We have clients who pay their bills on time, make reasonable requests and are a pleasure to work with. We also have clients who want to pay the budget billed estimate that we all agreed was just a ballpark, not the real thing, they have endless change orders, they don’t want to pay for what we did and then they changed their minds, so they just create grief…yeah, after 40 years in a small business, I am very grateful for the good ones and I don’t diminish their goodness just because “it’s expected.” You have to see and appreciate the good ones, at least I do.
This thread bothers me and I think the peeps defending vets are getting riled up and missing the point.
There are great vets that are amazing diagnosticians that charge accordingly for those services and explain why they want to do xyz. I’ll pay exorbitant cost to that vet to have them treat my dog because it fixes my animal faster and with less stress then throwing the kitchen sink and hoping you get lucky.
I complain when a vet goes the kitchen sink route or starts with the high end stuff on a minor symptom and charges the same prices or bill would be bigger then the vet that explains rationally why they want to perform certain services. It makes them seem incompetent. Explain to me why you are doing what you want to do. I’m competent enough to know if it’s reasonable or not after having creatures for over 30 years and working at a vets office back in the day.
And I’m a great client that pays same day, follows all treatment plans, purchases everything I can at the vets to help keep the office open and profitable. I refer peeps and send occasional treats if my pup is there for anything more than routine. So not sure what else I could do to make myself a better client. Some vets may hate me as a horse person, but my current expensive and talented vets love me and my crazy dog.
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This thread bothers me and I think the peeps defending vets are getting riled up and missing the point.
I don’t think they’re missing the point unless they’re being wilfully ignorant.
It’s quite obvious some people believe it’s okay for a vet to order and carry out procedures/tests without asking permission of the owner first.
As long as the customer is respectful, any vet should respect and appreciate any animal owner for being their pet’s advocate and for being honest that they only have so much money available.
If a customer is upfront and tells the vet how much they can afford, why is it so hard for that vet to work within the available finances?
Also, why do some vets get angry and defensive if they charge $400 for something and the owner goes to another vet that charges $200 for the exact same care and services?
Sorry - but which posters think it’s ok for a vet to perform procedures on the pet without asking first?
Unless you’re talking about an estimate versus an actual procedure - E.g. my bitch had a mammary lump and when the vet when in to remove it, it looked more suspicious than anticipated, so he performed a partial mastectomy which was a more extensive, and more expensive procedure. Of course I think he did the right thing.
I guess I’m stuck on the part where people think the vets are bad and keep going to them. If you don’t feel confident that your vet is giving you accurate diagnosis and treatment - why are you still using them?
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Those who spoke(and those that agree) against Shiloh’s experience and reaction?
Going into any type of invasive treatment or surgery the vet and owner should always have open and honest communication.
When your dog went in for that particular surgery did your vet say that it could be more extensive that what was suspected? Did your vet ask you if they had permission to continue with a more extensive and expensive treatment if necessary?
I’ve never had a vet treat any of my animals without giving me a heads up with the possible extenuating problems or difficulties. I’ve had vets call me during treatment to explain difficulties that had arose and ask if I would give permission to treat it and add it to the bill. I’ve also had vets that waived or reduced extra fees for procedures they had not included in their original estimate.
I’ve been extremely fortunate with the vets I’ve used over the years. I also notice a large difference in behaviour and attitude between small and large animal vets.
I’m sure my vet said something like “we’ll remove the lump but until we get in there we don’t know for sure what we’re dealing with” but I am pretty sure he did not give me an estimate for a double mastectomy; it felt like a small, disconnected lump. But I think it would have been irresponsible of him to not take the entire mammary gland, and certainly would not expect him to leave the surgery room to call me to see if it was ok.
In Shiloh’s case - I am confused but she dropped her cat off for a head xray? Presumably there was some reason to believe that something was wrong…? Was there no discussion about what they were looking for, and then what they would do when they found it? And not sure why she had to drop the cat off for that, instead of being available for that discussion. I feel like we’re missing a lot of information.
In the case of xrays being refused and done anyway - it really depends; there really isn’t enough information there, either. I think the client has the right not to pay for something they didn’t want done. I think the vet has an obligation to the patient to diagnose properly. Let’s say the cat had been hit by a car and the vet suspected broken bones; I am not sure how a good vet could send the cat home without the xrays, even if they know the client won’t pay.
Of course I think clients and vets should discuss, but just like a human doctor, the vet has some obligation to try to provide quality care for an animal.
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This is the important thing, to me. I’m not looking for someone cheap, I’m looking for someone who is very competent. In the end, that is the best use of my resources, and most kind (less stressful) to my animal.
Where I’ve thrown money (and precious time) away is on animals being seriously misdiagnosed (dog diagnosed and treated for allergies, when what he really had was hemangiosarcoma; a cat diagnosed with dehydration and put on prescription k/d, when what she really had was lymphosarcoma), so this is a sore spot with me.
Fortunately, both of my animals were eventually correctly diagnosed, and treated appropriately.
In your shoes I would have expected my vet to tell me of the possibility of possible extensive surgery and my permission to proceed if something more nefarious was found. A frank discussion about what could be possibly found and a ballpark figure of what it could cost would be the responsible thing to do.
If what happened to you had happened to another animal owner that could not afford the extra cost of removing the entire mammary gland and was suddenly surprised with the increased bill…then what?
In Shiloh’s case, she said she dropped her cat off to get a head xray and most likely knew what the bill was going to be when she returned to pick the cat up. Unless the problem found was immediately life threatening to the cat, I would assume that she would have wanted some time to think over what was wrong with her cat and decide which route of treatment to take when she could more easily afford the extra costs. To return to pick your cat up to discover the vet had taken all options and choices out of her control and proceeded with surgery without her knowing or her approval is flat out wrong and illegal.
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As I said, we probably had that discussion - my vet and I know each other well enough that I probably didn’t need him to cost out every possibility. But I am sure that if it was a brand new client they would have had more detailed discussion about what the options were. I do think that any time you send your animal into surgery you have to trust the judgment of the surgeon. A good vet should not ignore a serious issue and just close up the patient because it wasn’t on the cost sheet. How do you explain that to your client? (“Sorry, I did see a second mass but since we hadn’t given you an estimate I didn’t remove it. Do you want me to go back in and get that one too?”)
As for the head xray - we can only guess. No one just says “hey, can you xray my cat’s head? I’ll be back later.”
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That’s fine if you have that type of an ongoing relationship with your vet and if it entails a more serious situation.
This thread is about vets recommending or carrying out tests and procedures that are unnecessary and not approved by the owners.
I sincerely doubt that Shiloh told her vet to just X-ray her cat’s head and that she’d be back later. From knowing her through her posts on here I would think she had a discussion with the vet before leaving. Although she didn’t go into any detail as to why she had her cat x-rayed, bottom line is that was all that she had agreed on and all that should have happened. Instead her cat was put under anesthesia without her knowledge or consent for a procedure she did not approve at that time.
I’m sure she will come back and explain for those that would like to know more about her situation.
AND there is nothig to do if the liver is failing, vet just chasing the buck.
Talk about chasing the buck. There is a vet that I use, huge practice, lot’s of different vets from large to small animals. They will try to do every test under the sun for minor issues and they’re always way more than what other vets charge. I don’t use their small animal department, just large unless it’s an absolute emergency. One of our dogs a couple of years ago got kicked in the foot by a friend’s horse and ended up with some broken toes. We took him to that vet because they are open 24 hours a day. They wanted to do full x-rays of the leg and back, test for this and that and ended up with an estimate of over $600. Husband balked and just wanted them to cast it and give us some pain meds. So they did and the cast fell off 2 days later.
My own experience was I was using a new to me vet to do a float and I was quoted $250 or so. Get the bill and it was over $450! Plus there were services on there I didn’t ask for nor want, like vaccinations, hoof exam, other BS trying to pad the bill. I called the vet and had it out with a very snippy receptionist who also did the books I asked for a new bill without the added charges. Never got it so called again and had her ask the vet while I was on the phone if she quoted me $250 she did and confirmed. I had to call again and found out the vet had fired everyone and hired new staff. I guess she found out that Miss Snippy was adding charges to the bills.
