Hugarian Hippo I have two “pasture” horses. . One is 25 , big beautiful TWH but he had EPM, he is fat,happy , he looks very sound in the field. However last time I rode him both rear legs buckled on him and he almost went down while walking on a flat trail. My friend who saw this convinced me it was to risky to ride him anymore. (Yes he was treated for EPM ) He lives a great life of retirement and does not appear to be in pain at least no more pain than I am with all my old broken down joints.
The other is a 26 yr. old mare turning grey and droppy mouth. I rode her till 6 months ago when her gait was just to strange, she’s had bad stifles all her life and the last cortisone shot didn’t help. so yes we can still go for a slow walk but she hates that. shes a very forward horse and loves to move out. So I retired her and shes my love.
I just don’t think about what its costing me ,its to scary. The first horse is a companion to a young colt and the mare is in my yard with the two horses I ride. Shes still the boss, still a air fern so no I’d never put her down till its really necessary.
Both of these horses I’ve owned since they were 2 rs. old. I hate not being able to ride them .
I ditto the idea that euthanasia is a good idea for our dear old friends.
Two years ago, I took my older dog to the vet for what I believed was an injured leg. He was gone two hours later after it was discovered his entire spine was covered in tumors. Letting him go immediately was the most difficult thing I’d done with regards to my pets.
A year later, after a few months of vet care, I let my best horse go. He was only 21 and just a few months before was still showing. A tumor on his liver was slowly killing him, and while he still had his dignity in tact, I sent him on his way, in peace and knowing he was so loved.
I currently have a pony who is 33 years old. He is still happy and comfortable, and at the first sign of a struggle, I will call the vet.
The decision is never easy, but often, it’s the only decision that is fair to the horse that has given you his all.
I am so sorry for your loss.
First, HI Louise! Long time no read!
I think the hardest issue to face for horse lovers, is the financial one. I read the AAEP link that Lady Ebolshi (?) posted, and it mentioned finances as one consideration in deciding whether or not to euthanize.
And it is a consideration. It is no news to anyone here that horses are expensive. G&T’s examples are from the real world. I like to think that no one on COTH would become a horse owner if they could not afford one. But ONE is often the operative word.
If that horse becomes unrideable when it is 15, and it could live until it is 30, at $350/month (including trims, shots and carrots 
) that is over $4000/year x 15 = $60,000.
AND during those 15 years, the person does not have a horse to ride.
This is the real world and, finances are a part of life. Sometimes life gets in the way of the good stuff. Is it better to give an unrideable horse away or to euthanize it in those circumstances? There is no one answer. G&T wrote about one girl who gave the horse away, and another family which chose euthanasia. Either choice was made because it was right for each person.
Tough topic. Hard to talk about. But, I bet that, if we own horses for several decades, we will all come up against this issue or know someone who has.
Sorry for your loss. I have 2 old timers. Emotionally, it’s hard. But mine are sound, happy, sparky…but old.
I’ve paid to have a bone fixed, an eye removed, a splenic abscess surgically drained (but on a young one). I wouldn’t put my old ones through an uncomfortable procedure. You do the best you can and keep their best interests first, before your heart- even when it’s breaking.
I’m sorry for your loss, LH, and agree with you 100%.
We do our best and sometimes our best isn’t quite what we think is enough, but in the end we know our horses and are responsible for that final decision.
What to do with an old horse? You cherish him until it’s time. Our dear horses have no concept of “You’ll feel better tomorrow.”, they just know the pain in the moment. In the grand scheme of things, every pet (and human) should be so lucky to have a gentle passing when it’s time.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8058589]
Again in human terms: Old age. You can be pretty damn creaky but still able to enjoy eating, reading, going to plays, watching Downton Abbey and lying in the sun. Maybe to keep doing that you need a little medical help, but it’s a mighty long way from “creaky” to “begging for a bullet.” And that’s where all the nice stuff we now have to make horses’ lives better comes in. I have NO PROBLEM with a horse needing a Previcox, Pergolide, some special feed, maybe a little Naquasone for a leg that fills, etc. to keep him happily pasture sound. As long as he eats with enthusiasm, poops properly, enjoys his companions and can get up and down in my book he’s not begging for euthanasia UNTIL the maximum safe doses of the best meds can NO LONGER keep him comfortable and his quality of life goes downhill. We recently put down a 35 year old for whom that literally NEVER happened; he had to go only when his circulation started shutting down from pure old age. Should his owner have euthanized him at 20? That would have been a tragedy, because for the last 15 years he’s been the happiest horse in the world, and very valuable as a babysitter![/QUOTE]
I agree with this completely. My first pony lived to be 37 and he had a good life. He was creaky towards the end but I’m absolutely certain he wanted to be around. He couldn’t be ridden anymore but he was my resident companion and had a VERY important job. When I lost him I actually had to buy a new companion pony because all the horses were so lost wihout him. Right up to the end, this pony was cheerful and talkative and it would have been a huge shame for him to have been put to sleep just because he was no longer useful as a riding horse. That being said, had he suffered a major illness or injury, I would have put him down immediately. It was of the utmost importance to me that my pony never suffered needlessly and, when he finally contracted pneumonia from aspirated feed, I put him to sleep in less than 36 hours.
Old age isn’t always pretty and the body does break down but that doesn’t mean that every horse is miserable and ready to die or even SHOULD die. There are a lot of factors that need to be considered and some horses really do very well living in retirement even if they are a little ‘creaky’.
There’s no single right answer, which of course makes it harder. I have second guessed my decisions on every horse or dog that I’ve had euthanized, except the 24 year old with the shattered leg. Even in cases where the logical me knows the time was right, I still wonder “what if…”
I think it’s just the burden we have to bear as animal owners.
[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;8058546]
Can someone help me understand how a horse can be “not sound” but at the same time say they are “not in pain”? [/QUOTE]
I haven’t finished reading the thread yet, and I’m not sure this will help you understand it, but I have a mini horse who sustained soft-tissue injury to his shoulder several years ago. The shoulder healed, but he still obviously limps on that leg. My vet called it functional lameness, as opposed to painful lameness. It very obviously is not painful to him. He races around the pasture (the limp is most obvious at walk and trot, less obvious in canter), plays with his buddy, etc.
When I work him (and, yes, the vet told me the work was good for him), he gets improves marginally, but at least a slight limp is always there.
I can’t say I completely understand how this works, but there it is. I would definitely call this pony not sound and not in pain.
I’ll take a crack at “pasture sound”. My 21 year old show Hunter, still in work tho reduced, had been bothered by something in front for about a year, nothing found. Last set of hock injections (OCD and age related issues) did nothing. Had a weird tying up episode, never happened before or since. Generally just not the same horse.
Front leg finally got bad enough for a probable DDFT diagnosis, did not spring for $$$ diagnostics knowing it was a year plus rehab at best plus pharmaceutical help. Not 3 legged but not fully weight bearing at anything faster then a walk, So retired to a basic but very caring facility geared towards the retired working horse, stall, turn out, basic grooming, blanketing, under 500 a month.
That was over 4 years ago. Horse now 26. Leg gradually recovered but it took about 18 months and another year to start being really active in pasture. Needs Previcox to get up and move more easily and suffers the consequences of pasture sillies in being stiff and sore for several days. I believe this horse does not WANT to go back to work and there is also an underlying condition that will deteriorate. Since I can afford it, why not let it enjoy some golden years even if there is no reason to ride it and there would be many limits and very few places to ride if anybody did?
But if somebody had the exact same situation I did 4 years ago? And could not afford to keep it and get another to keep riding? They might have made a different choice and don’t see a thing wrong with that either.
IIRC the insurance underwriters consider “pasture sound” as a reason to deny some claims and define it as eating, eliminating and mobile enough to walk around.
I think the world would be a better place if more people euthanized when it became clear that the horse could no longer handle its workload instead of passing them down the line. Sure, we might lose the opportunity to have some of our steady-eddy 2 foot schoolies but the truth is, most of those horses don’t end up living out a luxurious retirement in grassy fields.
Just for perspective, more than you think DO live out their lives in grassy fields.
21 of them here, SMF11 above has a bunch more, my neighbors have a dozen between them, and just about every one of the big retirement farms down South have extensive waiting lists. IME most of the ones who get dumped are owned by commercial establishments rather than well-off private owners.
I see more and more people every year VERY committed to giving retired horses a good life. My inquiry leads from the various ad platforms are LOADED, every day, with people seeking low-key pasture board for older horses.
The ones who truly AMAZE are the very special folks who’ll pull something from the auction, KNOWING they can’t ride it, and pay retirement board for the next ten years.
There is everything on the spectrum out there you can imagine–and some you can’t! :yes:
Lady E,
I don’t disagree that there are tons of horses living out the dream retirement. My own childhood horse has been semi and then fully retired at the same farm for the last ten years.
It thrills me to hear that you are tracking increased interest.
That said, if retirement board is not on the table for whatever reason, I would still rather see an owner euth than send the horse down the line to the next person.
LH, thank you for sharing your experience and feelings. Choosing when to end an animal’s life for humane (and practical) reasons is a heavy responsibility, just one of the many that goes along with animal ownership.
For myself, I don’t think that owners should expect that there is going to be some “perfect time.” Few of us know whether tomorrow or next week or next month an animal is going to feel better or worse, and reading the mind of a prey animal that is engineered to be stoic and not show pain or distress is a difficult and inexact task. Horses are not humans that can be comforted by visitors or entertaining books or television. OTOH, a horse can be comforted tremendously by the companionship of old friends, a pile of choice hay, a soft place to nap in the sun, and a bit of nice new grass to graze on.
It’s a complicated decision. I’ve kept ancient, decrepit horses to the bitter end when they had companions, were content in a pastured retirement state for many years, and I am able to provide that. I’ve also euthanized young horses with health problems that I felt were difficult and in one case dangerous, and to whom I did not feel that I owed some twenty+ year retirement. I’ve tried to bring both young and old horses through severe injury/illness and given up and euthanized halfway through when it seemed to be too much for them to endure. I’ve brought some horses through devastating illness and injury too, some of whom have gone on to have very successful careers and happy lives. I didn’t know at the outset which ones were going to make it and which ones weren’t, and the veterinarians who helped me didn’t know either. I’ve also euthanized middle aged horses not long after their “retirement” that had chronic problems that just didn’t seem to be thriving in a retirement situation–nothing serious, just constantly cranky with their companions, miserable in turnout, or a little bit too sore out in the field.
It’s never easy. With the ancient ones, I fault myself–did I wait too long? With the young ones–it breaks my heart to put down a young animal, no matter how much I know there isn’t any other reasonable decision. The sick ones–why did I make them suffer before I put them down? The horses that can’t seem to thrive in retirement–I feel guilty for not being able to give them at least a few years of proper, well deserved retirement.
I’ve come to understand that those feelings are just part of life. Hard decisions are going to come up. Decisions where there is no perfect choice. Decisions you may always second guess, or always remember with sadness and regret. Thankfully, when you have a life with horses, there are many truly perfect moments to make up for it. Enjoying a perfect ride on a gorgeous spring day, a few minutes in the evening sun giving scratches to your favorite horse, welcoming a new foal into the world, having a jumping round or dressage test where you are in complete harmony with your horse, galloping across the countryside on a crisp fall day listening to the hounds cry, or just walking quietly through the forest on a peaceful trail ride.
[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;8058546]
Can someone help me understand how a horse can be “not sound” but at the same time say they are “not in pain”? What is “pasture-sound”, anyway? Are there really many disabilities that are painful/cause unsoundness only when the horse is ridden, but if they’re in the field they’re pain-free?
The arthritic horse that is stiff for the first 10 minutes out of the stall, but limbers up and gets smooth once he’s moving, trots and canters at will? I’m cool with that-- he is, to me, is the ideal “candidate” for pasture retirement.
But when normal movement becomes is short-strided, mincing, careful, avoids hard surfaces, etc. – it’s because normal movement is painful.
Put a tiny piece of gravel in your shoe and walk around like that for a couple days, and tell me that mild, low-grade pain doesn’t affect one’s quality of life.[/QUOTE]
I may humanize this a bit, but bear with me.
My knees have had six surgeries in total. I have RA in my hands which makes it nearly impossible in the morning for me to hold a tooth brush and squeeze toothpaste. I have trouble opening doors. I limp when I walk, often.
When I wake up, I am in pain more times than not. After a few hours of walking around, dealing with the horses, and then going to the gym (which I force myself to do five days a week) I feel better. I feel looser. I am in less pain.
I feel horses are the same way. They have injuries where yes, they are stiff with arthritis or their knee is sore or they have SI pain or whatever. They can live outside and walk around to loosen up. They still play and maybe sometimes you catch them cantering. They still have a desire to go on. They still enjoy life.
Have you been in debilitating pain before? I ask the question because we have good days and bad days. I don’t feel as though the pebble in the shoe is a correct analogy for human or horse. You can put your horse and yourself on a pain care regimen. You can alleviate the pain. You change your life to manage the pain. I drive a truck because I have trouble lowering myself into cars. I actually have the most trouble getting out of them after a long drive. I have to open doors differently.
My horse knows that he cannot canter and buck like a moron anymore. He went from being a psycho in turnout to the most docile animal. You adapt to the pain, you learn to live with it. Eventually you figure out a stride to make the pebble not hit your foot anymore. The horses do it too.
They adapt. We all adapt. The horses learn their limitations and can go on to live normal lives. They can learn to work around the pain, just like us.
When they lose the will to enjoy life I think that is when the tough decisions need to be made. When they lay down more than they are up. When they ignore food and hay. When they truly loose the quality of life. That’s when your time for help is up I feel. They start to suffer with each passing day.
You can be in some mild pain and enjoy life. My knees have no cartilage in them. Bone grinds against bone. They swell, often. They ache everyday, but they have not ended my life. I have to keep active and I feel better.
I hate that I cannot run anymore. I try to jog, I really do, but its the slowest god awful jog of all time. My retired horse trots in the same way really. He still trots around and I want to sob when I see my once amazing athlete who used to buck so high you thought he was going to flip over, trot around the pasture with a hitchy back end. He plays in the pond, he hops around a bit sometimes, he once in a while canters. He has adapted to meet his limitations. He is comfortable but not sound.
He will let me know when his time is done. For now he chases my fresh OTTBs around the pasture like a crabby old man. A life does not end because of pain. If that was the case I would be dead. Pain is part of life. You move on and work around it. The horse can still be useful.
I have euthanized a few because they were not even pasture sound. One was extremely neuralgic and was sound under saddle until he flipped over and thrashed out of nowhere. Sure he could live in a pasture and he was sound, but he was dangerous. Euth.
Another one. My first real horse, not pony. Annie went from being gimpy but happy to laying down and not wanting to get up. Would not eat and dropped weight quickly. I put her down as she made it clear that she was done. She was 22 I believe.
My good friends 35 year old pony limps and can’t trot, has almost no teeth, and is near blind. She still nickers at feed time, she still goes into turnout with her buddy, she eats and keeps decent weight, she is still active. Horse’s quality of life is borderline for me but the mare isn’t in pain or unhappy so my friend keeps her happy and as healthy as she can.
I think its on the horses mentality. They want to go on, they are happy and healthy even if it isn’t fully sound.
God that was a novel. I am sorry.
A reoccurring theme in these posts is “financially able”, “in a position to”…
Those of us who fall into that category and are able to make decisions based solely on the well being of the horse should count ourselves very lucky indeed.
But we are in the minority of horse owners. We are looking at this issue with rose colored glasses, and our horses are the beneficiaries.
The thread which prompted this thread was the discussion the pro’s and con’s of donating horses to a school/college/IHSA/Therapeutic program when a horse could no longer do what his owner wanted to do.
WHAT THEN?
I cannot quote statistics, but I believe that most one horse families are just that — able to maintain one horse. When the current horse gets too old or too creaky, and yet buying a second horse is not financially feasible, what then? I don’t think that anyone should feel obligated to maintain an old or “unsound for the intended use” horse at the expense of giving up their riding goals. I am definitely a pragmatist.
Providing 10 - 15 years of retirement is not within the reach of many people, unless they devote their equine budget to taking care of that horse, at the expense of their horsey goals and enjoyment.
If the horse is given away, donated, sold for a low amount, the owner loses control of their old friend’s future. Contracts, right of first refusal, etc, are hardly worth the paper they are written on. If the old guy is moved on from an approved situation, there is nothing the prior owner can do except sue for breach of contract. That is an expensive and frustrating option.
If I owned a horse who was no longer able to be a partner in my equestrian goals, and if I could not afford to buy another horse because I was still supporting the first one, I think I would seriously consider euthanasia. Not saying I would necessarily do it, but it would be one option I would think about. The future is uncertain – no one can know how their old friend will end up. But who wants to play the odds that their horse will never reach the end of the road at New Holland, or in a field with other, more dominant horses who take his food and pick on him until he becomes a walking carcass?
Lady E has said that she will NOT (emphasis hers) euthanize a horse who is not in physical need of it. Neither will my primary vet. – So what kind of dilemma are these owners, who want to be caring and do the right thing, caught up in?
I will never second guess another person’s choice in such a situation. The world is not as black and white as these vets believe. There are so many shades of gray, that “the right decision” may not always be the decision we would want to make.
I think it varies so much from horse to horse. I may not have done jaw surgery on a 25 year old, but I did colic surgery on a 30 year old pony. I felt like he could make it through, and still have great quality of life after. And he did. He still showed and went hilltopping years after the surgery. I would not have done it if he had been a 30 yr old TB. And when he started colicing again a few years later, we decided that putting him down was the best course of action.
I draw the line at horses that are hobbling around, or living on gruel. If they can’t eat hay and grass, IMO, that isn’t a very good quality of life. I know tons of people disagree. I am fortunate to have the ability to keep a horse forever. We got DD’s pony when she was 7 and the pony was 16. That was 5 years ago. My youngest child is not yet 2. By the time she outgrows the pony, the pony will be much too old to even think about sending on to someone else. She can live out her days as long as she can eat and walk.
OP, in response to post 35, I do see what you’re asking and it is a difficult question but it seems to me that if owners are aware that they have financial limitations than perhaps they could make some sort of financial plan for their horse’s future when they purchase the horse. There are ways to save for retirement, farms that offer pasture board at reduced rates, etc. I do understand that we as riders have goals but I have a hard time when these goals are at the expense of the animals. Is their purpose merely to serve us or do we have a responsiblity to them as well?
I’m not saying there is a right answer and it probably depends on who you ask but personally, I try to do all I can to ensure that my horse has what he needs even when his usable days have passed. Of course, life can be unpredictable and sometimes we have to make decisions we don’t want to make and that is okay but it seems unfair to purchase a horse planning to euthanize when his usable days are over and making no other plan for his retirement. It seems like there are better options and I’ve always thought of euthanasia as a last resort when no other option is suitable. Like I said, there is probably no right answer and it is a very difficult subject, just playing devil’s advocate.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8059621]
A reoccurring theme in these posts is “financially able”, “in a position to”…
Those of us who fall into that category and are able to make decisions based solely on the well being of the horse should count ourselves very lucky indeed.
But we are in the minority of horse owners. We are looking at this issue with rose colored glasses, and our horses are the beneficiaries.
The thread which prompted this thread was the discussion the pro’s and con’s of donating horses to a school/college/IHSA/Therapeutic program when a horse could no longer do what his owner wanted to do.
WHAT THEN?
I cannot quote statistics, but I believe that most one horse families are just that — able to maintain one horse. When the current horse gets too old or too creaky, and yet buying a second horse is not financially feasible, what then? I don’t think that anyone should feel obligated to maintain an old or “unsound for the intended use” horse at the expense of giving up their riding goals. I am definitely a pragmatist.
Providing 10 - 15 years of retirement is not within the reach of many people, unless they devote their equine budget to taking care of that horse, at the expense of their horsey goals and enjoyment.
If the horse is given away, donated, sold for a low amount, the owner loses control of their old friend’s future. Contracts, right of first refusal, etc, are hardly worth the paper they are written on. If the old guy is moved on from an approved situation, there is nothing the prior owner can do except sue for breach of contract. That is an expensive and frustrating option.
If I owned a horse who was no longer able to be a partner in my equestrian goals, and if I could not afford to buy another horse because I was still supporting the first one, I think I would seriously consider euthanasia. Not saying I would necessarily do it, but it would be one option I would think about. The future is uncertain – no one can know how their old friend will end up. But who wants to play the odds that their horse will never reach the end of the road at New Holland, or in a field with other, more dominant horses who take his food and pick on him until he becomes a walking carcass?
Lady E has said that she will NOT (emphasis hers) euthanize a horse who is not in physical need of it. Neither will my primary vet. – So what kind of dilemma are these owners, who want to be caring and do the right thing, caught up in?
I will never second guess another person’s choice in such a situation. The world is not as black and white as these vets believe. There are so many shades of gray, that “the right decision” may not always be the decision we would want to make.[/QUOTE]
You bring up an excellent point here, which was the crux of that college donation thread.
Several phrases of your post jumped off the page at me: [B] “giving up their riding goals,” and “at the expense of their horsey goals and enjoyment.”
[/B]It comes down to the nature of the relationship you have with your horse: For many people, the pet or “family” aspect is more important than showing or whatever other “goal” they might have had. These are the people for whom euth in the absence of medical need is usually not an option; they will forego riding if need be and keep their old guy in retirement, or lease or catch-ride while they do so. They also tend to be older people, not aspirational juniors.
With those who see a horse first as “athletic equipment,” for whom using the horse as a means to and end comes before the relationship (if any) they have with their horse then you’re right–often their answer is going to be euthanasia upon loss of use. That’s their right, their option, their choice. It’s their “property.” We’ve all read many stories on here about the person who “just couldn’t afford to keep him” but appear at the barn with something new and fancy 2 weeks after he’s put down. For them I will not play enabler, making the arrangements, holding the leadshank and making that inconvenient discomfort go away, because it’s not in accordance with MY ethics, or my vet’s, unless all legitimate attempts to find the horse an alternative have been exhausted. (This is in reference to healthy, safe, ordinary-maintenance horses).
There are far more “jobs” than ever before today for a horse who can no longer be an “athlete.” Most people are aware of the free-lease option so they can arrange things so he doesn’t wind up on the wrong end of the auction. But there are homes to be found for “husband horse,” weekend trail horse, Pony Club schoolmaster, 4-H project, safe lead-liner for tiny kids, therapy horses, confidence builders and even, believe it or not, “pasture ornaments” and companions. I’ve even met a few older folk who are now too frail to want to ride, but love to do Parelli type ground work! That’s their enjoyment. Many of these horses will “work” less than an hour a week, and that at a walk. They will often be able to happily forego living in a stall, being shod, having regular hock injections, chiro, accu., all the things that make them expensive where they are now. When the issue comes up that someone “has” to get out from under their older horse, my vet’s networking and mine go into high gear and you’d be astounded at the safe, happy situations we’ve found! Win-win for all. But you HAVE to work at finding the right fit–and that may take a few months.
Not ALL schools or therapeutic programs will dump them, especially if you do a lease or have it in your contract that the horse comes back to you if they no longer want to keep him in their program. There are also people who’ve ALWAYS had a horse or two at home, and just lost their old guy. When a need exists, sometimes they can be persuaded to have a new face over the stall door in the morning–for companionship and the peaceful habit of barn keeping. For a real eye-opener, hit one of the auction-rescue sites where people crowd-fund thousands in a couple of hours, from all over the country, and network quarantines and trailer ships for total strangers out of pure generosity! All to help out a horse in trouble. If NONE of those options will work for a given animal, then fine–euth you must. But TRY first, that’s all!
As LH says above, I will never second-guess another person’s choice in such a situation. It isn’t on my karma. But if you have me involved, I try to do what’s right by THE HORSE. Your ego, your goals and your jollies really don’t mean all that much to me. Not enough to kill for, at any event. :no:
Horses are pretty stoic. Sometimes it is hard to ‘know’ if they are in pain. I have always made ‘the decision’ based on how much it pains ME to watch them and how I feel about their prognosis for a “quality life” which to me has more to do with pain. Totally subjective and of course I have made mistakes. Generally, better a day too soon than a moment too late. My Habi probably should have been put down 2 yrs before he was. Those last 2 yrs were dreadfully expensive and I don’t think he would have objected to missing them. Because we can extend their life doesn’t always mean we should.
