I have a wonderful 19 year old who is happy, healthy and sound. We got to the point where he was not enjoying higher level dressage (I-1), I briefly free leased to a friend for lower level dressage until she got a new horse. I now have a useful horse without a job, but I absolutely won’t try to rehome him as I have to KNOW he is well cared for, loved etc., so he is retired. It would be nice to find the right job for him, but I can’t put him at any risk. However I am lucky - I can retire him at home. I understand other choices!
I’ve seen plenty of animal owner’s who can’t deal with the cost of euth or the logistics of disposal so they dither. I’m for ‘rehome or euth’ clinics, that’s basically how most small animal shelters work but this would deal with horse specific issues. I also know that many good rescues who need donations to survive don’t dare host one because of backlash from the donor core. A specialist group would be very helpful in many areas.
And Spud&Saf’s post is exactly why I love boarding retired horses. Not everyone has to share his/her opinion, but I’ve found that people who choose to retire their horses are a self-selecting group of very kind and caring individuals – so I really like my boarders, and we share a common point of view.
Again – I am not saying EVERYONE has to think this way, just that my boarders and I do, so we get on very well!
I think a retirement/euthanasia clinic is a wonderful idea. I KNOW that there are horses suffering because the owners don’t have the resources to euthanize and dispose of the body, and are hoping they just go on their own, while in the meantime, the horse is in pain and without adequate care.
[QUOTE=SMF11;8060954]
In my case I have a small paddock that can be grazed down to make a dry lot. I would not take a horse that could not be on pasture(as I’m set up just so they CAN be on pasture!) but if one that had been here a number of years needed to stop grass and I could work with them, I probably would. If the horse needed more care than I could give (e.g. needed to be inside every day) I would suggest the owner find a barn with the facilities and services the horse needed.
As for your mare being out on pasture, if she were here I’d absolutely use a grazing muzzle. None of my boarders have been air ferns, but my kids’ pony was/is and I put a grazing muzzle on him overnight in the summers and that was enough to keep his weight at an ideal level. There are all sorts of ways to manage easy keepers; I can’t offer them all, but besides muzzles I’ve done a trace clip on the pony in the fall so he wouldn’t get too fat on the free choice hay I offer.
As a rule, the more you pay in board, the more you get. So you don’t pay the same for a “throw them out in the field and rarely check them” kind of place as you do for mine, with more hands on care, which in turn is much cheaper than a place with a staff and stalls and the ability to offer more labor-intensive services.[/QUOTE]
THIS^, ditto, for me too. I have never truly considered doing the dirt-lot thing, mostly because of unsightliness and erosion problems and the wood-chewing that comes with boredom. My neighbor just down the road HAS three, and I tend to route the fluffy-risky horses to him because he’s better set up to handle that.
For every 24/7 turnout on grass place you’ll find forty who have small run-outs, dirt pens, or very little grass. The trick is to find a place that has the right set-up and care, but DOESN’T have (or at least, charge, for) things you won’t be needing for a retiree–indoor arena, lessons, jumps, grooming by staff, etc.
In your position, QA, I’d be looking for a nice pleasure or beginner oriented barn, maybe even Western, that has good care and can give your mare the turnout she needs on limited grass. They might even have some kids who could use her for 4-H “showing and fitting” classes or would just enjoy combing, brushing, and loving on her. THAT would be a perfect fit for all of you, win-win-win scenario.
[QUOTE=HorsesinHaiti;8061000]
I’ve seen plenty of animal owner’s who can’t deal with the cost of euth or the logistics of disposal so they dither. I’m for ‘rehome or euth’ clinics, that’s basically how most small animal shelters work but this would deal with horse specific issues. I also know that many good rescues who need donations to survive don’t dare host one because of backlash from the donor core. A specialist group would be very helpful in many areas.[/QUOTE]
I can totally see offering this maybe 4 times per year, kind of a “flashmob” style thing with volunteers, rather than setting up a non-profit. The euth. fluid and the labor could easily be written off by vet firms as a “donation,” and the best route for disposal would be to get a local rendering company to come and collect, for at most a small fee if not a writeoff for them also; after all, they’re getting a lot of “raw material.”
In THE most expensive part of the country, a farm call and euthanasia is currently running around $135.00. To me it is a COMPLETE HEAD-SMACKER that someone “cannot afford” this and yet still owns a horse! With what are you buying hay and grain? Farrier? Vaccinations? Disposal is a little harder issue, highly dependent on what’s legal and available in your area. This can range from your brother-in-law’s backhoe for free for an hour to $1,200 or more for a deluxe cremation. Most people I know go the burial or render route for $400.00 or so.
I still maintain that if someone can’t manage an “emergency fund” of around $500.00 for this, WHAT would they do if the horse broke a leg? Or if they found it just plain dead in the morning? Because the slope to neglect or sub-standard care is SO slippery, I strongly believe a certain level of financial security is required to be a horse owner. While situations change and people are left in desperate straits, they need to THINK OF THIS BEFORE the situation strikes!
A good place to run the kind of clinic LH mentioned would be the local auction house or livestock dealer’s place. A good point is that even the KB’s aren’t going to take something that isn’t ambulatory, is emaciated, ancient, or visibly ill.
I might add that the volunteers at such an endeavor are saints with strong stomachs!
I just spent $150 for the vet and $275 for removal a month ago, it wasn’t nearly as expensive as I anticipated.
I confess that I haven’t read all the posts, so this may have been covered already.
What about a horse who is older, can’t do what owner wants, or kid wants to move up past older horse.
They have no place of their own.
Can’t find horse a “home”. Horse has no major soundness issues, just can’t compete at the level it was, and is now on the end of the second home, can’t keep up with the lower level of riding.
I see it a lot. It is hard to see.
On the other hand, I am all for euthanasia “days”, or clinics.
last time I had one put down, 12 years ago, it was $200. For the farm call and euth, and $175.00 for the backhoe, only because a dear friend allowed the animal to be hauled to and buried at her place. I do not live in the most expensive part of the country, far from it. And the key piece there is that I had a place to bury the horse, had I had to pay for cremation or disposal somewhere else, it would have been much more.
Also, I believe rendering plants will not take an animal that has been given the euthanasia drug - kennels and zoos won’t, certainly. Going that route means a bullet or a captive bolt gun, and a whole other set of problems.
I suspect if you bought a backyard pony that was low maintenence 15 years ago, and now the pony riders are grown and gone, and the pony know needs hay cubes, equine senior and supplements that you can’t afford, you be inclined to let the thing slowly gimp around and starve rather than do the right thing. That’s the market for the retirement evaluation clinic.
Our local renderers (knacker I think they call it some other places) most certainly take carcasses resulting from the common euthanasia drugs. Boarding for decades at big training barns (40 to about 75 head) for years and now a retirement/lay up it is something I am familiar with, as owner of an old horse, even priced it out. I have 600 in mind and available worst case.
Around here, if you can haul them to the clinic to put them down there its about 175 for the euth and maybe 275-300 for disposal. If it involves a farm call it’s 50-75 more for the vet farm call depending on mileage (maybe even more for an after hours emergency call). Rendering hauler could be as much as 500 depending on how accesible the remains are and time and equipment needed to retrieve them.
Just in case anybody thinks this is morbid thinking? No, it’s called being practical. Everybody knows what to do with dogs and cats many horse iwners assume it won’t happen and are clueless. Nobody tells you about it and one day you are looking at the body or get that phone call and ask “now what”? They can find some very inconvenient and borderline inaccessible places to die. It is part of horse ownership to try plan for that kind of retrieval not happening if you have a senior or one in poor health, nothing dignified about that, not the way to say goodbye. And it can double or even triple the cost.
You know, LHU, it is funny that you bring this up, as your thread on daBear’s fight made me think about the same thing.
Tip is 20 this year. He is still readily mistaken for a horse half his age and I sincerely hope he has another happy, healthy decade in him, but in some ways he is starting to show his years. For him, I have decided that the dividing line between “do I do this treatment or not?” is how it impacts his quality of life over a period longer than a month. I define his quality of life as the ability to eat his hay and whatever breakfast and supper are put in a feed bucket, be touched all over his body without pain, and move comfortably in turnout for 12 hours or more in good weather.
Any injury or procedure that would require over a month of stall rest is one that’s going to make me think hard about whether it’s worth doing- he is not a horse who appreciates stall rest, he reacts poorly to limited movement, and it’s very hard on his body to get fit again after a rest period. Horses live in the moment, and being confined would be a very bad long moment for him. I’ll be thinking even harder if it’s over a month of stall rest for an uncertain degree of quality future. So for example, if he went and blew a tendon in the field tomorrow, his treatment would not be “stall rest for three months with hand walking and shockwave weekly.” His treatment would be “stabilize him to pasture soundness and employ Dr. Green for a year, and if he doesn’t make measurable progress in a year, then he is retired.” If my vet doubted that he would recover to pasture soundness, then I’d be thinking about euthanasia. For the same reason he is not a candidate for colic surgery. I’m not going to put a horse who metabolizes sedatives in a peculiar fashion through a surgery that requires general anesthesia and then make him miserable sitting in a stall for half a year to recover when who knows how many half a years he is going to have left.
We all hope that they go in their sleep under an apple tree but I think it’s sensible to plan ahead, and I’ve ensured that his file at the barn has this information as well, should they not be able to reach me in case of emergency.
We need to do what is best for them, which is sometimes hardest for us.
Renn,
I am happy that the Bear thread and this thread got you thinking. Pip has always had THE BEST MOTHER in the world, and now you will remain THE BEST right up until the end.
With Warren and CT still in the retiree’s field, I will have more opportunity to practice my end of life decisions. And I will be carefully listening to what my vet does, and does NOT say. With Bear I was scared and then worried and then afraid and then sad. Now I am getting pissed at the lack of support I have had from the professionals on “my team”.
I feel like I cannot rely on a vet/surgeon/equine specialist to sit down with me and discuss LIFE questions. Not medical or sugical questions, but life – quality of life, chance of recovery, pain (both physical and emotional – as you said, knowing your horse – the emotional pain might be worse than the physical) issues. And, yes, financial issues.
I will probably call a different vet for spring shots to see if I can develop a better rapport with someone else. I hate to be sexist, but I am thinking that a woman vet might approach a horse’s care from a holistic POV.
What is strange is that I am even typing the word holistic. Me who has candy for dinner and pizza for desert. And thinks that exercise is mowing a field. 
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8058513]
SMF, Thank you for your views. They are caring and valid, and I agree with you. The advantages your boarders have is that they are in good hands, with someone who puts their well being as a priority. Many people cannot find or afford a quality retirement situation. Your boarders are very lucky.
I did not mean to imply that that living a long life is a bad thing. I really wrote my post as a carthartic reaction to a lot of emotion I have been holding inside me.
It was the thread on H/J about donating an older horse to a school/college that got me really thinking about moving a horse on to someone else when he cannot fulfill his role under your ownership, that precipitated my post.
When a person no longer can or wants to keep a horse, there are 3 choices: 1. sell/give/donate, 2. retire or 3. euthanize.
If the horse is not old and has a career ahead of him, then, of course selling or giving away is the obvious choice.
And if you have $4000+/year for perhaps 15 years (that’s $60,000!) to retire your horse at a good place, then that is a very good option for an older horse.
BUT if neither of those options are feasible, then (IMHO) the idea of euthanization should definitely be “on the table” and seriously considered before deciding to give him away or donate him.
Had you asked me 2 months ago, I would not have had the same mindset. So I am assuming that many others don’t either. Hopefully, an open discussion of the issue will get people thinking of what they feel comfortable doing. Because the time to think this through is long before a decision needs to be made.[/QUOTE]
LH: I appreciated your post on the “I lost the Drive” thread in H/J…but I wasn’t aware that you had recently come to that conclusion. I’m sorry you had to, but I think it is the conclusion a true horsewoman would arrive at, so good on you. You did right by Bear as you’ve done right by others in your care.
I’m a proponent of the three options you listed (sell, retire, euthanize) and my response to any given situation will vary depending on the details. I don’t like when people are made to feel bad for considering Euthanasia over retirement. They are both viable options and as long as the horse’s well-being is considered first and you are not just dumping them into retirement or death, either is a human and caring choice.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8061176]
I can totally see offering this maybe 4 times per year, kind of a “flashmob” style thing with volunteers, rather than setting up a non-profit. The euth. fluid and the labor could easily be written off by vet firms as a “donation,” and the best route for disposal would be to get a local rendering company to come and collect, for at most a small fee if not a writeoff for them also; after all, they’re getting a lot of "raw material…A good place to run the kind of clinic LH mentioned would be the local auction house or livestock dealer’s place. A good point is that even the KB’s aren’t going to take something that isn’t ambulatory, is emaciated, ancient, or visibly ill. "[/QUOTE]
Occasional and without need of a formal organization would be great. I’m not sure how much could be written off, or what insurance against ‘euther’s remorse’ a vet would need :no: I also like the idea of holding it at the auctions where people dump horses, so long as someone is confirming that the euth horses truly do get euth’ed.
Agreed that good horse owners do all this, but the fact is many people don’t and then the horse needs someone to help out. Take my ‘rides but never owned’ neighbor who tried to do right and take over care of a mare someone stupidly bought in this country - stupid because here you can’t completely keep roaming studs from reaching mares, and this mare throws only fillies. Original person left, left the young mare behind, softy neighbor discovered afterwards how poorly birth control works on horses without spending $$$. Soft neighbor is a borderline hoarder because he sees so many local horses being poorly fed and treated, so he doesn’t want to let go of any of the progeny. He just can’t deal with the thought of either sending them off to an uncertain fate, or euthing a horse, or letting go of an old car for that matter. If he were in the USA and had to work out logistics for a euth and disposal, he’d just freeze. Like my mom emotionally froze up when our family dog was going downhill. I and my brother had to make the call and take the dog to the vet. Those type of people often WILL make the decision if it is phrased as ‘bring the animal to a kindly expert who can make the decision and handle the logistics, and it won’t cost an intimidating amount’ with some coaxing. Those are ones whose horses would particularly benefit from a euth clinic. It is most certainly damage control, but damage control is what’s necessary.
Totally agree!
Why would it have been a huge shame? Your pony, who sounds like had a lovely life, didn’t know that he would have that and didn’t really care about tomorrow in the same way we do. He just lived each day in the present.
It wouldn’t be a shame to make a different decision for him as long as it was a humane decision…and I think that’s the point.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8059899]
With those who see a horse first as “athletic equipment,” for whom using the horse as a means to and end comes before the relationship (if any) they have with their horse then you’re right–often their answer is going to be euthanasia upon loss of use. That’s their right, their option, their choice. It’s their “property.” We’ve all read many stories on here about the person who “just couldn’t afford to keep him” but appear at the barn with something new and fancy 2 weeks after he’s put down. [/QUOTE]
this is pretty judgmental. My horses are my life. I adore them. I suffer so they can have the best of what I can afford. And yet, I also have riding goals that I’d like to progress towards. When a horse is clearly not working for me, I thin about what is the right choice for that horse. Is it selling it to a different kind of home? Is it retirement? Is it euthanasia? I should be given the benefit of the doubt that I’m not just thinking about myself…even if I choose euthanasia for a horse someone else thinks should spend the next 15 years in a pasture somewhere.
I find people that rule out euthanasia without careful consideration are immature. I’ve seen countless horses kept alive for nothing more than an owner who doesn’t want to deal with the emotions of putting one to sleep. Is it really better for the pasture sound horse to be stuck out in the back field and ignored for months on end rather than being put down? I think not.
This is such a difficult and painful choice. It can also be a very lonely choice, and we want confirmation that what we choose is the right thing, but sometimes it’s not that easy. I’m not sure what I would have done in the OP’s situation, but I think I might well have chosen euthanasia earlier. Yet who knows? Hindsight is 20-20, and sometimes whether we end up regretting our choice depends on the outcome of something we couldn’t have predicted.
If I am 100% honest, I have very little respect for people who euthanize just for convenience (to get a younger, more useful horse) and then want others to approve what they did. That’s where I draw my line, which doesn’t mean I don’t think financial considerations are legitimate.
I’m lucky that I have $$ to pay for retirement for one horse while also owning a younger horse (and at one point leasing a third), but then I’m not the kind of person who needs to live in a McMansion or drive a luxury car. Plus I have a great husband who knows how important the horses are to me. I have a coming 28 y/o that has been retired for 3 (or 4?) years. She is an easy keeper and looks pretty darn good. While some people may think I’m crazy for paying as much as I do on her board, it’s worth every penny. I agree with this:
[QUOTE=Spud&Saf;8060970]
I will happily pay her board for all those months and years because to me, the journey of aging with such a beautiful soul is priceless.[/QUOTE]
My mare has taught me this. This is the only horse I’ve had that gets to grow old with me. I lost two mares (ages 7 & 10) in a 3-year period, and I’ve sold all my other horses. As I look foward, I don’t have a lot of rules, except I know that I would not put her through major surgery - or any major painful procedure - and that I won’t hesitate to bring up euthanasia with the vet if I have any doubt at all.
One more thing, and I hope it’s okay to say this here. If not, I’ll delete it. In the last couple of years, I’ve seen three friends deal with very elderly parents who have no quality of life - by which I mean they are miserable and barely lucid. I think I am most appalled at what we do to extend the life of humans.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.
For the record, I am also agaisnt anyone who euthanizes a horse because he is no longer useful and it is convenient.
BUT, how many people actually do this? WHY would you spend money to euthanize a horse which could be sold (for $$)? Why would you spend money to euthanize a horse who could be given away (to a decent home, such that the owner would not worry or feel guilty about the horse’s eventual happiness)?
Anyone who would euthanize a horse instead of selling it or giving it away to a good situation is wacko crazy because it makes no sense to do so.
99% of people who move on to another horse would only euthanize if selling or giving away are not viable options. I mean, just look at all the people on Craig’s list who are trying to sell or give away horses! It is EASIER and CHEAPER to sell or give away. And yet those choices also often considered the “humane” options.
Sometimes the humane option is the hard (and costly) option. I cannot envision a situation where a horse is euthanized because it is the easy option.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8062250]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.
For the record, I am also agaisnt anyone who euthanizes a horse because he is no longer useful and it is convenient.
BUT, how many people actually do this? WHY would you spend money to euthanize a horse which could be sold (for $$)? Why would you spend money to euthanize a horse who could be given away (to a decent home, such that the owner would not worry or feel guilty about the horse’s eventual happiness)?
Anyone who would euthanize a horse instead of selling it or giving it away to a good situation is wacko crazy because it makes no sense to do so.
99% of people who move on to another horse would only euthanize if selling or giving away are not viable options. I mean, just look at all the people on Craig’s list who are trying to sell or give away horses! It is EASIER and CHEAPER to sell or give away. And yet those choices also often considered the “humane” options.
Sometimes the humane option is the hard (and costly) option. I cannot envision a situation where a horse is euthanized because it is the easy option.[/QUOTE]
I can give you two reasons why they want to do that; a very strong need for control, an inability to accept uncertainty, and often, an admirable sense of personal responsibility. These are the people who often ARE willing to step up to the plate, absorb the emotions, do the nasty. They are often foxhunters, older folks, and real horsemen. That’s why it’s very difficult to argue the point with them, because they WANT to be responsible and in many ways are on the right side of the question. They come from a world with fewer alternatives, and are afraid of what will happen if they DON’T put the horse down.
Trouble is, they’re often jumping the gun (literally) because they haven’t done the research or haven’t the connections to know that viable alternatives to putting their horse down exist.
I’ve dealt with this POV often enough that I’ve had to make it a rule at my barn: I will not euthanize a healthy animal on my premises (for non-medical or behavioral reasons). You want to do that, I can’t stop you, the horse is your property–but YOU do it. Trailer him to the vet clinic; I won’t hold the lead shank. Especially if you’ve had 3 or 5 or 8 years to find an alternative, and just never bothered. I WILL help people network them a new home, or even cut them a reduced-board deal or find a “sponsor” if they’re in straits so the horse can go on living here. When a horse has a medical NEED to be euthanized, I have no problem making all the arrangements to the owner’s wishes, and assisting in the deed.
The definition of “euthanasia” is mercy-killing; a quick end to unacceptable suffering. IMO it does not apply to a happy, shiny, healthy horse strolling about and eating his hay. Any more than you want to get a knock on the door from your landlord saying, “I’m sorry, Mrs. H., but you won’t be needing your morning coffee today. Dr. Kevorkian and the hearse are on the way, you’ll be going this morning at around 10.”
Sorry, owner inconvenience is not animal suffering. I won’t pretend it is just to assuage someone’s comfort zone.
