This isn’t really a vice but a deal breaker for me is a horse with unpredictable hoof problems. I recently leased a horse with horrible thrush (we tried everything!) and during the winter and spring he wasn’t sound almost half the time I went out to the barn.
I also don’t like horses who are pushy on the ground but that can usually be fixed pretty easily.
Rearing. Kicking out. Herd-bound or otherwise napping.
It takes as much $s to look after a bad horse as a good horse - so go for a good horse.
40+ years of all kinds of horses and I will not deal with mean. Like in I hate people. I hate other horses. I hate anything that happens to cross my path. Mean. Nearly every kind of “vice” or product of poor training can be dealt with. But just plain 'ol mean temperment is not worth risking my life or anyone else’s.
rearing
You know, it’s funny. I am pretty sure I’ve dealt with everything they can throw at you- from try and kill you in the paddock, to rodeo bronc.
I have a horse here now who came out of the kill pen at New Holland. When he arrived, other than the fact that he was ridiculously underweight, he also thought that it was best if he got you, before you got him- feet or teeth. I long lined him after he’d been here for a bit, and he was quite determined to kick my head off. He is 17 hands, at least, and very, very powerful. He is not for the faint of heart.
I just spend a whole lot of time watching horses, and seeing who I think that they are. This guy? He is on his third week of Omeprazole. He is starting to show me some good stuff. I am fairly sure that he doesn’t know what it is not to hurt. He is just figuring it out, and he is quite a character.
So, after all of that- here is my answer. The rodeo bronc that I cannot fix. Not through chiro, other Veterinary intervention, training, etc. That one wants to hurt you.
The rest? I remain unconvinced that bad horses are born. I do not think that everyone is cut out, or meant, to deal with the tough ones, but here, they get a chance.
One of the toughest, ever, gives me kisses every day. He has been here 16 years, and I adore him. He isn’t easy, but then, he doesn’t need to be. He has a home.
[QUOTE=Simkie;8896371]
I’d be super curious what a truly top notch massage person would think of this, given how useful things like foam rollers and lacrosse balls are at reducing pain from angry muscles. It could be that he’s just figured out how to relieve some sort of muscle pain all on his own. Might not be a vice–might be brilliant.
Sitting on buckets is a common “hock horse” thing so not too much of a stretch that this is also related to some sort of discomfort.[/QUOTE]
He doesn’t actual sit on the buckets-no weight on them, he just stands with them between his back legs. He used to squeeze them but now he just stands there. Maybe it started as a habit after being sore one day, but I find it hard to believe he is in pain as neither my vet nor my trainer have picked up on anything. I have had him since he was 11 and know this horse like the back of my hand and seldom miss even a minor NQR issue.
And just an FYI, he had a complete lameness work up last week, as I do every fall, and no issues came up.
Weaving.
Thousands of dollars later we figured out my horse is lame on her right front due to bad arthritis in her neck, most likely caused by her weaving. Unable to be ridden anymore.
My deal breaker is a horse who is overly aggressive towards other horses- causes injury with vicious bites - especially a food aggresive horse who leaves their own feed bucket to chase pasture buddies away from theirs in that back and forth, bucket to bucket ‘no one eats but me’ dance.
Most stable vices disappear in our setup (outdoor life w/ neverending forage and lots of enrichment) and the ridden vices also tend to become total non-issues when any underlying pain/fear is dealt with. So no specific vices would turn me away from a sale. As long as the temperament is basically ok, I’d give it a shot.
Cribbing or weaving/stall/fence walking
Rearing.
[QUOTE=heronponie;8896902]
Most stable vices disappear in our setup (outdoor life w/ neverending forage and lots of enrichment) and the ridden vices also tend to become total non-issues when any underlying pain/fear is dealt with. So no specific vices would turn me away from a sale. As long as the temperament is basically ok, I’d give it a shot.[/QUOTE]
Then, there are horses like the mare, in 1000+ acre pastures with canyons and creeks and brush and valleys, with other horses to play with, to go graze with, that just stands there cribbing on the top of a fence post all day and night long.
Or the one horse that walks the fence in a pen, that after you open the gate and lead him to the prettiest grass, takes a couple bites and walk himself back to the pen and the fence walking, if turned out will walk the fence while all other horses go off to graze and take naps and just be horses, that you have to keep shod, or he will wear his hooves down to a nub and cripple himself and still try to fence walk.
I’ve had a cribber and I currently own a weaver. Cribber was completely controlled by a collar, and did not crib when turned out. When we switched him to a situation with mostly turnout (24/7 weather permitting and 12/12 in the winter) he stopped cribbing all together.
My weaver is much the same way. Good turnout, buds to hang out with, and a roundbale and you’d never know she was a weaver. Try to stick her in a stall forever and she’s unhappy. She’s great away from home so long as she has hay in front of her and can get out regularly. I had her at a 3-day clinic in the spring where I was supposed to have 24/7 access to a small paddock but the turnout fell through and all I could get was a couple of supervised hours/day in a ring. I took her for a few hacks/day around the farm and made sure to hand graze her, and she was perfect in her stall.
I would also never buy a confirmed rearer or bolter. I might work with a bolter in a specific controlled environment, but would never volunteer to be the one to try and break the bolting habit.
Real, nasty aggression would also be curtains for me. Most nasty behaviour, in my experience, is caused by a combo of fear and pain, and I’m willing to work through a good chunk of it, but I have to feel basically safe around the horse. Fine if I need to be on my guard and exercise extra caution, but nothing extreme.
A friend of mine once owned a horse who charged people in turnout. Full gallop, laid back ears, and ready to spin and kick or strike out with his front legs when he got to you. I would not be willing to deal with something like that.
As a person who doesn’t have their own farm, I feel like any horse I buy needs to not have vices that would make a BO not take us. My first horse is a cribber, and don’t get me wrong, he has been nothing but perfect in pretty much every other way. But he was also my coach/BO’s horse for 6-7 years before I bought him from her, so he was grandfathered in. I don’t think she would take a new boarder who was a cribber (I know she hates it, for good reason). My horse is an awful cribber, too–buckets, fences, stall walls, you name it. No collar or deterrent ever worked on him, but because he’s great we deal. I just wouldn’t want to feel like I couldn’t move barns because Barn A puts up with my cribbing, or wood chewing, or whatever vice you’d care to insert there, and Barn B might not. This is of course on top of having zero tolerance for dangerous behavior, or clearly evident lack of self-preservation (which I find totally obnoxious bordering on scary, having seen horses who completely blank out and do lethal things).
I also thought at one point that bad trailering was a deal breaker (almost didn’t buy my current horse because of it), but it turned out to be an issue easily resolved with time, repeated exposure, and consistent handling, so that’s off my list now 
[QUOTE=Bluey;8897136]
Then, there are horses like the mare, in 1000+ acre pastures with canyons and creeks and brush and valleys, with other horses to play with, to go graze with, that just stands there cribbing on the top of a fence post all day and night long.
Or the one horse that walks the fence in a pen, that after you open the gate and lead him to the prettiest grass, takes a couple bites and walk himself back to the pen and the fence walking, if turned out will walk the fence while all other horses go off to graze and take naps and just be horses, that you have to keep shod, or he will wear his hooves down to a nub and cripple himself and still try to fence walk.[/QUOTE]
As I said, I’d give it a shot. You’re welcome to choose differently.
[QUOTE=heronponie;8897808]
As I said, I’d give it a shot. You’re welcome to choose differently.[/QUOTE]
We did give them shots, all kinds, nothing worked, some horses are past help, that is who they are, what they do, all you can do is manage around that.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;8896752]
You know, it’s funny. I am pretty sure I’ve dealt with everything they can throw at you- from try and kill you in the paddock, to rodeo bronc.
I have a horse here now who came out of the kill pen at New Holland. When he arrived, other than the fact that he was ridiculously underweight, he also thought that it was best if he got you, before you got him- feet or teeth. I long lined him after he’d been here for a bit, and he was quite determined to kick my head off. He is 17 hands, at least, and very, very powerful. He is not for the faint of heart.
I just spend a whole lot of time watching horses, and seeing who I think that they are. This guy? He is on his third week of Omeprazole. He is starting to show me some good stuff. I am fairly sure that he doesn’t know what it is not to hurt. He is just figuring it out, and he is quite a character.
So, after all of that- here is my answer. The rodeo bronc that I cannot fix. Not through chiro, other Veterinary intervention, training, etc. That one wants to hurt you.
The rest? I remain unconvinced that bad horses are born. I do not think that everyone is cut out, or meant, to deal with the tough ones, but here, they get a chance.
One of the toughest, ever, gives me kisses every day. He has been here 16 years, and I adore him. He isn’t easy, but then, he doesn’t need to be. He has a home.[/QUOTE]
I agree. For me if I like a horse, there is no deal breaker…
Cribbing, weaving, kicking, biting, bucking, rearing, bolting, or difficult to handle. There are too many nice horses out there to have to deal with the others.
“Bad Actor” who can’t live in a herd without savaging the other horses in dangerous ways, such as trying to run them through a fence. They might do fine in a stabled, hyper-controlled setting, but they sure as hell can’t live HERE because some things just aren’t worth it.
Under saddle, my least-favorite is napping and barn-rattiness that culminates in rearing. That’ll get even the most “talented” animal a ticket outta here. If I can’t take you for a relaxing trail ride, buddy, you haven’t got the kind of mind I consider “useful.”
OTOH, if you never have to leave the ring, you might make a STELLAR “dressage” horse! :lol: “There’s someone for everyone.” --Kenny Rogers
[QUOTE=Bluey;8897822]
We did give them shots, all kinds, nothing worked, some horses are past help, that is who they are, what they do, all you can do is manage around that.[/QUOTE]
Hey random stranger, I was trying to politely tell you to leave me out of your comments. Now I’ll be less polite: your experiences are not more valid than mine, your opinions do not represent the One True Path. I’m glad they work for you, but they have absolutely no bearing on me or mine, so stop tagging me.
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