When can my mare go back to work?

[Ajierene]

[QUOTE=Dawn J-L;8102301]
There is a difference between how a mare and foal pair respond to degree of separation when they are in a comfortable space and free to choose for themselves, and when they are separated by human intervention. Foals can become quite frantic and climb, jump, or thrash themselves trying to get back to their dams. As others have mentioned foals can develop ulcers from relatively mild stress so that is another concern. Mares can become quite panicked if a foal starts calling to them and they are prevented from going to the foal. Many of my mares have been very tolerant of visitors interacting with their foals from day 1. I am quite sure that their tolerance would not extend to being removed from the immediate vicinity of their foals for any length of time for most of those mares prior to when the foal was 4-5 months old. While there are scenarios where an owner maybe able to fairly safely ride a mare with a foal at foot or restrained nearby, the risk of trying to do so with lesson riders seems way out of bounds, IMO. I can’t imagine liability insurance would be willing to cover an event related to such a scenario. I wish nothing but a positive outcome for the OP, the mare and the foal. Asking questions is how you figure these things out. :-)[/QUOTE]

It isn’t just human intervention but a difference in 10ft away and 10ft away PLUS an obstacle.

I witnessed on foal at a breeding farm having an absolute panic attack because a fence stood between foal and dam. Now, fence was there to help corral, if needed - so it was a semicircle of mostly fence, part was a run in shed. Two 15+ ft openings where it met the perimeter fence. Within this was the gate to bring them out of the pasture to the barn.

Well, mom had wandered through (as many did) and somehow when she got to the other side and started walking out into the field, baby stayed on the other side of the fence. Baby started having a panic attack. Mom looked like she was pretending she didn’t know baby while trying to whisper, “the opening is just 10ft behind you. Go through it and stop embarrassing me.”

Other than that, I concur…I just like excuses to tell that story because the whole scene was just really funny to me.

[DawnJL]

(forgive any formatting issues, COTH is being glitchy for me today) I totally agree. I suspect most of us breeders have similar stories of foals ending up on the wrong side of an obstacle.

[heronponie]

I’m removing my advice from this thread in light of a more recent one posted, illuminating how the OP handles these horses. Please sell them.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Lmabernathy;8099851]
Bought a mare back and Sept. and have been super happy with her. Great temperament, very willing, tolerant of beginners. She’s been doing local shows and placing well. Tuesday, I go to turn her out and there is a baby with her! Surprise!

Mom and colt are doing great, but mom is a lesson horse for me. Summer is coming soon and I was planning on using her over the summer. I know she won’t be able to show or trail ride until the colt is weaned, but do you think she could go in an hour lesson a few times a week.

If so, how do I go about starting to separate mom and baby where they won’t spaz out. My arena is surrounded by turnout paddocks and I have a round pen next to the arena. I know this isn’t ideal but it was a complete surprise. I either need to be able to use mom this summer or need to sell them both for a horse I can use. I really like mom and would like to keep her if possible. I haven’t made up my mind if I wan’t to keep the foal after weaning, if hes as nice as his mom sure. If he’s a terror for my lesson program (making mom crazy) I’m not attached to him at this point.[/QUOTE]

Sell them both.

[Lmabernathy]

Two weeks later you want to offer me advice? Thanks I appreciate that. Some people offered book suggestions on another thread those are helpful posts. I have never dealt with foals, I have heard all sorts of stories, like the Amish never quit using their mares to the other extreme of broodmares only have the job of having babies. They aren’t broke to ride, get their feet done. They get shots and eat and pop out foals. Now I am smart enough to know that those are two extreme examples. That’s why I’m asking what is a happy medium. I am asking for help and some people choose to berate me because I don’t know any better and have the nerve to ask? The horse world is small, we need to work together to enjoy it. I have posted several times this was a first foal and I have no idea what I’m doing, I admit that. I am trying to do things the right way by asking. If you want to dig up old posts for no other reason than to get the coth clan to get their pitchforks out and lynch me have at it. In the mean time if anyone would like to help, l’m listening and again I have no clue about foals any and all info is appreciated

[kdreger]

Back when I was in high school I bred my large pony mare (13.2). She was rode through most of her pregnancy and back to work a week after foaling. I had one other mare also. I started working the mare outside of the fence but in view of the filly for a few days then in a matter of weeks was off out of sight. The filly never worried and was happy enough to come up to the mare for her snack when we came back.

If you can set it up where the mare and foal can still see each other when the mare is worked that might be easiest. I would start by taking the mare away from the foal for grooming then increase the time apart.

The best think you could do for the foal is a playmate

[heronponie]

If your environment is unsafe for a foal, your program is unsuitable for a foal, you have no experience with foals and no evident desire to pick up a book about early foalhood to AVOID making mistakes before it’s too late, then the soundest advice I can give you is to just sell the pair as you originally intended.

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=JustJump;8100482]
Seriously? An instructor would think it necessary to ask this question? Guess ‘horsemanship’ isn’t one of your priorities?

Mom has another job now, and for the time being, it isn’t compatible with the one you had in mind.[/QUOTE]

The hot house world of sport horse breeding.:lol:

Mom could go back to work in probably a month, maybe a bit earlier, depending on how long they are a part. A half hour away from Mom isn’t going to hurt the mare or colt. A couple hours on a trail isn’t going to hurt anyone either.

Put the colt in stall, where he can’t get out. If Mom can’t see or hear him, she’ll may work better.

I’ve been around work horses for years. Hard to get excited over this anymore. It’s been done by many with no adverse affects to either. I’ve seen colts tied to the harness of mares plowing fields - it’s slow work & the colts are pretty well halter broke at the end of the day.

[Dressagelvr]

Put the colt in stall, where he can’t get out.

No. The stress of a forced separation is far too great for such a young foal.

[Christa_P]

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8119186]
No. The stress of a forced separation is far too great for such a young foal.[/QUOTE]

This will depend on the mare and foal in question. I had 2 foals out of the same mare with different sires. The first foal was fine when left in a stall. I could take the mare and work her, go for a trail ride etc. right from the start and neither one cared. The second foal was completely the opposite - the mare could not even be on the other side of the stall door with her head in the stall without him freaking out. In either case the mare didn’t care.

IMO, see how YOUR mare and foal react. If they are both calm and accepting, then go ahead and start her back in light work.

[Kyzteke]

Back when horses were used for farm work the mares often went back to work within a month of foaling. Foal either stayed loose or was left behind and fed at lunch.

If the set up is how I imagine it from the OP’s description, I would place the foal in one of the paddocks that are right next to the ring where they can clearly see on another. Make sure baby has nursed.

At first, keep the mare in the ring but close to that baby’s paddock; do your work at that end of the arena.

Then, over the course of several lessons, gradually start to work the mare farther & farther away, but always circling back to babe before leaving again.

I think you could start doing this when babe is 4-6 wks old. And 3 1hr. lessons a week of “Beginner” type lessons (most walk/trot) is not going to tax this mare if she is fed right.

As far as keeping baby in the arena during lessons, you might be surprised at how quickly babe just realizes mom is not going anywhere and lies down for a nap. Of course, this is assuming it’s just mare & babe in the arena – in other words, not a group lesson.

With any luck, baby will have inherited mom’s easy going temperament.

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;8119355]
Back when horses were used for farm work the mares often went back to work within a month of foaling. Foal either stayed loose or was left behind and fed at lunch.

If the set up is how I imagine it from the OP’s description, I would place the foal in one of the paddocks that are right next to the ring where they can clearly see on another. Make sure baby has nursed.

At first, keep the mare in the ring but close to that baby’s paddock; do your work at that end of the arena.

Then, over the course of several lessons, gradually start to work the mare farther & farther away, but always circling back to babe before leaving again.

I think you could start doing this when babe is 4-6 wks old. And 3 1hr. lessons a week of “Beginner” type lessons (most walk/trot) is not going to tax this mare if she is fed right.

As far as keeping baby in the arena during lessons, you might be surprised at how quickly babe just realizes mom is not going anywhere and lies down for a nap. Of course, this is assuming it’s just mare & babe in the arena – in other words, not a group lesson.

With any luck, baby will have inherited mom’s easy going temperament.[/QUOTE]

Great post, Kyzteke! Some very good, practical suggestions here.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Tradewind;8119367]
Great post, Kyzteke! Some very good, practical suggestions here.[/QUOTE]

thanks – I think it helps to realize that once upon a time horses actually worked for a living.

Everybody says “sell! Sell!” Like the market for a mare of unknown origin with a foal also of unknown parentage is so vast…

Seriously, folks – the OP is not torturing or harming either the mare or foal, and from her other posts it seems that she is giving them adequate food, handling, shelter, farrier care.

Why would we encourage her to sell they animals when the OP’s only “fault” is that she bought a mare for a job and then finds herself with a 2 for 1! She is asking for solutions where she can keep mare…and maybe even baby while still letting mare do her job – at least part- time.

She needs solid suggestions – and there are plenty of those. She is not asking for this mare to do something horrific nor is she asking the foal to endure some terrible torture.

TB mares are often separated from their babies for afew hours at a time while they are taken to be covered by the stallion…this is NOT a big drama.

To the OP – just don’t tie that baby fast for another few months or so, ok? They really are fragile. And if you play your cards right, in another 3 years you might have another lesson horse.

[Kimchi]

OP, I think it is great you are trying to learn more. There are lots of knowledgeable people on this forum, you could also talk to your vet as he has actually seen the mare and foal and can evaluate what course of action is best for all involved.

Another point to consider is the students. Even with the most sweet patient mares, things can get dangerous. I covered a lesson for a friend once. The mare was the oldest sweetest school horse you could imagine, but she was babysitting a foal in the paddock. when you would bring the mare back to the paddock the baby would rush the gate. So I went to wrangle the foal and make sure it didn’t escape. The mare got excited and knocked the young student over and stepped on her.

We were lucky she escaped with only a bruise.

So even though mare and baby seem very good tempered, It might not be safe for students. I am sure I don’t see the whole picture here, but it is something to consider when you make your decisions.

[Dressagelvr]

Back then, few cared about what was best for the horse. The horse was a machine and easily replaced when it failed.

There was no research on what stress does to a horse. Nobody talked about ulcers or the dozens of other issues horses have.

Those days were horrific for many animals and I would hope nobody looks to those days when considering how a horse should be cared for today.

[epowers]

I think the sudden push to sell is that this person revealed that she is hard tying her two week old foal in a nylon halter to sack him out with plastic bags, and said she was smacking said baby for mutual grooming behavior… which lends itself to people thinking that perhaps she’d be better off not raising a foal.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8120039]
Back then, few cared about what was best for the horse. The horse was a machine and easily replaced when it failed.

There was no research on what stress does to a horse. Nobody talked about ulcers or the dozens of other issues horses have.

Those days were horrific for many animals and I would hope nobody looks to those days when considering how a horse should be cared for today.[/QUOTE]

You want horrific, try being a donkey in Ethiopia.

I don’t think the OP is doing anything “horrific” to either mare or baby. NOT crazy about tying the foal fast, but it’s not like she’s beating any of them.

And why is everyone so sure if the OP sells them they will end up in a better place? There is absolutely ZERO guarantee that will happen.

Horses are very adaptable. I’ve seen a number of WB mares go to shows w/ a baby waiting for them back in the stall. Sounds like this baby is pretty sensible.

If the OP is willing to take it slow and introduce separation slowly in small increments, I’m thinking both mare & foal will do fine. Especially if baby is intergrated into a kind herd where he/she has buddies.

Of course – not yet. I wouldn’t not even start this (the separation part) till the foal is about 6 wks of age.