about space, etc. Lots of anxiety ties, not necessarily separation but just anxiety in general.