One thing, have you considered that he might be food allergic to alfalfa? The only reason I ask is because I’ve known a few horses, including one in our barn right now, that has various similar symptoms when on even just a little bit of alfalfa. The horse in my barn now bloats up like a balloon and can’t go forward, has mild colic episodes. They took him off alfalfa and he was fine. My sister’s horse went through some mild colics and then started breaking out in hives and he allergy tested allergic to alfalfa and some other things. Mine does great on alfalfa, but not all do. You might add to your elimination experiments taking him off the alfalfa.
Vet thinks it’s unlikely to be an allergy given how long he has eaten it, but it’s on the list. Just bad timing because I just bought over $600 worth of alfalfa to get thru to next summer.
Bute and bodywork made no difference. If anything he had more frequent and quick to pass poops and was worse under saddle. I got him to trot a few laps after much being pissy, kicking out, etc. And he was doing the stop and out his nose on the ground thing. When he parked out as if to do a second pee again but didn’t actually have to pee but just wanted to stand there like that for a long time, I got off, gave him some belly rubs (which made him much happier) and called it a day.
He was ok to walk so I will walk tomorrow and only trot if he is willing to go without a fight. Otherwise, just not worth it…Bute trial will clearly not be working.
I also discovered he is eating his lunch hay after all…they just started giving him 5 flakes instead of 3 so that is why he has had a couple flakes leftover lately.
I taste tested the Platinum Healthy Weight oil they sent me. I have never gotten this horse to eat any oil in the past. He thinks this stuff is the best thing he has ever had. So maybe I will order some of that for when I cut back on his beet pulp…I think I could go down by half and have him still eat the other stuff. I didn’t give him any with his snack tonight.
I am certain he is in pain somewhere. I don’t think he is just being a goober. This is getting to be as bad as his neck hurts behavior only add in the weird parking out and putting his nose on the ground.
If he were my horse, I would put him out for the winter. It sounds like you have tried more than enough and he’s not sound for the job currently. Sometimes mother nature and the tincture of time will heal things that we can’t, but I can’t imagine how frustrating chasing this rabbit hole is for you and the horse. Find a nice pasture board situation where he can have quality forage and access to shelter all winter in a big herd and revisit in the spring.
Edit: I went through a similar thing with one of my horses- he was impossible to really diagnose and somewhere around 20 grand into looking for an answer, I just put him out in a field and let him get gangly and skinny and hairy. I brought him back out in the spring and while it wasn’t ultimately successful with him, I still think it was the right call.
I was just talking to a friend at another barn. She just had to give her horse bio-sponge and probiotics this week. She said yet another barn has had 10 colics and 2 surgeries recently. Wonder if the drought we had this summer did something to hay quality. Although most buy from farms that irrigate? Ugh. I dunno.
Day 2 of Bute and I started out by making him happy on a walking hack out on the property. He just about dragged me to the trail. (Kind of weird for him). He was really enjoying himself. Then we went into the arena to see what we were going to get. He was sour at first, but I pushed through, and then he was ready to go. He was willing to canter both leads and canter long enough I could finally get the 6 yr old brattiness out. We took a break where he kept wanting to stop and park out (but not pee) again. Very weird. But then he went back to work and got better and better. I rewarded him with another walk around the trail.
I’d given the Bute closer to riding time, like 6 hrs versus 18. It was the best ride we’ve had in 3 1/2 weeks. He had a couple extra poops and some gas but not horrible.
Today is going to be day 3 of the Bute trial, and I’ll have to ride him at more like the 10 hour mark.
The parking out concerns me. Any ideas? He has never done that in the past.
A friends horse did that for years. Vets said “oh he’s just a Morgan doing his thing!” Turns out he had sand in his gut. It caused a lot if irritation and he was on prednisone for a long time after, but did recover.
I’d be kind of concerned about right dorsal colitis with NSAID use.
[QUOTE=Simkie;8904832]
I’d be kind of concerned about right dorsal colitis with NSAID use.[/QUOTE]
Me too but vet instructed the Bute trial. He wanted to see if there was something inflammatory we should go looking for?
Vet thinks sand is unlikely…said he’s only seen it once in this area. He did listen to his gut very thoroughly. Thought you can hear sand via stethoscope?
If it is sand, this horse will not eat Sand Clear. Not at all. He’d have to get tubed.
I’ll also add that his hay appetite has increased some being on Bute and he is not quite as obsessed with alfalfa, as in, he might choose to eat some of his grass hay before the alfalfa is all gone. I have found when his stomach is iffy, he really is into alfalfa more, whether the hay or seeking out wild plants on the farm.
I’m not really sure how much info the Bute is giving us other than confirming what I already said is not just a behavioral problem. Whether it’s an orthopedic pain or gut pain, Bute would help that, right?
Last day of Bute trial yesterday. I’m glad that’s over and we can have a day off. Rode at more of the 12 HR mark post dose, and it wasn’t as good as Sunday but not awful. Took him passing manure 3x to feel ok (the usual warmup poop then 2 smaller ones), at which time he was pissed because I’d gotten after him to move trying to keep this ride short and sweet.
It sucks that I have to get after him and then spend the rest of the ride apologizing. He had a harder time with some of the lateral work, especially where he had to drive with RH. But he was fine picking up both canter leads and chose to display his attitude with some forward moving (and vertical) temper tantrums, which aren’t the most fun thing, but I can ride through them and at least we are going forward! He seemed to not want me to sit on him at left lead canter, which is when he had the most hissy fits. Of course, if a buck is coming, I’m not going to be in 2 point!
I got some decent trot out of him but if I gave him a long walk break he wanted to be done. So clearly not feeling 100%. He also peed twice.
Have a call into my vet to talk about what to do next 
He is off the RB and getting a small amount of TC Sr and alfalfa pellets. I decided to add the TC Sr rather than go totally soy free because I think I will reduce the beet pulp after all, and the senior would be better for mixing his powders. I realize it does have beet pulp in it. He used to thrive on TC Sr so it’s a known factor at least. Not close to a full ration yet. I have already cut out the evening beet pulp. Just have to tell the guys to cut back on the other feeds.
[insert lots of expletives here]…horse now lame u/s at trot. I didn’t do anything with him yesterday but some grooming and massaging. He did run around his paddock some because it was windy and he was a bit up. I wasn’t concerned about that and thought maybe it would help his belly to do some self-exercise. His sacrum area was very sore last night. He practically put all his weight on me to dig into a couple acupuncture points. He has also been rubbing his tail, which could be from the soreness (he does this when he needs the chiro sometimes) or could be from still having an irritated bum.
Today, we go out for a walking hack out. He is happy to do this. I ask him to trot a little stretch up the “hill” (not really much incline) to see what he’ll do. First, he takes off at a gallop, because, nature!, then we trot and it feels off. Hmm. We finish our walk and go into an arena. I ask for a few more trot steps. Definitely off. Could be RF or RH (head down on LF). I don’t push it to figure it out. Hope we maybe just picked up a rock on the walk.
Check feet. No rock. Feel all legs and palpate. No heat or tenderness in lower limbs anywhere. Take him to matted barn aisle and jog. Seems ok, maybe a little more toe drag behind but equal bilateral (not unusual for him at this pace). No head bob. Fronts look to be landing properly. Hmm…
I dunno. He doesn’t have kissing spines. Saddle supposedly fits. I did have a half pad on today which he has objected to in the past but has seemed to like the past week or so. He had pretty normal poop and pee behavior, but again, we were basically just walking which he still enjoys. Maybe still a hind gut problem? He does have some more trouble doing the between the legs carrot stretches the past couple of days, I thought because of tucking the belly. But this was improved last night. Usually, he’s very good at this one.
Vet didn’t call me back yesterday, so I text him to tell him what’s up. Haven’t heard what he wants to do about it. Called CSU again and got through to someone in the sports med group for once and gave them my sob story. Horse’s vet there doesn’t have availability till 12/1 for a farm call. But maybe she will squeeze us in? I’d like both her and regular vet to see him at once if possible. If all else fails, I can haul him back to the clinic, but I think it might be better for him to be seen at home in case they want to watch me ride (nowhere to do that at the clinic really).
Ugh, I’m hoping I didn’t break him during the Bute trial. But maybe now we can find something? In the meantime, I am feeling sick to my stomach.
Deep breath 
Could be nothing! Give him a couple days.
How far out from his last set of neck injections is he?
This Friday will be 7 weeks. We should be well into the turning-himself around stage behaviorally as far as neck related things. His lateral movement in the neck for stretches etc. is excellent.
I have a groundwork lesson scheduled for tomorrow morning. I’ve already postponed once due to him still feeling sore after injections for the first day we scheduled. He was a piss to lead around yesterday, so I really don’t want to cancel. The trainer wants to lunge him as part of her evaluation. I guess I can just tell her that if he’s lame, just do whatever she can at the walk only? It is just an evaluation to see if she thinks she can come up with a month or two of a groundwork lesson program that would get us back on track manners-wise. (She may say he’s just a booger and good luck or get rid of him). But I don’t know exactly what she is going to want to ask of him.
This seems reasonable, right? Since he didn’t seem off in hand, I think this will be ok? Not like my vet is jumping up and down to come see him tomorrow morning.
Not sure if this is helpful or too much info lol - I suffer from IBS, certain foods make me bloated and cramping and others go straight through. Also if I am stressed or in pain - it’s much worse. Maybe the bute dealt with the pain aspect which relieved the IBD symptoms somewhat? Just a thought. I really feel for you, best of luck.
Have you fed Equishure or anything similar to help with hind gut issues?
Yes, he’s been on Equishure. I think it helps some but not 100%, and I upped the dose some recently due to these issues and him growing (weighs more), and so far no change.
Things I have not yet tried for the hind gut include Succeed or RelyneGI. Or Bio-Sponge. Both Succeed and RelyneGI are expensive. I guess if I do the Succeed challenge, at least I could get my money back?
I also had really bad, debilitating pain and/or spasms diagnosed as “IBS” for years. I also had some nerve issues relating to my SI area. Nothing wrong with my spine on MRI, but I’ve always had some asymmetries. Finally found a chiropractor that, in conjunction with PT, got me in a lot better shape with my lower lumbar and SI area since moving to CO. Helped a lot with general back pain (muscle) and the nervy things. And I have had an extreme reduction in my own belly symptoms. A lot of the same bladder meridian acupuncture points that are “hot” on the horse are ones that flare up with me too. So, I wonder if we do need to just inject the SI? Or try something like gabapentin to calm down the nerves? Because lord knows the horse gets more chiropractic and acupuncture and massage care than I get for myself lately.
After all that, he blocked out to right front foot and vet suspects the beginnings o pedal osteitis. Took us all by surprise, but he was very willing to go forward with a numb foot! It took me getting on him for the lameness to even show up. Unfortunately, don’t have the right rads from his PPE to compare. I was hoping it was just stone bruise, as there are plenty of rocks in his paddock. Vet wants to do some more tests to be sure before we start something like Tildren. Maybe just have to put shoes/pads on.
Good lord, this horse!
So we are onto a new stack of hay. Despite BO saying it all is the same cuttings from the same fields, they don’t all look the same, and they switched over cold turkey last night/this AM. And a lot of the horses have the runs or close to it tonight. Except my horse. He isn’t significantly better than he was, but the gut noises are not quite so loud, and his manure not so stinky. So I’m fairly pleased with the diet changes I’ve done so far. The new hay is not making anything worse for him that I can tell. Hmm. Go figure.
I would be very suspect of right dorsal colitis. It would be #1 on my list, followed by enterolith.
Onto yet another batch of hay. This one appears to have more brome in it. Manure is less green and less watery. Sometimes, though, still stinky. And the past few days, there’s been more gas and his gut related issues under saddle. This is more recent than the change in hay, which had seemed to be going fine.
To recap… Horse is off of TC30 now. He gets about 2.25 lbs of TC Senior a day (split into 3 feedings) with up to 3 qt soaked beet pulp daily (so, cut total beet pulp consumption down by half). The evening meal gets a handful or so of alfalfa pellets. He gets free choice grass hay and 3 flakes alfalfa/day. Supplements now are still Vitamin E (8,000IU), Equishure (which I was able to reduce to 2 scoops/day instead of 4!), Osteon (which is silicon, for his PO), Platinum Performance equine wellness (for v/m), Platinum Balance (pre/probiotic), and 1/2 cup Flax oil for calories and omega 3s. This was going well for a few weeks.
I cut the HT supplement in half and experimented with feeding it 2x a day or 1x a day. I then eliminated the HT supplement for a while and then tried adding it back. He’s getting more gassy and having some of the reluctance to move under saddle stuff…needing to poop. Having a couple of poops within a minute of each other, kind of stress looking. After several rides with the other horse with whom he was poop obsessed and him not caring, now he is back to needing to eat that horse’s poop again.
Acupuncture vet treated his stomach points (which many of them coincide with his usual lumbo/sacral stuff), and I emailed HorseTech asking them if I could try the supplement without the MSM (so, flax, Nutramino, magnesium, biotin, copper, zinc). They are going to send me some to try.
